In the wake of USC and UCLA moving to the Big Ten, here is what every league in college football should do

#28
#28
Football and men's basketball are the cash cows of college sports. The vast majority of all the others operate in the red and there is a lot of them at every major university. I do not understand how the economics will allow for all these non profit producing teams to add even more red ink with the long distance traveling. I think there is the possibility that football and men's basketball will continue with the crazy conference alignments because that is where the money is, The other sports will form different conferences for their sports to help reduce the travel costs. You could actually see a school belonging to five or six different conferences to match economics with appeal. Just my thoughts. How some more opinions here on it.
 
#33
#33
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#34
#34
RDU VOL#14 said:
Delaying the inevitable, but hey whatever helps make the brand more attractive. Would be a helluva thing for Utah and Oregon to both beat Florida and UGA opening weekend. Unlikely, but it could happen.
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I give Utah more than a punchers chance. They lost to OSU by 3 in Rose Bowl. Still remember when they beat Bama in 2008.
 
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#35
#35
Glocker_Alum_2005 said:
I give Utah more than a punchers chance. They lost to OSU by 3 in Rose Bowl. Still remember when they beat Bama in 2008.
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I should’ve been more clear. I expect Utah to win and UGA to win. I think the UGA game will be interesting though. -17.5 is an interesting #. I think the game will be tight given the familiarity of Lanning and Nix. If Good Bo shows up, Oregon could have a shot.
 
#38
#38
UT_VOLS13 said:
SDS sources: SEC wants to end expansion race, stay at 16 teams
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What will change the calculus there is when some notable ACC brands want to leave that conference. The SEC, even though they already have a dominant market position in the geographic areas where Clemson and FSU are located, would like to absorb them rather than see them go to another conference. And if the North Carolina schools left, the SEC would absolutely want them because that would be a new TV market.
 
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#39
#39
05_never_again said:
What will change the calculus there is when some notable ACC brands want to leave that conference. The SEC, even though they already have a dominant market position in the geographic areas where Clemson and FSU are located, would like to absorb them rather than see them go to another conference. And if the North Carolina schools left, the SEC would absolutely want them because that would be a new TV market.
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I bet Jim Phillips changes his tune on expanding the CFP now.
 
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#40
#40
RDU VOL#14 said:
I bet Jim Phillips changes his tune on expanding the CFP now.
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I think the precarious nature of the ACC's position has only become clear to them over the last few months, which is astonishing.

I don't think the SEC will or should actively attempt to poach any ACC members, just like they didn't actively attempt to poach Texas and OU. However, what probably will happen is that a number of ACC schools will express interest in leaving their current conference, like Texas and OU did, and and the SEC's position will essentially be "Well, make a call to stay or leave your current conference, but if you want to leave we want you to come to the SEC."
 
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#41
#41
RDU VOL#14 said:
The SEC expanding to Colorado and Utah would be interesting.
As far as the ACC goes, I heard Andy Staples talking about UNC and State possibly being legally bound. I’m thinking State would be happy to part ways if possible, but that changes things IMO.
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SEC won't leave Southeast, they don't need to. Enough big programs here. If we want to expand again, it will be UNC, Clemson, FSU, and someone else to go with UNC (likely UVA or Duke). There is no reason to leave Southeast.

Money situation is explained in this thread: College Football Expansion - Who is Next and Why

B1G is the conference that has to get out and be more expansive to win $$$ and recruiting grounds.
 
#42
#42
volbound1700 said:
SEC won't leave Southeast, they don't need to. Enough big programs here. If we want to expand again, it will be UNC, Clemson, FSU, and someone else to go with UNC (likely UVA or Duke). There is no reason to leave Southeast.

Money situation is explained in this thread: College Football Expansion - Who is Next and Why

B1G is the conference that has to get out and be more expansive to win $$$ and recruiting grounds.
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The more I think about it, UNC, UVA, Duke, and/or Miami are more likely to enter the SEC than Clemson or FSU.

