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CanesJim
Heisman Candidate
Posts: 5717
(11/5/03 9:58:21 am)
Reply Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC what is your game plan heading into the game - what are they going to do different that they haven't done all year?
Personally I think this is a mismatch in favor of Tennessee. We are going up against a good and solid DC who can make the adjustments needed to put his team in the right situations. Even in the Bama game where his D gave up some points he made game time corrections to at least keep them in the game till the O came around.
Personally we have to attack their weakness, the run. We need to do some overloading and just force them to cheat up with the safties. They run a defense very similar to Shannon's cover 2 base. It is a pro set D. We have to establish the run or they are going to kill us.
We have to get the WRs back into this game somehow someway. We need to attack the middle of the field. If we are going towaste Winslow as a decoy then we might as well run him out of the middle to clear it up for some slants and quick hitters over the middle. For the love of god please reintroduce the RB to the passing game. A short passing game to the RB/FB /TE is an extention of our running game.
Edited by: CanesJim at: 11/5/03 10:01:38 am
CraZcane
Heisman Candidate
Posts: 6526
(11/5/03 10:01:08 am)
Reply Tennessee... ..doesnt have that good of a D.
You can run in between the tackles on them, exactly where Payton shines.
Sebastian21
Starter
Posts: 933
(11/5/03 10:02:05 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Honestly, I think offensively we are in for a huge battle on Saturday. Tenn is physical and while not great at anything, they are solid at many things.
Defensively we need to stop their power running game. Despite what people think Clausen is actually pretty good and the Tenn WR's have made plays all year.
This is no cupcake game. If our guys don't come to play, we will lose. If our offense turns the ball over, Tenn will play ball control smash mouth with us and we will lose.
IMO, Pts will be hard to come by for both Tenn and Miami on Saturday. I expect a low scoring game, unfortunately
3FW
All American
Posts: 3395
(11/5/03 10:05:36 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC When they send 11 guys on every play, I'd like to see a few more screen plays.
PennMed Canefan
All American
Posts: 4683
(11/5/03 10:07:16 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee... It's hard because you don't know how they are going to play us yet.
Given precedent and our inability to beat it, I suspect they'll shove people up and play off the receivers. They have athletes. With enough guys up, they'll be able to handle our run well enough. Then, you just rely on one of our typical self-destructions in playcalling, quarterbacking, and/or penalty.
If they do, I think we're going to HAVE to be able to consistently work underneath. Get the players the ball where they can get RAC yards because throwing 30 yard passes is going to be hard. We're just not going to be able to run by people on the outside against this. Take what they are giving you. We can't commit dumb penalties or make stupid throws. It's possible to execute a 3 minute scoring drive using the short passing game. Then, you adjust when they adjust.
The other thing we'll REALLY have to do is cash in in the red zone. If we are having to run 11 play drives to score and are only scoring 3, they will be winning the war because one of the 11 plays will sooner or later be a Berlin disaster.
CanesJim
Heisman Candidate
Posts: 5719
(11/5/03 10:07:29 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC I am just trying to think about what Chud is going to put together.
Tennessee knows that right now our passing game is in shambles. I already know if I am the Tennessee DC I play man cover unless a speed disadvantage warrants otherwise. I load the box and force Miami to pass, in fact dare Miami to pass. Why not everyone else has.
Now you are Chud and you probably realize that they are going to load the box and send their LBs after Berlin. What do you script if anything. Someone told me last night they didn't attempt any slants because the coaches feel that Brock can't make those throws consistently? I was at a lose for words, we are talking quick slants, but as pointed out so painfully Brock was picked twice at FSU on such patterns.
CATEGORY 5
Baby Cane
Posts: 96
(11/5/03 10:39:18 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Hide the Biscuits & Gravy from Phil Fatmer...
He'll be so distressed he won't know which way is up.
