It's the officiating, stupid

#1
O

oUTraged

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
154
Likes
392
#1
I know I’ll get roasted for this post. But the numbers don’t lie. And please keep in mind I’m posting this as a bit of tongue-in-cheek. But, looking at the stats from this past season, you can see why the Lady Vols kept showing their frustrations on the court. The Lady Vols had 94 more fouls called against them than their opponents. Conversely, South Carolina had 178 more fouls called against their opponents. In the stats below, the numbers for each team show the numbers of fouls called against them, the second number is the number of fouls called against their opponents and the final number is the disparity of the two numbers. The SEC office should take notice

Team PF-OPF DIF

South Carolina 431-609 +178

LSU 545-669 +124

Vandy 465-557 +92

Ole Miss 604-694 +90

Missouri 479-565 +86

Texas 584-629 +45

Alabama 531-573 +42

Kentucky 504-545 +41

Miss State 490-527 +37

Florida 637-668 +31

Texas A&M 504-493 -11

Georgia 553-519 -34

Auburn 544-485 – 59

Tennessee 578-484 -94
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcannon1 and savannahfan
#3
#3
Women's refs in the SEC have always been biased. It is, and has been, a huge problem... and at times makes games unwatchable.

Whether you believe this particular stat proves it or not, I don't really care. I have seen what I have seen over the course of decades.
 
  • Like
Reactions: savannahfan and volsagain
#4
#4
BigOrangeMojo said:
No its not

Team plays more possessions, shoots (and misses) a ton of 3s, and is undisciplined AF....
Click to expand...
If its your opinion that we played more undisciplined than other teams, fine, I accept that. But saying the number of possessions and number of threes affected the number of offensive and defensive fouls called is comparing apples to oranges. They're just not the same.
 
#5
#5
oUTraged said:
I know I’ll get roasted for this post.
Click to expand...
No roasting is called for. The numbers are what they are.
What’s missing? Some possible explanations for how some of those numbers came to be. I will very likely get roasted…

Dawn Staley is uncommonly good at working the refs. Her players are well disciplined. Those two facts account for some of the delta between fouls called for and against So. Car. How much?

UT helter skelter defense and hurried offense and visible lack of discipline accounted for some of the fouls called. How much?

ETA- From the OP data, it looks like more fouls were called on
Ole Miss, TX, Florida
 
  • Like
Reactions: brittannica, Smallvol#1, chuckiepoo and 1 other person
#7
#7
oUTraged said:
If its your opinion that we played more undisciplined than other teams, fine, I accept that. But saying the number of possessions and number of threes affected the number of offensive and defensive fouls called is comparing apples to oranges. They're just not the same.
Click to expand...

Extremely basic knowledge if you shoot a bunch of 3s, you wont get as many fouls called in your favor as if you play inside or attack the rim. Especially when the other team doesnt even run out to defend the 3 because they know you cant shoot.

Basic math if you play more defensive possessions, you will have more fouls called on you than if you played fewer possessions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brittannica, Smallvol#1, 1reVOLver and 1 other person
#8
#8
RespectAPA said:
Playing more possessions isn't going to flip your PF-oPF to negative.
Click to expand...

Man, some of you all are dense. Our possesions are far more likely to end with a (lightly contested) jumper or turnover. Opponents possessions are far more likely to end with something in the paint...

Not even getting into aggressive style of play/lack of discipline...
 
  • Like
Reactions: VOLnBama01
#9
#9
I don't disagree with you, but so many other factors can get to these numbers.
SEC should take note most definitely.
Factors include - full court press, refs themselves and crews, fast moving offense.
3 point shooting vs motion offense that takes it to the hoop, etc. There will always be discrepancies between crews.
Coaching and adjustments must also factor into this. IOWs you will see more fouls in a Street ball game than you will in a College game.
Reffing is a fine art and most Refs don't even have the canvas to paint them on.
Funny but there is also more than likely a gender discrepancy.
 
