Is Butch actually recruiting players..

[KBVol]

Aaron Murray disagrees.

Tyler Bray disagrees.

Peyton Manning disagrees.

Johnny Manziel disagrees.

AJ McCarron disagrees.

Eric Ainge and Brent Schaeffer disagrees with you.

Jeremy Johnson at Auburn has a package to play this weekend in the Iron Bowl. That's Auburn's biggest game of the year and Malzahn isn't scared to roll the dice and give him some snaps.

Tebow came in as a true freshman and split time with Leak.

You've got guys all over the country like Mariota, Hundley, Bridgewater, O Brien at Maryland etc who started and did well as freshmen.

Playing a freshman quarterback isn't ideal, but it isn't the kiss of death for most teams like it is for the Vols. You can at least get something positive out of them.

All of those guys I mentioned cut their teeth under difficult circumstances and offered positives for their teams. We've seen absolutely nothing out of Dobbs so far.

Either way, it's on Jones and his staff.

They are either slow at getting Dobbs up to speed, who everyone was touting as knowing the playbook backwards and forwards already.

Or it's that Dobbs just ins't very good which means Jones and his staff have trouble spotting talent in recruiting.

He has shown he has good game speed and a strong arm already so I think the talent is there. That leaves one other part of the equation that must be missing.

Your examples are, with rare exception, very poor. Let's compare apples to apples by not comparing Dobbs, a true freshman, to redshirt freshmen who have, at a minimum, an extra Spring practice, an extra summer and fall camp.... that eliminates Murray, Manziel, McCarron, Mariota, and Hundley.

Next, lets eliminate Brent Schaefer... he was a JUCO... He had a full season as a Jr College starter at QB before getting to UT. Besides, he wasn't very good his first year at UT.... 2 tds, 1 int, <50% completions.

It's inaccurate to say that Tebow "split time" with Leak as a freshman... he didn't. He pretty much came in for redzone/goal line packages... threw all of 33 passes for 358 yds and 5tds as a freshman... It was Leak's team- 2900+ yds, 23 tds... they hardly "split time"

Next, Auburn "has a package" for Jeremy Johnson this weekend.... you're kidding right? This is your example of a really good freshman producing? Hey, UT has an entire game plan for Joshua Dobbs.....

Danny O'Brien was a good example.... as a freshman, threw like 22 tds or so. However, he absolutely sucked as a Soph when he threw 7 tds and 10 ints. He wound up transferring to Wisconsin. Ok, never mind, it's not a good example.

Teddy Bridgewater is a pretty good example. He played some crap competition in a lesser conference but at least his freshman stats weren't bad... 14 tds, 12 ints

That leaves us with 3 UT QBs remaining, I saved the best for last....

Erik Ainge was very good as a freshman, I agree. He made some fantastic throws vs some excellent teams. I remember a few in that Florida game. 17 tds, 9 ints... really good. However, as I just heard him say a few days ago, he was surrounded by elite talent on both sides of the ball. On O- Arian Foster, Robt Meachem, Jayson Swain, Arron Sears to name just a few; on D- Jason Allen, Robert Ayers, Parys Haralson, Jerod Mayo, all NFL players, again just to name a few.... it makes a HUGE difference to have this talent all around a freshman QB... Ainge had it, Dobbs does not.

However, Erik kinda lost his starting job to Clausen as a sophomore... 5 tds, 7 picks as a Soph.... so what does the freshman season really mean if he didn't grow as Soph and couldn't keep his job?

Peyton Manning- he had a good, not a great Freshman year. 11 tds, 6 ints. Many if not most fans were calling for Brannon Stewart to play, not Peyton, after a couple of Manning starts. Remember also that Peyton did not start the season as the starter- he was 3rd string and only played because Colquitt and Helton were injured. Even if I do give you this one, Peyton is an all-time great, a collegiate HOF'er, multiple all-American, multiple heisman trophy candidate QB.

Tyler Bray- he had good #s as a freshman, but iirc, his 3 starts came at the end of the season, vs Memphis, Vandy and Ky.... not exactly Bama, Mizzou and Auburn. That being said, he didn't have an absolutely rotten start like Dobbs just did vs vaginabilt. But he also had some established, talented receivers to throw to like Denarius Moore, Gerald Jones and Luke Stocker to go along with 2 very gifted freshmen in Justin and Da'Rick. Again, Dobbs has no one remotely to throw to like these guys.

In conclusion, of the 13 examples you gave, only 5 were even remotely legit comparisons.

 

[volfan411]

Your examples are, with rare exception, very poor. Let's compare apples to apples by not comparing Dobbs, a true freshman, to redshirt freshmen who have, at a minimum, an extra Spring practice, an extra summer and fall camp.... that eliminates Murray, Manziel, McCarron, Mariota, and Hundley.

