It Just Meant More: 2001 Florida vs. Tennessee

#3
#3
dduncan4163 said:


Really worth a listen. Great stuff
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That game was played at the end of the year, which is when that game should have always been played. And had it been that way for the past 30 years, I think that changes the entire dynamic of the series. Tennessee NOT having to go to the Swamp in September and Florida having to go to Neyland in November would have really turned things in our favor.

If there's one thing I wish Fulmer would fight the SEC hardest on, it's that.
 
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#4
#4
GregAmsler said:
That game was played at the end of the year, which is when that game should have always been played. And had it been that way for the past 30 years, I think that changes the entire dynamic of the series. Tennessee NOT having to go to the Swamp in September and Florida having to go to Neyland in November would have really turned things in our favor.

If there's one thing I wish Fulmer would fight the SEC hardest on, it's that.
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I used to be a big believer in that theory, especially after we won the 2001 game, but as time has gone on I'm not sure. Spurrier was simply a better coach than Phil. Spurrier never had a talent advantage over Tennessee in those days; in fact, in some years, Tennessee had more talent. I don't think Tennessee lost a disproportionate share of those games because we had to go to The Swamp in September.

If anything, playing that game in November every year would have ratcheted up the pressure even more. It was already high to begin with in September, and Spurrier was always better at dealing with pressure than Phil.
 
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#7
#7
When the going get's tough the little Steve's of the world just take their ball and go home. Losing to Tennessee was just much for Steve to handle in 2001. Plus he was a 04 against Lyle, that speaks volume on what he became in the end. He always reminded me of the kid yelling insults at the rest of the neighbor hood kids while standing behind his mom.
 
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#8
#8
05_never_again said:
I used to be a big believer in that theory, especially after we won the 2001 game, but as time has gone on I'm not sure. Spurrier was simply a better coach than Phil. Spurrier never had a talent advantage over Tennessee in those days; in fact, in some years, Tennessee had more talent. I don't think Tennessee lost a disproportionate share of those games because we had to go to The Swamp in September.

If anything, playing that game in November every year would have ratcheted up the pressure even more. It was already high to begin with in September, and Spurrier was always better at dealing with pressure than Phil.
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Agreed and most people outside of Tennessee would agree as well. With the exception of this game and the 1998 game when we had individuals (Al Wilson in 98 and Travis Stephens in 01) put the team on their back and we carried the day, Spurrier’s teams came and played confidently and aggressively and we came out tentative and lost. “Efficiently inefficient” is what one of those guys called it. That’s the hallmark of Fulmer teams.
 
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#9
#9
I also agree that Clausen was a pretty average UT QB. He did do enough to win some games but he was coming behind a couple of great ones. He seemed pretty cocky, but they could have just been his haircut.:)
 
#10
#10
Frozevol said:
Agreed and most people outside of Tennessee would agree as well. With the exception of this game and the 1998 game when we had individuals (Al Wilson in 98 and Travis Stephens in 01) put the team on their back and we carried the day, Spurrier’s teams came and played confidently and aggressively and we came out tentative and lost. “Efficiently inefficient” is what one of those guys called it. That’s the hallmark of Fulmer teams.
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I miss those 10+ win seasons, but I’m probably an outlier.
 
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#13
#13
05_never_again said:
I used to be a big believer in that theory, especially after we won the 2001 game, but as time has gone on I'm not sure. Spurrier was simply a better coach than Phil. Spurrier never had a talent advantage over Tennessee in those days; in fact, in some years, Tennessee had more talent. I don't think Tennessee lost a disproportionate share of those games because we had to go to The Swamp in September.

If anything, playing that game in November every year would have ratcheted up the pressure even more. It was already high to begin with in September, and Spurrier was always better at dealing with pressure than Phil.
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I'm talking about the entirety of the series. And moving forward.

Florida also won because of some incredible breaks in many games...the Gaffney "catch" (after a bogus 6 man on the LOS call on UT's prior possession kept UT from just icing the clock)...the bogus roughing the passer call in 2006 that kept UT from icing the game on a pick 6 by Morley...the winning FG for Florida in 2014 that should have been a delay of game. Also, the 4th and 14 in 2015 and the hail mary in 2017 were games where a shift in weather advantage would've likely made a one-play difference...and those games were lost on one play. All five of those games I just mentioned were.