GO
CanesJim
Heisman Candidate
Posts: 5722
(11/5/03 10:41:06 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Penn if they play they corners off and safties up. We have two options - attacke the middle beyond the backers or quick curls. If TN plays 12 yards of the LOS like Va Tech we have to get that WR the ball immediately. Is Berlin so pathetic that we feel he can't make the pass out for the quick curl before the corner runs up 12 yards?
CanesForever
Thou Shalt Not Lose!
Posts: 14644
(11/5/03 10:48:02 am)
Reply How I would attack them and what we will actually do... ...are so diametrically different that it's comical.
Tennessee should and likely will leave no more than one safety deep. Any safety they use will be fast enough to react to anything moderately deep because Berlin will tip him off AT THE SNAP, giving the safety ample time to read and react.
The way to beat this? Look off the safety, and throw deep to Hester/Moore/Parrish the other way. I'm not a coach, but this unqualified moron knows that a play like that could and often would work.
Instead, Chud will run right into the teeth of the 8-9 man fronts we'll see, combined with an occasional 3-yard route to Winslow, who gets drilled by the safety I mentioned above.
We'll be fine, though, if Taylor picks off Clausen and takes it to the house a few times, and/or Parrish takes a punt the distance.
Go Canes
PennMed Canefan
All American
Posts: 4685
(11/5/03 10:48:11 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Penn if they play they corners off and safties up. We have two options - attacke the middle beyond the backers or quick curls
Oh yeah, that'd be my other plan--to have a quick hook for Brock.
Just because a corner is 12 off doesn't mean that you can get a curl, as you said. Sometimes the corner has his feet planted there and is waiting to drive on your curl. THAT (and some shoddy route-running) is what got him picked off twice at FSU.
In the end, if you can't trust your QB to decide whether a curl is good or not, get rid of him. You can't be making curl throws outside that are unsafe or you are looking at 14 points against.
The other thing I'd run is a stop and go early. I don't even like these calls, but you have to make the corners think. I can't believe we haven't run ONE of these in the past 3 games even though we've gotten 4 underneath passes picked clean. If these guys start feeling like you're going to run curls/outs all day and you comply, 14 points against. The stop and go should give you another 5 or so underneath passes.
I don't think the coaches trust Berlin in the middle right now. I watch games a lot, and I honestly can't recall the last time we completed a pass in the middle of the field that was more than 10 yards from a non-shotgun formation. Cobia dropped one vs Temple, but I don't remember a completion.
chefcane
All-ACC!!
Posts: 3204
(11/5/03 10:55:17 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC I would hire Gary Stevens as a consultant for the rest of the season to help Chud with gameplanning and playcalling.
Ok, now that my dream has been articulated, what CF said.
To put it another way: throw the f-ing ball DOWNFIELD!!
If we don't throw the ball downfield, then we need 2 non-offensive TD's to win.
Dynasty
Bench Warmer
Posts: 430
(11/5/03 11:08:20 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC UTenn is way more aggressive with the backers and safeties than UM. They will blitz on any down and from every angle.
To be honest CJ, I really don't know where to start. The reason is UTenn's secondary can be had, but you need good quarterbacking play to exploit it. Their linebackers are tough at smelling the run, but aren't comparable in pass coverage. Again, quarterbacking comes into play.
As had been mentioned, the corners like to play traditional 2deep alignment, but that doesn't mean much because they could easily roll up and bait Berlin into an INT.
Sadly, this game may come down to the defense. If it does, it wouldn't surprise me if Phil turns the game over to his o-line and ground game in the 4th qtr. Those 2 and 3 yards gains in the first half will likely become 10 and 15 yard gains in the 4th.
KLCane
Heisman Candidate
Posts: 5616
(11/5/03 11:18:40 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC I've said this on earlier threads and nobody has responded, but from what I have seen, we have tried to throw the ball downfield. What can the coaches do when the throws are being overthrown? Berlin overthrew three deep routes vs. VT. Several more over the course of the season. He has hit one deep route-- the pass to Roscoe Parrish earlier in the season. That is it. As for the middle of the field, I am scared to death at the thought of Berlin throwing there. I would say that I just want to see some nice easy slants, but he can't seem to throw those either. What are the coaches supposed to do when Berlin simply can't make the throws?
