Is Today's NBA Better Defensively than in the 1990s?

[Rifleman]

I don't want to influence people's vote, so I'll just post this as is. Comments and reasons appreciated.

 

[QuarterSawnVol]

What is defense?

 

[n_huffhines]

I don't want to influence people's vote, so I'll just post this as is. Comments and reasons appreciated.

This isn't even the right question. We disagreed about whether or not modern NBA has "abysmal D"

I said specifically that perimeter defense is better today because it's more of a perimeter game. I didn't say defense as a whole is better. I do believe that it is better, but I also believe the game is different enough that it's hard to say that with much certainty.

 

[n_huffhines]

Considerations

The 90s game was more physical around the basket. The 20s game is more physical around the perimeter because of the frequency of screening. We don't have anybody like Shaq in the league, but Shaq wasn't putting his body on Damon Stoudemire 15x a night like Gobert does opposing PG's today.

The centers and PF's were generally bigger but slower.

The guards and wings were generally smaller.

NBA offenses in the 90s were heavily run by small guards and most of the action happened within 17' of the basket. Now, most teams have guys who are 6' 5" or taller who you can run offense through. Everybody is trying to shoot 3's, so the D is spread out, sometimes covering up to 28' from the basket.

You could hand check, and that helped but you couldn't double off ball, so the double teams would get there late.

You could consistently trap in the 90's and get away with it. That's why the Bulls were so good at closing out games. Jordan had a lot of clutch moments on offense, but he and Pippen smothering on D had more to do with their victories. You can't run the half court trap anymore because every team has 3 or 4 guys on the floor who can hit 3's.

It's just so different so defensive concepts and roster construction were totally different.

 

[Rifleman]

This isn't even the right question. We disagreed about whether or not modern NBA has "abysmal D"

I said specifically that perimeter defense is better today because it's more of a perimeter game. I didn't say defense as a whole is better. I do believe that it is better, but I also believe the game is different enough that it's hard to say that with much certainty.

I just wanted to give a typical survey range to get more input and see if anyone else had ideas to contribute. Otherwise, it would be too narrow a topic for its own thread.

You have some great points and I’ll keep them in mind as I watch games. I may not be swayed to your view of it but I certainly appreciate the conversation, and think it makes for a good basis for further discussion.

 

[95 Vol Alum]

I said slightly better. The techniques and athleticism are improved but, as huff noted, style is completely different now.

 

[zjcvols]

I said slightly better. The techniques and athleticism are improved but, as huff noted, style is completely different now.

90's/00's was much more physical in terms of strength, but today's defensively is harder to play and better. Up until 2015, you could essentially hide a bad defensive player. You can't do that anymore with how many shooters/ball handlers there are. If you're 4 isn't good defensively and he plays against the Celtics, they just attack you in pick and rolls and you're screwed.

Now, what makes me mad is when people try to say 80's defense was good. It was grossly atrocious. Nobody guarded anybody till conference finals. And it wasn't even physical. Whenever I watch old highlights or games, it's incredible to me how bad the defense is.

 

[YankeeVol]

I said no better, no worse.

Like others have said, the game has changed...A LOT. So it's hard to compare really.

 

[zjcvols]

I said no better, no worse.

Like others have said, the game has changed...A LOT. So it's hard to compare really.

Watched a 2010 NBA Finals game a couple months ago before the season started...that was 12 years ago and it wasn't even the same game. Pau and KG has more post ups in a quarter than you see in a three game span that isn't a Jokic or Embiid game. It's insane how much different sports have changed in the last 20+ years and what analytics have done to all sports. Hockey might be the only one that looks similar from 2000

 

[Rifleman]

90's/00's was much more physical in terms of strength, but today's defensively is harder to play and better. Up until 2015, you could essentially hide a bad defensive player. You can't do that anymore with how many shooters/ball handlers there are. If you're 4 isn't good defensively and he plays against the Celtics, they just attack you in pick and rolls and you're screwed.

Now, what makes me mad is when people try to say 80's defense was good. It was grossly atrocious. Nobody guarded anybody till conference finals. And it wasn't even physical. Whenever I watch old highlights or games, it's incredible to me how bad the defense is.

Many regular season games in the 80s resembled a game of horse.

The 1981 Celtics/Sixers was a great “no blood no foul” series though. There was contact constantly but both teams just got used to it by game 7 and made crazy shots anyway. That was 40+ years now so just the dawn of where the league was going.

But in the end great offensive players can only be slowed no matter what the rules.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

One difference between today and the 90s was more of the stars attempted to defend then.

Today, you got guys like Harden, Irving, Morant, Trae, Luka, Dame Time, D. Mitchell, LaMelo that make little to no attempt to defend....

Hard to compare due to changes in game so voted No Difference

 

[n_huffhines]

One difference between today and the 90s was more of the stars attempted to defend then.

Today, you got guys like Harden, Irving, Morant, Trae, Luka, Dame Time, D. Mitchell, LaMelo that make little to no attempt to defend....

Hard to compare due to changes in game so voted No Difference

90's defense just didn't require as much because you could put a hand on the guy and the offense wasn't spaced, but there were still stars who played lazy D. Barkley and Magic, for example. But you are right, it's more today.

I think Luka tries on D, he's just got slow feet.

 

[Rifleman]

Good example of current NBA. More fun to watch than much of the non-Bulls 90s for sure. Also, Brooklyn may be the worst defensive team in the league even with Kyrie, a godawful defender, on the sideline.

 

[n_huffhines]

Good example of current NBA. More fun to watch than much of the non-Bulls 90s for sure. Also, Brooklyn may be the worst defensive team in the league even with Kyrie, a godawful defender, on the sideline.

It's the highest team score in a game this season, so I wouldn't call it that.

Also, scores are going to be higher by virtue of the fact that we have more possessions. The pace is faster by design, and also because the 24" shot clock is just a 14" shot clock on offensive rebounds. We have 88-89 shots a night the last 5 years, and in the 90's it was anywhere from 78 - 87.

Offensive rating tells the tale pretty well, which is 112 points per 100 possessions. In the 1990s, it was about 108. It's the difference between the 10th ranked offense right now, and the 26th ranked offense.

 

[Rifleman]

It's the highest team score in a game this season, so I wouldn't call it that.

Also, scores are going to be higher by virtue of the fact that we have more possessions. The pace is faster by design, and also because the 24" shot clock is just a 14" shot clock on offensive rebounds. We have 88-89 shots a night the last 5 years, and in the 90's it was anywhere from 78 - 87.

Offensive rating tells the tale pretty well, which is 112 points per 100 possessions. In the 1990s, it was about 108. It's the difference between the 10th ranked offense right now, and the 26th ranked offense.

106.43 is the offensive rating per 100 possessions for the 90s, on average, from NBA reference. Many more threes now, but the guys in the 90s were getting more free throws. Free throw shooting is better now so that diminishes the free throw differential.

I think the Brooklyn game is interesting because they are 15th in defensive efficiency this year, and it would be hard to imagine watching that game that they defend better than 15 teams in this league. Sacramento doesn't even pretend to care about defense because they really don't need much.

So far this year I think Milwaukee is quite good defensively, and they will be NBA champs if they can get healthy. I've been very impressed with Cleveland. Atlanta with Capella anchoring things too, though they were not good last night.

Obviously things change as the year goes along. The Celtics will get Williams back and they might return to form and challenge the Bucks. Their D was good last night, especially considering the pace.

 

[Rifleman]

As an entertainment, I feel the NBA is very healthy. Bol Bol is the kind of absurdity that makes me co-sign whatever the analytics guys have shaped the league into. Pure fun to watch.