It's ridiculous that Tennessee has to go down to Florida in September, but they never have to go to Knoxville, Missouri, or Lexington in November...and UT does have to go to Lexington and Missouri in November. In other words, Tennessee has to go to the most extreme heat and the most extreme cold for road games, whereas Florida never has to be cold and is at home in its own heat.
 
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#14
#14
GregAmsler said:
I'm talking about the entirety of the series. And moving forward.

Florida also won because of some incredible breaks in many games...the Gaffney "catch" (after a bogus 6 man on the LOS call on UT's prior possession kept UT from just icing the clock)...the bogus roughing the passer call in 2006 that kept UT from icing the game on a pick 6 by Morley...the winning FG for Florida in 2014 that should have been a delay of game. Also, the 4th and 14 in 2015 and the hail mary in 2017 were games where a shift in weather advantage would've likely made a one-play difference...and those games were lost on one play. All five of those games I just mentioned were.

It's ridiculous that Tennessee has to go down to Florida in September, but they never have to go to Knoxville, Missouri, or Lexington in November...and UT does have to go to Lexington and Missouri in November. In other words, Tennessee has to go to the most extreme heat and the most extreme cold for road games, whereas Florida never has to be cold and is at home in its own heat.
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Those games you mentioned were absolutely not lost on one play; in fact, no game is won or lost on a single play. The Gaffney "catch" occurred on 2nd down and there were 20+ seconds left with the ball inside our 5. 2015 was caused by a complete change in defensive scheme in the 2nd half and Butch not going for 2. And that stuff tends to balance out as well. Tennessee really "shouldn't" have won the 2004 game; the unsportsmanlike flag on Dallas Baker on Florida's final drive was cheap.

It isn't like Gainesville in September is that much hotter than Knoxville in September anyway. One of the most sweltering environments I've been in my entire life - football game or otherwise - was the 2016 Florida game in Knoxville. If you think Florida would have struggled against us in November because it would have been in the 40s for a bunch of those games...I mean, it would have been cold for our guys too. It isn't like we have a ton of guys from Wisconsin on our team.
 
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#15
#15
The advantage for UT Playing in November is that a bunch of gator players always get suspended after our game and they end sucking the next few games. The never got suspended before our game.
 
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#18
#18
GregAmsler said:
It's ridiculous that Tennessee has to go down to Florida in September, but they never have to go to Knoxville, Missouri, or Lexington in November...and UT does have to go to Lexington and Missouri in November. In other words, Tennessee has to go to the most extreme heat and the most extreme cold for road games, whereas Florida never has to be cold and is at home in its own heat.
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Yes I've noticed that, too. Maybe a handful of times since 1990 when Spurrier got there, has Florida had to travel to a cold conference opponent during the cold days of the season. They'd typically play Vandy on the first Saturday of November, and SCAR the following Saturday, and that was about as cold as it got for them. Missouri came along and sort of messed that up a little bit, but they do a good job scheduling those games to their advantage. Pretty impressive.
 
#21
#21
PhoenixAZVol said:
I agree that the timing and location of the games didn’t have much of an impact but you and your gator brothers would be lying if you didn’t acknowledge that Florida has gotten more ‘breaks’ in this series and that Tennessee has handed you guys at least three games on a silver platter. Only the worst coach in our 120+ year history could somehow find a way to lose games that we had a 90% chance of winning in the fourth quarter. A significant number of your wins were more the result of our stupidity more so than you guys simply outplaying us. In recent memory 2014, 2015 and 2017 come to mind. Yes, there were also hard fought games where you DID outplay us but too often we are reminded of our complete meltdowns where we basically said “here Florida, take the ball and win this game”.
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For sake of discussion, I’m not going to argue with you except only to say that it’s been who Tennessee is.

Example: the Franks Hail Mary. In all my time watching Florida football, that’s never happened to Florida. I don’t see that in other games across the country either except once in a blue moon. The one everyone remembers is Kordell Stewart against Michigan. And that was a true Hail Mary. How often can a WR get behind everyone with so little time left from so far away?