Insanecane
Starter
Posts: 878
(11/5/03 11:19:52 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC If Brock is in the game Tennessee will follow VT's plan to a tee. Stack 8 in the box, sent 7-8 on a jailbreack blitz. Play the corners 10 yards off the ball. And watch and wait as a panicked Brock telegraphs throw after throw. Pick 6 will be the name of the game for the opposing team once more. And we will begin to lose the game.
Now if DC comes in, Tennessee will have to blitz a less to account for his scrambling. I would imagine that they would play a bit more zone. Once that finally happens then we will be able to attack the zones with bootlegs, screens, and pickplays. When Tennessee blitzs, we can attack them with more bootlegs, RB fares, RB draws, and QB draws (I know inconceivable here at UM). Also, it is important to run some deep pass bootlegs and plays were DC runs to one side and launches it to the other. Remember when Dorsey used to do that? Well, DC is better at it. I would also like to see some fake reverses and fake reverse QB keepers. Need to get those LB's and safeties running around. Finally, Payton and company will have to do some running. It will be tough as Tenessee will stack the box, but just enough to set up a play action deep ball, every now and then.
BigBlueCane
All ACC
Posts: 1566
(11/5/03 11:49:48 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Well, I don't expect our Oline to NEARLY as bad as they did against VT nor do I expect our backs or WR's to mis read the blitzes that badly again.
UT's defensive cordinator isn't that good, he's aggressive as hell but Georgia put 40+ on this team and Marshall gave them a fight before going down.
This is one of those games where a lot's going to depend on how fast our guys mature and 'grow up' this week.
PennMed Canefan
All American
Posts: 4689
(11/5/03 12:05:46 pm)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC What are the coaches supposed to do when Berlin simply can't make the throws
Get him out, which is about the only decision that comes 100% down to coaching. If he can't make a single throw (which I don't believe, but your post indicates), then take him out of the game. Forget what he does in practice and what DC does. DC has been here forever and looked the part of a QB Saturday. You'll never know if he can do it or not unless you give him time with our real playbook and our real playmakers. If you honestly feel that one player is handicapping everything you do, then remove him.
3FW
All American
Posts: 3408
(11/5/03 12:10:46 pm)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC I don't think Brock will have the time to throw the ball deep. If they bring their LB's and safeties, screen them to death with Winslow, Payton and Geathers.
KLCane
Heisman Candidate
Posts: 5617
(11/5/03 12:11:31 pm)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Obviously Penn, that would be one solution. However, going with the assumption that Berlin is going to play, what do you do? It is easy to say, "the coaches should call this play or that play," but when your quarterback is not executing, what are they supposed to call? Of course Berlin can make throws. However, the throws he can make are not going to carry our offense and are not going to strike fear into defensive coordinators.
You say he can make throws. Which ones? What can he do consistently?
Dynasty
Bench Warmer
Posts: 431
(11/5/03 12:19:50 pm)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC YL, the only pass I've seen BBerlin throw with consistency has been the deep in. He's thrown it from both the gun and I-formations. Additionally, stationary pass patterns such as curl routes were effective early on. The only problem now is that teams have taken those patterns away. Therefore, we're stuck with flats and outs.
SmokyRone
Bench Warmer
Posts: 296
(11/5/03 12:25:58 pm)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC You let the Special teams and D do the attacking. On O, you run almost exclusively. Third down QB draws or bootlegs, whatever, anything but pass. Our offense will not outscore UT's D with berlin passing.
TemplarCane
Starter
Posts: 741
(11/5/03 12:41:56 pm)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Payton inside and short 3-4 yard out patterns and 4-5 crossing patterns.
Then punt.