Next, lets eliminate Brent Schaefer... he was a JUCO... He had a full season as a Jr College starter at QB before getting to UT. Besides, he wasn't very good his first year at UT.... 2 tds, 1 int, <50% completions.

It's inaccurate to say that Tebow "split time" with Leak as a freshman... he didn't. He pretty much came in for redzone/goal line packages... threw all of 33 passes for 358 yds and 5tds as a freshman... It was Leak's team- 2900+ yds, 23 tds... they hardly "split time"

Next, Auburn "has a package" for Jeremy Johnson this weekend.... you're kidding right? This is your example of a really good freshman producing? Hey, UT has an entire game plan for Joshua Dobbs.....

Danny O'Brien was a good example.... as a freshman, threw like 22 tds or so. However, he absolutely sucked as a Soph when he threw 7 tds and 10 ints. He wound up transferring to Wisconsin. Ok, never mind, it's not a good example.

Teddy Bridgewater is a pretty good example. He played some crap competition in a lesser conference but at least his freshman stats weren't bad... 14 tds, 12 ints

That leaves us with 3 UT QBs remaining, I saved the best for last....

Erik Ainge was very good as a freshman, I agree. He made some fantastic throws vs some excellent teams. I remember a few in that Florida game. 17 tds, 9 ints... really good. However, as I just heard him say a few days ago, he was surrounded by elite talent on both sides of the ball. On O- Arian Foster, Robt Meachem, Jayson Swain, Arron Sears to name just a few; on D- Jason Allen, Robert Ayers, Parys Haralson, Jerod Mayo, all NFL players, again just to name a few.... it makes a HUGE difference to have this talent all around a freshman QB... Ainge had it, Dobbs does not.

However, Erik kinda lost his starting job to Clausen as a sophomore... 5 tds, 7 picks as a Soph.... so what does the freshman season really mean if he didn't grow as Soph and couldn't keep his job?

Peyton Manning- he had a good, not a great Freshman year. 11 tds, 6 ints. Many if not most fans were calling for Brannon Stewart to play, not Peyton, after a couple of Manning starts. Remember also that Peyton did not start the season as the starter- he was 3rd string and only played because Colquitt and Helton were injured. Even if I do give you this one, Peyton is an all-time great, a collegiate HOF'er, multiple all-American, multiple heisman trophy candidate QB.

Tyler Bray- he had good #s as a freshman, but iirc, his 3 starts came at the end of the season, vs Memphis, Vandy and Ky.... not exactly Bama, Mizzou and Auburn. That being said, he didn't have an absolutely rotten start like Dobbs just did vs vaginabilt.

In conclusion, of the 13 examples you gave, only 5 were even remotely legit comparisons.

Did Shaeffer not come to UT and then transfer to a JUCO and then on to Ole Miss. I am getting old and my memory may be wrong.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Your examples are, with rare exception, very poor. Let's compare apples to apples by not comparing Dobbs, a true freshman, to redshirt freshmen who have, at a minimum, an extra Spring practice, an extra summer and fall camp.... that eliminates Murray, Manziel, McCarron, Mariota, and Hundley.

Next, lets eliminate Brent Schaefer... he was a JUCO... He had a full season as a Jr College starter at QB before getting to UT. Besides, he wasn't very good his first year at UT.... 2 tds, 1 int, <50% completions.

It's inaccurate to say that Tebow "split time" with Leak as a freshman... he didn't. He pretty much came in for redzone/goal line packages... threw all of 33 passes for 358 yds and 5tds as a freshman... It was Leak's team- 2900+ yds, 23 tds... they hardly "split time"

Next, Auburn "has a package" for Jeremy Johnson this weekend.... you're kidding right? This is your example of a really good freshman producing? Hey, UT has an entire game plan for Joshua Dobbs.....

Danny O'Brien was a good example.... as a freshman, threw like 22 tds or so. However, he absolutely sucked as a Soph when he threw 7 tds and 10 ints. He wound up transferring to Wisconsin. Ok, never mind, it's not a good example.

Teddy Bridgewater is a pretty good example. He played some crap competition in a lesser conference but at least his freshman stats weren't bad... 14 tds, 12 ints

That leaves us with 3 UT QBs remaining, I saved the best for last....

Erik Ainge was very good as a freshman, I agree. He made some fantastic throws vs some excellent teams. I remember a few in that Florida game. 17 tds, 9 ints... really good. However, as I just heard him say a few days ago, he was surrounded by elite talent on both sides of the ball. On O- Arian Foster, Robt Meachem, Jayson Swain, Arron Sears to name just a few; on D- Jason Allen, Robert Ayers, Parys Haralson, Jerod Mayo, all NFL players, again just to name a few.... it makes a HUGE difference to have this talent all around a freshman QB... Ainge had it, Dobbs does not.