#10
#10
Sudden Impact said:
I don't disagree with you, but so many other factors can get to these numbers.
SEC should take note most definitely.
Factors include - full court press, refs themselves and crews, fast moving offense.
3 point shooting vs motion offense that takes it to the hoop, etc. There will always be discrepancies between crews.
Coaching and adjustments must also factor into this. IOWs you will see more fouls in a Street ball game than you will in a College game.
Reffing is a fine art and most Refs don't even have the canvas to paint them on.
Funny but there is also more than likely a gender discrepancy.
Click to expand...
I always believed in a gender discrepancy 😀
 
#11
#11
I can see both sides of the argument, but just the sheer difference in fouls vs opponents' fouls is pretty eye opening compared to the other teams. I watched a few games and the refs were horrible.
 
#13
#13
This team didn’t play defense, their opponents had a layup line every game. When you don’t give up fort and move your feet in defense you’ll end up out of position, reaching, grabbing, etc. last years team was horrible, had nothing to do with officiating
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1reVOLver and brittannica
#14
#14
oUTraged said:
I know I’ll get roasted for this post. But the numbers don’t lie. And please keep in mind I’m posting this as a bit of tongue-in-cheek. But, looking at the stats from this past season, you can see why the Lady Vols kept showing their frustrations on the court. The Lady Vols had 94 more fouls called against them than their opponents. Conversely, South Carolina had 178 more fouls called against their opponents. In the stats below, the numbers for each team show the numbers of fouls called against them, the second number is the number of fouls called against their opponents and the final number is the disparity of the two numbers. The SEC office should take notice

Team PF-OPF DIF

South Carolina 431-609 +178

LSU 545-669 +124

Vandy 465-557 +92

Ole Miss 604-694 +90

Missouri 479-565 +86

Texas 584-629 +45

Alabama 531-573 +42

Kentucky 504-545 +41

Miss State 490-527 +37

Florida 637-668 +31

Texas A&M 504-493 -11

Georgia 553-519 -34

Auburn 544-485 – 59

Tennessee 578-484 -94
Click to expand...
Could be because we sucked
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1reVOLver and brittannica
#16
#16
There are many factors that go into why some teams shoot more foul shots than other teams. If I was to prioritize what those factors are, bad refereeing would be pretty far down the list. Aggressive slashing and attacking the basket, compared to jump shooters. Good defensive fundamentals versus bad defensive fundamentals. Team speed. Just to name a few.

I just pulled up the statistics from the Tennessee South Carolina game this earlier this year. South Carolina took 20 free throws to Tennessee’s five. But, South Carolina took 10 three-point shots compared to Tennessee’s 40. Here is a picture of the shot selection. It’s only one game, but it just shows how a team’s style of play often dictates the foul situation.

I am generally not one to put the blame on the officiating. (although, after both UConn games this weekend it was difficult not to.) very few people are able to watch their preferred team in a game and judge officiating objectively, which is why you never hear people say., “man, the refs screwed our opponent.”

1775693025050.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: LVBB_Legacy, glv98 and chuckiepoo
#17
#17
Excessive fouling is a known bug of high pressure systems. It's listed as one of the reasons 40 Minutes from Hell fell out of favor.

It's common sense that the harder you guard, trapping and pressing, and the longer you guard, full court versus half court, the more likely you are to foul. Also more likely against better teams when the trap gets beat and you're forced out of position and scrambling into a numbers mismatch.

Excessive fouls caused by defensive pressure also cause extra clock stoppages, which harms the system's intent of wearing opponents down. Another way the overbaked system contradicts itself.

Offensively as previously pointed out, three chunking schemes like the system calls for are far less likely to draw fouls than those who charge the rim.

None of that is as much fun as the world wide conspiracy of refs against Tennessee but it really is common sense
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1reVOLver and spojo13
#18
#18
glv98 said:
Excessive fouling is a known bug of high pressure systems. It's listed as one of the reasons 40 Minutes from Hell fell out of favor.