CanesJim
Heisman Candidate
Posts: 5717
(11/5/03 9:58:21 am)
Reply Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC what is your game plan heading into the game - what are they going to do different that they haven't done all year?
Personally I think this is a mismatch in favor of Tennessee. We are going up against a good and solid DC who can make the adjustments needed to put his team in the right situations. Even in the Bama game where his D gave up some points he made game time corrections to at least keep them in the game till the O came around.
Personally we have to attack their weakness, the run. We need to do some overloading and just force them to cheat up with the safties. They run a defense very similar to Shannon's cover 2 base. It is a pro set D. We have to establish the run or they are going to kill us.
We have to get the WRs back into this game somehow someway. We need to attack the middle of the field. If we are going towaste Winslow as a decoy then we might as well run him out of the middle to clear it up for some slants and quick hitters over the middle. For the love of god please reintroduce the RB to the passing game. A short passing game to the RB/FB /TE is an extention of our running game.
Edited by: CanesJim at: 11/5/03 10:01:38 am
CraZcane
Heisman Candidate
Posts: 6526
(11/5/03 10:01:08 am)
Reply Tennessee... ..doesnt have that good of a D.
You can run in between the tackles on them, exactly where Payton shines.
Sebastian21
Starter
Posts: 933
(11/5/03 10:02:05 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Honestly, I think offensively we are in for a huge battle on Saturday. Tenn is physical and while not great at anything, they are solid at many things.
Defensively we need to stop their power running game. Despite what people think Clausen is actually pretty good and the Tenn WR's have made plays all year.
This is no cupcake game. If our guys don't come to play, we will lose. If our offense turns the ball over, Tenn will play ball control smash mouth with us and we will lose.
IMO, Pts will be hard to come by for both Tenn and Miami on Saturday. I expect a low scoring game, unfortunately
3FW
All American
Posts: 3395
(11/5/03 10:05:36 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC When they send 11 guys on every play, I'd like to see a few more screen plays.
PennMed Canefan
All American
Posts: 4683
(11/5/03 10:07:16 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee... It's hard because you don't know how they are going to play us yet.
Given precedent and our inability to beat it, I suspect they'll shove people up and play off the receivers. They have athletes. With enough guys up, they'll be able to handle our run well enough. Then, you just rely on one of our typical self-destructions in playcalling, quarterbacking, and/or penalty.
If they do, I think we're going to HAVE to be able to consistently work underneath. Get the players the ball where they can get RAC yards because throwing 30 yard passes is going to be hard. We're just not going to be able to run by people on the outside against this. Take what they are giving you. We can't commit dumb penalties or make stupid throws. It's possible to execute a 3 minute scoring drive using the short passing game. Then, you adjust when they adjust.
The other thing we'll REALLY have to do is cash in in the red zone. If we are having to run 11 play drives to score and are only scoring 3, they will be winning the war because one of the 11 plays will sooner or later be a Berlin disaster.
CanesJim
Heisman Candidate
Posts: 5719
(11/5/03 10:07:29 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC I am just trying to think about what Chud is going to put together.
Tennessee knows that right now our passing game is in shambles. I already know if I am the Tennessee DC I play man cover unless a speed disadvantage warrants otherwise. I load the box and force Miami to pass, in fact dare Miami to pass. Why not everyone else has.
Now you are Chud and you probably realize that they are going to load the box and send their LBs after Berlin. What do you script if anything. Someone told me last night they didn't attempt any slants because the coaches feel that Brock can't make those throws consistently? I was at a lose for words, we are talking quick slants, but as pointed out so painfully Brock was picked twice at FSU on such patterns.
CATEGORY 5
Baby Cane
Posts: 96
(11/5/03 10:39:18 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Hide the Biscuits & Gravy from Phil Fatmer...
He'll be so distressed he won't know which way is up.