However, Erik kinda lost his starting job to Clausen as a sophomore... 5 tds, 7 picks as a Soph.... so what does the freshman season really mean if he didn't grow as Soph and couldn't keep his job?

Peyton Manning- he had a good, not a great Freshman year. 11 tds, 6 ints. Many if not most fans were calling for Brannon Stewart to play, not Peyton, after a couple of Manning starts. Remember also that Peyton did not start the season as the starter- he was 3rd string and only played because Colquitt and Helton were injured. Even if I do give you this one, Peyton is an all-time great, a collegiate HOF'er, multiple all-American, multiple heisman trophy candidate QB.

Tyler Bray- he had good #s as a freshman, but iirc, his 3 starts came at the end of the season, vs Memphis, Vandy and Ky.... not exactly Bama, Mizzou and Auburn. That being said, he didn't have an absolutely rotten start like Dobbs just did vs vaginabilt. But he also had some established, talented receivers to throw to like Denarius Moore, Gerald Jones and Luke Stocker to go along with 2 very gifted freshmen in Justin and Da'Rick. Again, Dobbs has no one remotely to throw to like these guys.

In conclusion, of the 13 examples you gave, only 5 were even remotely legit comparisons.

But, but, but.....Coach Butch still should have had all the freshmen ready.

 

[volfan411]

Your examples are, with rare exception, very poor. Let's compare apples to apples by not comparing Dobbs, a true freshman, to redshirt freshmen who have, at a minimum, an extra Spring practice, an extra summer and fall camp.... that eliminates Murray, Manziel, McCarron, Mariota, and Hundley.

Next, lets eliminate Brent Schaefer... he was a JUCO... He had a full season as a Jr College starter at QB before getting to UT. Besides, he wasn't very good his first year at UT.... 2 tds, 1 int, <50% completions.

It's inaccurate to say that Tebow "split time" with Leak as a freshman... he didn't. He pretty much came in for redzone/goal line packages... threw all of 33 passes for 358 yds and 5tds as a freshman... It was Leak's team- 2900+ yds, 23 tds... they hardly "split time"

Next, Auburn "has a package" for Jeremy Johnson this weekend.... you're kidding right? This is your example of a really good freshman producing? Hey, UT has an entire game plan for Joshua Dobbs.....

Danny O'Brien was a good example.... as a freshman, threw like 22 tds or so. However, he absolutely sucked as a Soph when he threw 7 tds and 10 ints. He wound up transferring to Wisconsin. Ok, never mind, it's not a good example.

Teddy Bridgewater is a pretty good example. He played some crap competition in a lesser conference but at least his freshman stats weren't bad... 14 tds, 12 ints

That leaves us with 3 UT QBs remaining, I saved the best for last....

Erik Ainge was very good as a freshman, I agree. He made some fantastic throws vs some excellent teams. I remember a few in that Florida game. 17 tds, 9 ints... really good. However, as I just heard him say a few days ago, he was surrounded by elite talent on both sides of the ball. On O- Arian Foster, Robt Meachem, Jayson Swain, Arron Sears to name just a few; on D- Jason Allen, Robert Ayers, Parys Haralson, Jerod Mayo, all NFL players, again just to name a few.... it makes a HUGE difference to have this talent all around a freshman QB... Ainge had it, Dobbs does not.

However, Erik kinda lost his starting job to Clausen as a sophomore... 5 tds, 7 picks as a Soph.... so what does the freshman season really mean if he didn't grow as Soph and couldn't keep his job?

Peyton Manning- he had a good, not a great Freshman year. 11 tds, 6 ints. Many if not most fans were calling for Brannon Stewart to play, not Peyton, after a couple of Manning starts. Remember also that Peyton did not start the season as the starter- he was 3rd string and only played because Colquitt and Helton were injured. Even if I do give you this one, Peyton is an all-time great, a collegiate HOF'er, multiple all-American, multiple heisman trophy candidate QB.

Tyler Bray- he had good #s as a freshman, but iirc, his 3 starts came at the end of the season, vs Memphis, Vandy and Ky.... not exactly Bama, Mizzou and Auburn. That being said, he didn't have an absolutely rotten start like Dobbs just did vs vaginabilt. But he also had some established, talented receivers to throw to like Denarius Moore, Gerald Jones and Luke Stocker to go along with 2 very gifted freshmen in Justin and Da'Rick. Again, Dobbs has no one remotely to throw to like these guys.

In conclusion, of the 13 examples you gave, only 5 were even remotely legit comparisons.