It's common sense that the harder you guard, trapping and pressing, and the longer you guard, full court versus half court, the more likely you are to foul. Also more likely against better teams when the trap gets beat and you're forced out of position and scrambling into a numbers mismatch.

Excessive fouls caused by defensive pressure also cause extra clock stoppages, which harms the system's intent of wearing opponents down. Another way the overbaked system contradicts itself.

Offensively as previously pointed out, three chunking schemes like the system calls for are far less likely to draw fouls than those who charge the rim.

None of that is as much fun as the world wide conspiracy of refs against Tennessee but it really is common sense
Click to expand...
I remember when Mitchell at Kentucky had his players playing high pressure defense. They ended up getting called for constant fouls. Sometimes it felt like they fouled so much that refs couldn’t catch all of them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: chuckiepoo and glv98
#19
#19
I think every girl should watch Mikayla Blakes and try to copy when she drives to the basket. Right after she shoots she fake falls to the floor and gets more and1s than anyone in basketball. She falls down just about every time she drives touched or not its just natural for her and she gets those fouls called. It looks like she's been practicing that all her life. Nobody hits the floor as much as she does and she shoots the most free throws in the SEC and ball hog Cotie McMahon is 2nd in FTs attempted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: volcs, lvocd and chuckiepoo
#20
#20
KTrain said:
I think every girl should watch Mikayla Blakes and try to copy when she drives to the basket. Right after she shoots she fake falls to the floor and gets more and1s than anyone in basketball. She falls down just about every time she drives touched or not its just natural for her and she gets those fouls called. It looks like she's been practicing that all her life. Nobody hits the floor as much as she does and she shoots the most free throws in the SEC and ball hog Cotie McMahon is 2nd in FTs attempted.
Click to expand...
WNBA players do the same thing Caitlin Clark is particularly bad about launching herself at the end of every drive, it’s part of the reason she stays hurt all the time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: chuckiepoo
#21
#21
oUTraged said:
I know I’ll get roasted for this post. But the numbers don’t lie. And please keep in mind I’m posting this as a bit of tongue-in-cheek. But, looking at the stats from this past season, you can see why the Lady Vols kept showing their frustrations on the court. The Lady Vols had 94 more fouls called against them than their opponents. Conversely, South Carolina had 178 more fouls called against their opponents. In the stats below, the numbers for each team show the numbers of fouls called against them, the second number is the number of fouls called against their opponents and the final number is the disparity of the two numbers. The SEC office should take notice

Team PF-OPF DIF

South Carolina 431-609 +178

LSU 545-669 +124

Vandy 465-557 +92

Ole Miss 604-694 +90

Missouri 479-565 +86

Texas 584-629 +45

Alabama 531-573 +42

Kentucky 504-545 +41

Miss State 490-527 +37

Florida 637-668 +31

Texas A&M 504-493 -11

Georgia 553-519 -34

Auburn 544-485 – 59

Tennessee 578-484 -94
Click to expand...
showing these stats in a vacuum..... well what can we take from these stats..... does coaching have anything to do with it? does style of play? for example what if a team goes hard to the bucket as a primary style vs. an outside game..... would one expect fouls automatically be even for both teams
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1reVOLver, lvocd and spojo13
#22
#22
KTrain said:
I think every girl should watch Mikayla Blakes and try to copy when she drives to the basket. Right after she shoots she fake falls to the floor and gets more and1s than anyone in basketball. She falls down just about every time she drives touched or not its just natural for her and she gets those fouls called. It looks like she's been practicing that all her life. Nobody hits the floor as much as she does and she shoots the most free throws in the SEC and ball hog Cotie McMahon is 2nd in FTs attempted.
Click to expand...

Even more than the fake falls I hope every player we get develops the automatic scoop shot on layups. The soft touch Blakes has while shooting in a way that is nearly impossible for defenders to guard and stop, is what makes her most dangerous on drives. It’s a well practiced, brilliant habit for her.
 
  • Like
Reactions: chuckiepoo, glv98 and 1reVOLver
New Posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

Advertisement



Back
Top