GO
CanesJim
Heisman Candidate
Posts: 5722
(11/5/03 10:41:06 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Penn if they play they corners off and safties up. We have two options - attacke the middle beyond the backers or quick curls. If TN plays 12 yards of the LOS like Va Tech we have to get that WR the ball immediately. Is Berlin so pathetic that we feel he can't make the pass out for the quick curl before the corner runs up 12 yards?
CanesForever
Thou Shalt Not Lose!
Posts: 14644
(11/5/03 10:48:02 am)
Reply How I would attack them and what we will actually do... ...are so diametrically different that it's comical.
Tennessee should and likely will leave no more than one safety deep. Any safety they use will be fast enough to react to anything moderately deep because Berlin will tip him off AT THE SNAP, giving the safety ample time to read and react.
The way to beat this? Look off the safety, and throw deep to Hester/Moore/Parrish the other way. I'm not a coach, but this unqualified moron knows that a play like that could and often would work.
Instead, Chud will run right into the teeth of the 8-9 man fronts we'll see, combined with an occasional 3-yard route to Winslow, who gets drilled by the safety I mentioned above.
We'll be fine, though, if Taylor picks off Clausen and takes it to the house a few times, and/or Parrish takes a punt the distance.
Go Canes
PennMed Canefan
All American
Posts: 4685
(11/5/03 10:48:11 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Penn if they play they corners off and safties up. We have two options - attacke the middle beyond the backers or quick curls
Oh yeah, that'd be my other plan--to have a quick hook for Brock.
Just because a corner is 12 off doesn't mean that you can get a curl, as you said. Sometimes the corner has his feet planted there and is waiting to drive on your curl. THAT (and some shoddy route-running) is what got him picked off twice at FSU.
In the end, if you can't trust your QB to decide whether a curl is good or not, get rid of him. You can't be making curl throws outside that are unsafe or you are looking at 14 points against.
The other thing I'd run is a stop and go early. I don't even like these calls, but you have to make the corners think. I can't believe we haven't run ONE of these in the past 3 games even though we've gotten 4 underneath passes picked clean. If these guys start feeling like you're going to run curls/outs all day and you comply, 14 points against. The stop and go should give you another 5 or so underneath passes.
I don't think the coaches trust Berlin in the middle right now. I watch games a lot, and I honestly can't recall the last time we completed a pass in the middle of the field that was more than 10 yards from a non-shotgun formation. Cobia dropped one vs Temple, but I don't remember a completion.
chefcane
All-ACC!!
Posts: 3204
(11/5/03 10:55:17 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC I would hire Gary Stevens as a consultant for the rest of the season to help Chud with gameplanning and playcalling.
Ok, now that my dream has been articulated, what CF said.
To put it another way: throw the f-ing ball DOWNFIELD!!
If we don't throw the ball downfield, then we need 2 non-offensive TD's to win.
Dynasty
Bench Warmer
Posts: 430
(11/5/03 11:08:20 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC UTenn is way more aggressive with the backers and safeties than UM. They will blitz on any down and from every angle.
To be honest CJ, I really don't know where to start. The reason is UTenn's secondary can be had, but you need good quarterbacking play to exploit it. Their linebackers are tough at smelling the run, but aren't comparable in pass coverage. Again, quarterbacking comes into play.
As had been mentioned, the corners like to play traditional 2deep alignment, but that doesn't mean much because they could easily roll up and bait Berlin into an INT.
Sadly, this game may come down to the defense. If it does, it wouldn't surprise me if Phil turns the game over to his o-line and ground game in the 4th qtr. Those 2 and 3 yards gains in the first half will likely become 10 and 15 yard gains in the 4th.
KLCane
Heisman Candidate
Posts: 5616
(11/5/03 11:18:40 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC I've said this on earlier threads and nobody has responded, but from what I have seen, we have tried to throw the ball downfield. What can the coaches do when the throws are being overthrown? Berlin overthrew three deep routes vs. VT. Several more over the course of the season. He has hit one deep route-- the pass to Roscoe Parrish earlier in the season. That is it. As for the middle of the field, I am scared to death at the thought of Berlin throwing there. I would say that I just want to see some nice easy slants, but he can't seem to throw those either. What are the coaches supposed to do when Berlin simply can't make the throws?