That happened to Tennessee three times in the last 4 seasons under two different coaches.

2016-Georgia where Tennessee won with their own Hail Mary.
2017- florida
2019-BYU

Handing things on a silver platter and making epic mistakes has not been exclusive to the Florida game for Tennessee.

It’s not been magical forces of bad luck, but something Tennessee consistently does
 
#22
#22
05_never_again said:
Those games you mentioned were absolutely not lost on one play; in fact, no game is won or lost on a single play. The Gaffney "catch" occurred on 2nd down and there were 20+ seconds left with the ball inside our 5. 2015 was caused by a complete change in defensive scheme in the 2nd half and Butch not going for 2. And that stuff tends to balance out as well. Tennessee really "shouldn't" have won the 2004 game; the unsportsmanlike flag on Dallas Baker on Florida's final drive was cheap.

It isn't like Gainesville in September is that much hotter than Knoxville in September anyway. One of the most sweltering environments I've been in my entire life - football game or otherwise - was the 2016 Florida game in Knoxville. If you think Florida would have struggled against us in November because it would have been in the 40s for a bunch of those games...I mean, it would have been cold for our guys too. It isn't like we have a ton of guys from Wisconsin on our team.
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Those games absolutely come out differently if one play is changed.

1) The Gaffney game: Tennessee had the ball with a 3rd down and if we get a 1st down, we can ice the clock. Travis Henry runs for a 1st down. Ballgame. But wait...Eric Parker is flagged for being off the LOS, resulting in a penalty, Tennessee is backed up, fails to get the 1st down, and has to punt. Come to find out later, Parker asked the official, "am I good?", official said, "Yes." A different official threw the flag and the "Yes" official failed to overrule him. Change that ONE PLAY, and Tennessee wins. That flag should never have been thrown, but since it was, it should've been picked up.

2) The 4th & 14 game in 2015: obviously, if Tennessee stops that one play, they win.

3) The Hail Mary game in 2017...same.

4) The 2006 game: Florida is down 6 late in the 4th quarter and has to score to win. Dee Morley picks off Leak and returns it for 6, icing the game. But the refs call a roughing the passer on UT because Justin Harrell grazed Leak's helmet trying to block the pass as Leak let it go. Florida gets to keep the ball and ends up scoring. Take away that penalty on that ONE PLAY and Tennessee wins.

5) The winning FG in 2014 was kicked after the play clock expired. If DOG is called, that's a very long FG. It already was.

So yes, all of those games turned on ONE PLAY. And the point is, if a game is close enough to turn on one play, an advantage one way or another in terms of home field or, for the sake of this discussion, weather, would likely change the outcome.

It's just silly that the SEC refuses to make Florida play in the cold.
 
#23
#23
GregAmsler said:
Those games absolutely come out differently if one play is changed.

1) The Gaffney game: Tennessee had the ball with a 3rd down and if we get a 1st down, we can ice the clock. Travis Henry runs for a 1st down. Ballgame. But wait...Eric Parker is flagged for being off the LOS, resulting in a penalty, Tennessee is backed up, fails to get the 1st down, and has to punt. Come to find out later, Parker asked the official, "am I good?", official said, "Yes." A different official threw the flag and the "Yes" official failed to overrule him. Change that ONE PLAY, and Tennessee wins. That flag should never have been thrown, but since it was, it should've been picked up.

2) The 4th & 14 game in 2015: obviously, if Tennessee stops that one play, they win.

3) The Hail Mary game in 2017...same.

4) The 2006 game: Florida is down 6 late in the 4th quarter and has to score to win. Dee Morley picks off Leak and returns it for 6, icing the game. But the refs call a roughing the passer on UT because Justin Harrell grazed Leak's helmet trying to block the pass as Leak let it go. Florida gets to keep the ball and ends up scoring. Take away that penalty on that ONE PLAY and Tennessee wins.

5) The winning FG in 2014 was kicked after the play clock expired. If DOG is called, that's a very long FG. It already was.

So yes, all of those games turned on ONE PLAY. And the point is, if a game is close enough to turn on one play, an advantage one way or another in terms of home field or, for the sake of this discussion, weather, would likely change the outcome.