I think the point he was trying to make is that the offense production should not have fallen off the way it did when Dobbs had to come into the game. I agree with him that the game plan did not do him any favors but IMO the biggest problem Dobbs had was no one stepped up around him. As you said Ainge had NFL caliber skill position players all around him and this team currently has North who may be a future NFL player. I think the staff would have liked to have played a little more power football and lean on the o-line but again they did not step up to the plate.

 

[knoxvol16]

I give you props for making it difficult to respond in a somewhat respectable and hopefully accuruate manner which i dont worry about on the forum too much. Sure we all make some mistakenly wrong comments (including me) that may not pan out to be true or weren't entirely true due to ignorance. And we all have the right since its just a forum, but at the same time, this game relies on hope as a fan, unless your a player, coach, or sports analyst. Even as some decide they want to gve to the program for whatever reason, the answer is still hope and support, other than that what is a fans role besides being a UT supporter/fan. I do spend little time on here and probably check the forums I post to if I get time once a week, and when I do its mostly straight negativity, its hard to swallow a loss, but as a fan and a former athlete the roles change as you change from an active participant in a sport to a spectator. For me I see an abundance of the comments on here (not targeting yours) pose such a bad attitude towards the program and to me it just seems worse then the loss to begin with. Recently being involved in sports, it was drilled my head over and over again til practically brainwashed one play at a time, one game at time, and one season at a time. If one play,game, or season, doesn't go right forget it and move forward. thats my mentality so lots of times I say to the ones that are anti vols mode to go ahead abort the mission and find another team. So if I offended anyone sorry, but the truth of the matter is, none of us knows what the next five years are going to be like with coach jones, we can try to give a good reason on wwhy we will think its a certain way but its just not reasonable to say ones right and ones wrong. Accountability is an important; I wouldnt say being 100% accountable is required of me on a forum though, so I do jump to conclusions to reach my point. I want say that if fans do have hope or continue to support their team, you would think their "talk" would be more accountable as a fan if they choose to continue supporting what they see sometimes as a lost cause. But I guess some on here think their responsibility is to bash their team and tell others how they should've made better decisions in all areas of the program as their team continues to lose. If your choosing to challenge my credibility as to being accountable, go ahead, this is sports talk. :whistling:

You make good points; and I agree that fans have limited roles - all we can do is hope and support. I haven't stopped hoping; if I had, I would have pulled my money by now. I will say that I'm sorely disappointed, and I have honestly tried to offer only fair criticism.

I apologize if my response you was out of line.

 

[volgrad500]

I understand the hope for the new class, but haven't all of our classed been top 20? I've heard ad nauseam how this one didn't pan out and this one doesn't count, but that stuff happens with recruits. One good recruiting class isn't going to save our entire program. Plus, it's not like this is happening in a vacuum. The rest of the conference isn't just signing a bunch of bums waiting for Butch to get things turned around.

 

[1985Vols]

I understand the hope for the new class, but haven't all of our classed been top 20? I've heard ad nauseam how this one didn't pan out and this one doesn't count, but that stuff happens with recruits. One good recruiting class isn't going to save our entire program. Plus, it's not like this is happening in a vacuum. The rest of the conference isn't just signing a bunch of bums waiting for Butch to get things turned around.

Top 20 classes in the SEC get you a .500 record. The elite teams are all in the top 10 recruiting. A top 5 class would go a long ways rebuilding the train wreck CBJ inherited. It will take several top 5 classes in a row to completely get things turned around

 

[volgrad500]

Top 20 classes in the SEC get you a .500 record. The elite teams are all in the top 10 recruiting. A top 5 class would go a long ways rebuilding the train wreck CBJ inherited. It will take several top 5 classes in a row to completely get things turned around

I'd like to see a .500 record in the SEC. Been a long time.

 

[VolFootballlover]

Maybe Alabama shouldve fired Saban after his 2007 year:salute:

Jones can't carry Sabans clipboard

 

[Other_Guy]

Jones can't carry Sabans clipboard

No but he beat Spurrier! Lol

 

[Oskie Volum]

Did Shaeffer not come to UT and then transfer to a JUCO and then on to Ole Miss. I am getting old and my memory may be wrong.

No u r right. It's kind of hard to be the first true freshman to start a season opener in the SEC in over half a century or something like that if u transferred from a CC. That's like one of the hardest "headlines" to forget as a Vol fan during that time. Can't believe only one person caught that.

That wasn't even the worse thing said in this thread. Can't believe no one called out the guy who gave himself the "ftw" pat on the back for using Ferguson as proof of how CBJs QB recruiting was going. Smh. To that guy...The Fergs committed to Dooley and Dobbs is the proof u were trying to use as evidence of CBJs QB recruitment.
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