Insanecane
Starter
Posts: 878
(11/5/03 11:19:52 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC If Brock is in the game Tennessee will follow VT's plan to a tee. Stack 8 in the box, sent 7-8 on a jailbreack blitz. Play the corners 10 yards off the ball. And watch and wait as a panicked Brock telegraphs throw after throw. Pick 6 will be the name of the game for the opposing team once more. And we will begin to lose the game.
Now if DC comes in, Tennessee will have to blitz a less to account for his scrambling. I would imagine that they would play a bit more zone. Once that finally happens then we will be able to attack the zones with bootlegs, screens, and pickplays. When Tennessee blitzs, we can attack them with more bootlegs, RB fares, RB draws, and QB draws (I know inconceivable here at UM). Also, it is important to run some deep pass bootlegs and plays were DC runs to one side and launches it to the other. Remember when Dorsey used to do that? Well, DC is better at it. I would also like to see some fake reverses and fake reverse QB keepers. Need to get those LB's and safeties running around. Finally, Payton and company will have to do some running. It will be tough as Tenessee will stack the box, but just enough to set up a play action deep ball, every now and then.
BigBlueCane
All ACC
Posts: 1566
(11/5/03 11:49:48 am)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Well, I don't expect our Oline to NEARLY as bad as they did against VT nor do I expect our backs or WR's to mis read the blitzes that badly again.
UT's defensive cordinator isn't that good, he's aggressive as hell but Georgia put 40+ on this team and Marshall gave them a fight before going down.
This is one of those games where a lot's going to depend on how fast our guys mature and 'grow up' this week.
PennMed Canefan
All American
Posts: 4689
(11/5/03 12:05:46 pm)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC What are the coaches supposed to do when Berlin simply can't make the throws
Get him out, which is about the only decision that comes 100% down to coaching. If he can't make a single throw (which I don't believe, but your post indicates), then take him out of the game. Forget what he does in practice and what DC does. DC has been here forever and looked the part of a QB Saturday. You'll never know if he can do it or not unless you give him time with our real playbook and our real playmakers. If you honestly feel that one player is handicapping everything you do, then remove him.
3FW
All American
Posts: 3408
(11/5/03 12:10:46 pm)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC I don't think Brock will have the time to throw the ball deep. If they bring their LB's and safeties, screen them to death with Winslow, Payton and Geathers.
KLCane
Heisman Candidate
Posts: 5617
(11/5/03 12:11:31 pm)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Obviously Penn, that would be one solution. However, going with the assumption that Berlin is going to play, what do you do? It is easy to say, "the coaches should call this play or that play," but when your quarterback is not executing, what are they supposed to call? Of course Berlin can make throws. However, the throws he can make are not going to carry our offense and are not going to strike fear into defensive coordinators.
You say he can make throws. Which ones? What can he do consistently?
Dynasty
Bench Warmer
Posts: 431
(11/5/03 12:19:50 pm)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC YL, the only pass I've seen BBerlin throw with consistency has been the deep in. He's thrown it from both the gun and I-formations. Additionally, stationary pass patterns such as curl routes were effective early on. The only problem now is that teams have taken those patterns away. Therefore, we're stuck with flats and outs.
SmokyRone
Bench Warmer
Posts: 296
(11/5/03 12:25:58 pm)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC You let the Special teams and D do the attacking. On O, you run almost exclusively. Third down QB draws or bootlegs, whatever, anything but pass. Our offense will not outscore UT's D with berlin passing.
TemplarCane
Starter
Posts: 741
(11/5/03 12:41:56 pm)
Reply Re: Tennessee - How do you attack them if you are OC Payton inside and short 3-4 yard out patterns and 4-5 crossing patterns.
Then punt.