It's just silly that the SEC refuses to make Florida play in the cold.
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About each of those games, ask yourself why we were in a position where so much hinged on "that one play." Hint...it's because the game wasn't won or lost on any one play.

The 4th & 14 conversion in the 2015 game...I mean come on, it was absolutely ridiculous we were even in that position to begin with. We gave Florida the ball back with a 27-14 lead and just over 10 minutes to play. Florida didn't close that gap on one play or even one offensive series. They came back (I mean, we let them come back) and closed the gap, resulting in a situation where "that one play" mattered. The 2017 Hail Mary game...did you forget Butch's play calling from the one-inch line earlier in that game?

I don't remember all the specific details about every single Florida loss, but I'm sure you can do the same thing in those games too.
 
#24
#24
GregAmsler said:
Those games absolutely come out differently if one play is changed.

1) The Gaffney game: Tennessee had the ball with a 3rd down and if we get a 1st down, we can ice the clock. Travis Henry runs for a 1st down. Ballgame. But wait...Eric Parker is flagged for being off the LOS, resulting in a penalty, Tennessee is backed up, fails to get the 1st down, and has to punt. Come to find out later, Parker asked the official, "am I good?", official said, "Yes." A different official threw the flag and the "Yes" official failed to overrule him. Change that ONE PLAY, and Tennessee wins. That flag should never have been thrown, but since it was, it should've been picked up.

2) The 4th & 14 game in 2015: obviously, if Tennessee stops that one play, they win.

3) The Hail Mary game in 2017...same.

4) The 2006 game: Florida is down 6 late in the 4th quarter and has to score to win. Dee Morley picks off Leak and returns it for 6, icing the game. But the refs call a roughing the passer on UT because Justin Harrell grazed Leak's helmet trying to block the pass as Leak let it go. Florida gets to keep the ball and ends up scoring. Take away that penalty on that ONE PLAY and Tennessee wins.

5) The winning FG in 2014 was kicked after the play clock expired. If DOG is called, that's a very long FG. It already was.

So yes, all of those games turned on ONE PLAY. And the point is, if a game is close enough to turn on one play, an advantage one way or another in terms of home field or, for the sake of this discussion, weather, would likely change the outcome.

It's just silly that the SEC refuses to make Florida play in the cold.
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I hate break it to you, but a lot of games have an outcome that can change if you change one play.

I can change about 10 different "1 play" plays in the 1998 game and Florida wins. It's a poor rationale. As the other poster put it, it came down to one play because of something you failed to do in the 150 other plays that were run during the game. All the games you listed were like that.

As far as the cold goes, this is just petty. We're in the SOUTHEASTERN conference. It's warm in the South.

1. Three of the schools that have almost a guarantee on cold weather in the late Fall are traditionally poor teams. Kentucky and Vanderbilt. And you may not know, but Florida used to play Kentucky every year in November before divisional play. Then, there is Missouri. And Florida's struggled with them.

2. We're going to play 8 games in the state of Florida every year as is. We're going to play a 9th in the state of Florida when FSU is a road game. Not a whole lot of room to get a "cold weather game" in there and if it was Vanderbilt or Kentucky, you'd complain about that too.
 
#25
#25
05_never_again said:
About each of those games, ask yourself why we were in a position where so much hinged on "that one play." Hint...it's because the game wasn't won or lost on any one play.

The 4th & 14 conversion in the 2015 game...I mean come on, it was absolutely ridiculous we were even in that position to begin with. We gave Florida the ball back with a 27-14 lead and just over 10 minutes to play. Florida didn't close that gap on one play or even one offensive series. They came back (I mean, we let them come back) and closed the gap, resulting in a situation where "that one play" mattered. The 2017 Hail Mary game...did you forget Butch's play calling from the one-inch line earlier in that game?

I don't remember all the specific details about every single Florida loss, but I'm sure you can do the same thing in those games too.
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You are completely missing the point. The games were close enough that one play going the other way changes the outcome. Therefore, they were close enough that a slight shift in advantage towards Tennessee could/would have changed the outcome. That's the point.
 
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