Jalen's Mom has a Message Regarding his Underage Consumption

#126
#126
volglass said:
Just remember, not all schools are the same! Just because Carson Newman does it that way doesn't mean UT does. UT's regulations are explicit in how inspection, search, and emergency access work. And your argument over who owns the property is way off. Ever heard of landlords?
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My argument is not way off. Carson-Newman owns Heritage Dorm. That is a fact. It's their property.
 
#127
#127
davethevol said:
Yep. It's just like when you stay at a hotel. No one can from the hotel can enter your room without your consent. This RA is misinformed and I do know 100% without a doubt what the law allows. And the fact that I've provided a link to what the occupancy laws are for every state and a video of police illegally entering while he's provided nothing other than the BS he's been taught are sad. People really need to understand their rights.
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I'm not misinformed dumbass. I'm not talking police if you would read. Apparently, that's what you need to do instead of Googling everything. Your argument is invalid. The 4th amendment ONLY APPLIES TO GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS. If I know a kid is smoking weed in a room, I have every right, as provided from a private university such as CN, to perform a room search. That amendment only applies to private property. Our dorms are not private property to residents. The school owns the dorm and will not tolerate illegal substances in the rooms.
 
#129
#129
HardKnoxVol said:
I'm not misinformed dumbass. I'm not talking police if you would read. Apparently, that's what you need to do instead of Googling everything. Your argument is invalid. The 4th amendment ONLY APPLIES TO GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS. If I know a kid is smoking weed in a room, I have every right, as provided from a private university such as CN, to perform a room search. That amendment only applies to private property. Our dorms are not private property to residents. The school owns the dorm and will not tolerate illegal substances in the rooms.
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And you just said the magic words- private university!!!!
 
#130
#130
HardKnoxVol said:
The room a person occupies is not their room. It belongs to Carson-Newman, who reserves the right to deem whatever they want as an illegal activity on campus. The 4th amendment only applies to government officials. Yes, they can't enter without a warrant. However, if they see an illegal substance in plain view, then they are allowed to search without a warrant. And this happens most of the time we bust a guy because they are dumb and have it out in the open. The 4th only applies to private property that you own and you exclusively own it. They do not own the dorm rooms/apartments.
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It doesn't matter who owns it. If someone is a resident of the dorm, that is LEGALLY considered their home under the law, and it is no different than walking into someone's house uninvited.

I wish I knew a resident at that school, because I'd have them video record themselves telling an RA not to enter the room, and if the RA entered then your school would get a name change after the lawsuit and big payday.
 
#131
#131
davethevol said:
You're wrong. Yes, you have people sign documents saying you have the authority to come in. Guess what? Those are not legally binding and if you enter when a student tells you that you can't come in, then you can potentially go to jail or get sued.

You should check out this link. It might save you in the future, because someone gave you bad advice and did not inform you of what the law states. State Laws on Landlord
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College students living in dorms aren't considered to be tenants and RAs aren't landlords. They don't have the same rights as people living off campus.
 
#135
#135
davethevol said:
It doesn't matter who owns it. If someone is a resident of the dorm, that is LEGALLY considered their home under the law, and it is no different than walking into someone's house uninvited.

I wish I knew a resident at that school, because I'd have them video record themselves telling an RA not to enter the room, and if the RA entered then your school would get a name change after the lawsuit and big payday.
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No it is not. On holiday breaks, such as Christmas break, students are not allowed to stay in the dorms unless they are an athlete that is still active during December. Even our international students have to go home, unless they have a valid reason. Residents are not tenants.

This was taken from school training.com
"As a general matter, resident assistants; dorm supervisors, and the like are not bound by the 4th Amendment in the same manner as police officers. They generally are operating pursuant to a provision in the university/college handbook which allows for the health and welfare check, which, at the same time, diminishes or eliminates the expectation of privacy of the dorm resident. It is important to note that resident assistants/dorm supervisors in a private college/university are not bound by the 4th Amendment since they are not government actors. Thus, in the private university setting there is no constitutional issue when dealing with a seizure by a resident assistant of dorm supervisor."
 
#138
#138
HardKnoxVol said:
Yes you can. The 4th amendment only applies to an unreasonable search and seizure. Colleges cannot make rules up that go against some type of federal law. It couldn't be allowed. As an RA, if we have a justified reason to enter a room (suspicion of illegal substances, rape, etc) then we can enter. The room a person occupies is not their room. It belongs to Carson-Newman, who reserves the right to deem whatever they want as an illegal activity on campus. The 4th amendment only applies to government officials. Yes, they can't enter without a warrant. However, if they see an illegal substance in plain view, then they are allowed to search without a warrant. And this happens most of the time we bust a guy because they are dumb and have it out in the open. The 4th only applies to private property that you own and you exclusively own it. They do not own the dorm rooms/apartments. Carson-Newman does. Like I said, we're not unfair. If they are not in their room, we will call them and give them a 10 minute notice that we are about to search their room and give them the option to confess/show up. If they are in the room, we knock and announce who we are. If they refuse to open up, then we have the right to master key in (only applies for room searches). This does not break the law in any manner because we are not government officials for one, and the room that they are most likely hiding an illegal substance is the school's, not their's.
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Have you been taken to court on this matter? Simply because the police department is present with you during your knock-raids doesn't automatically mean it's legal. You could very well be right, but you speak as though you're a justice of the Supreme Court and your 8 hour training emparts all legal knowings upon you. Good grief
 
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#141
#141
I'm sorry, I was taking about UT and told you that there were differences between schools. I only responded to you because you seemed overly defensive about your ability to search as an RA. In any case, I'm glad I didn't have you as an RA!
 
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#142
#142
VolFan4Life87 said:
Have you been taken to court on this matter? Simply because the police department is present with you during your knock-raids doesn't automatically mean it's legal. You could very well be right, but you speak as though you're a justice of the Supreme Court and your 8 hour training emparts all legal knowings upon you. Good grief
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No I'm not. I know that residence life is not going to act outside of the law. I'm refuting this because this guy thinks I'm illegally doing things as RA. I'm just doing my job and upholding the rules that the university provides. That's my job.
 
#144
#144
volglass said:
I'm sorry, I was taking about UT and told you that there were differences between schools. I only responded to you because you seemed overly defensive about your ability to search as an RA. In any case, I'm glad I didn't have you as an RA!
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I'm a relaxed RA. Honestly, I am. However, when people get on here and tell me how to do my job at my school, then I am going to refute that.
 
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#146
#146
HardKnoxVol said:
No I'm not. I know that residence life is not going to act outside of the law. I'm refuting this because this guy thinks I'm illegally doing things as RA. I'm just doing my job and upholding the rules that the university provides. That's my job.
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Has a student every told you that you can't enter and then you entered?
 
#147
#147
HardKnoxVol said:
I'm a relaxed RA. Honestly, I am. However, when people get on here and tell me how to do my job at my school, then I am going to refute that.
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You're the one that came here talking about yourself and your school. If you can't handle the reality of the situation, then that's on you. The fact that you're having meltdowns instead of actually looking outside your university's "policies" and truly learning what that law states says a lot about you as a person. You should make good use of your time their and talk to someone that is a law professor. Educate yourself instead of regurgitating what you've been told.
 
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#148
#148
davethevol said:
Has a student every told you that you can't enter and then you entered?
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How many times do I have to tell you? The 4th amendment only applies to unreasonable search and seizures from government officials. I've never had anyone tell me no. We give them a notice if they are or are not there either way. I'm just telling you what the rules are from CN. I also know that CN can't make up rules that would make them violate federal laws.

From criminal.findlaw.com:
"Not every search and seizure that is scrutinized in state and federal court raises a Fourth Amendment issue. The Fourth Amendment only protects against searches and seizures conducted by the government or pursuant to governmental direction." Once again, we are not government officials. Our policies state that if we have any suspicion of an illegal substance in a room, then we can search no matter what they say. It's been like that for years. CN works with local police, so they know how it all works. We are not doing anything illegal for the last time. Dear god
 
#149
#149
HardKnoxVol said:
No I'm not. I know that residence life is not going to act outside of the law. I'm refuting this because this guy thinks I'm illegally doing things as RA. I'm just doing my job and upholding the rules that the university provides. That's my job.
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And I, as someone not involved at all in this discussion, am not attacking your actions. But "rules" are not laws, and sometimes said rules conflict with binding laws. You're following the rules set forth by your organization and its up to the rule makers at your place of employment to consult legal counsel to determine their legality. I doubt a place as big as UT did not seek legal counsel, but even so there are always differing interpretations of laws.

Do as you please, I'm certainly in no position to direct anyone but your posts come across as though you know with scientific certainty you are acting in full accordance with the law when in fact, 2 years from now and a lawsuit later your rules could change. Maybe just say your rules state such and they're legal as far as you know, or atleast have yet to be contested.
 
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#150
#150
davethevol said:
You're the one that came here talking about yourself and your school. If you can't handle the reality of the situation, then that's on you. The fact that you're having meltdowns instead of actually looking outside your university's "policies" and truly learning what that law states says a lot about you as a person. You should make good use of your time their and talk to someone that is a law professor. Educate yourself instead of regurgitating what you've been told.
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For the last time, I've been talking about Carson-Newman. I haven't said anything about an outside school. You're the one that came on here and said that I'm doing my job wrong at Carson-Newman. I am currently getting my education in communication and know quite a bit about the law. I work for Carson-Newman. I've been an RA for 2 years now, going on 3. Please tell me how you know everything about my school's policies.
 
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