Footprint-wise and TV market-wise, Clemson and FSU bring nothing to the SEC's table. They don't pop up on any new TV sets if those schools enter the conference. I still think the SEC would absorb them if those schools wanted to leave (which could happen), but I don't think the SEC salivates over the chance to get them. Hell, they didn't even salivate over the chance to get OU and Texas - it was more of a "Well, if you want to leave the Big 12, sure, we'd take ya."
 
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#43
#43
05_never_again said:
The more I think about it, UNC, UVA, Duke, and/or Miami are more likely to enter the SEC than Clemson or FSU.

Footprint-wise and TV market-wise, Clemson and FSU bring nothing to the SEC's table. They don't pop up on any new TV sets if those schools enter the conference. I still think the SEC would absorb them if those schools wanted to leave (which could happen), but I don't think the SEC salivates over the chance to get them. Hell, they didn't even salivate over the chance to get OU and Texas - it was more of a "Well, if you want to leave the Big 12, sure, we'd take ya."
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UNC is the 2nd place runner up behind Notre Dame for the most coveted brand. Personally, I hope they never get an SEC invite. Their fake ass “is it November yet”?football fans don’t deserve the benefit and prestige of playing in our conference.
 
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#44
#44
05_never_again said:
The more I think about it, UNC, UVA, Duke, and/or Miami are more likely to enter the SEC than Clemson or FSU.

Footprint-wise and TV market-wise, Clemson and FSU bring nothing to the SEC's table. They don't pop up on any new TV sets if those schools enter the conference. I still think the SEC would absorb them if those schools wanted to leave (which could happen), but I don't think the SEC salivates over the chance to get them. Hell, they didn't even salivate over the chance to get OU and Texas - it was more of a "Well, if you want to leave the Big 12, sure, we'd take ya."
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It isn't about that, it is about the value they drive and their fanbase size. Geography isn't as important anymore because people stream and we have moved away from regional broadcasts.

Clemson ranks 19th in viewership (1.74 million viewers per game) and FSU 25th (1.27 million viewers per game)

Miami is 35th (1.038 million viewers per game), North Carolina 36th (1.032 million viewers per game), and Virginia 52nd (611,000 viewers per game).

Based on these stats, FSU > Miami. FSU sells more merchandise, sells out their games, and has more viewers. No way SEC picks Miami over FSU.

Here was a breakdown provided by the Georgia fan in that thread explaining potential candidates (He also listed OU, Texas, UCLA, and USC for some reason even though they already moved)

6 Oklahoma — 3.46M
9 Notre Dame — 2.84M
10 Oregon — 2.57M
13 Texas — 2.26M
19 Clemson — 1.74M
22 Oklahoma State — 1.58M
25 Florida State — 1.27M
28 Cincinnati — 1.216M
29 UCLA — 1.18M
32 Southern Cal — 1.11M
35 Miami — 1.038M
36 North Carolina — 1.032M
37 Utah — 994K
38 Washington — 985K
40 West Virginia — 948K
46 Stanford — 778K
47 Arizona State — 739K
49 Boise State — 657K
51 Louisville — 616K
52 Virginia — 611K
54 Pittsburgh — 550K
55 Kansas — 540K
56 Wake Forest — 526K
57 NC State — 525K
59 Washington State — 483K
61 Georgia Tech — 459K
62 Virginia Tech — 447K
64 Colorado — 366K
67 Arizona — 337K
69 Oregon State — 321K
76 California — 222K
77 Syracuse — 219K
84 Boston College — 156K
97 Duke — 64K
 
#45
#45
RDU VOL#14 said:
UNC is the 2nd place runner up behind Notre Dame for the most coveted brand. Personally, I hope they never get an SEC invite. Their fake ass “is it November yet”?football fans don’t deserve the benefit and prestige of playing in our conference.
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I'd love to see a rivalry develop between UT and UNC in both football and basketball. The happenstance of conference association is the reason why it hasn't. We even recruit the same territory for football.
 
#46
#46
volbound1700 said:
It isn't about that, it is about the value they drive and their fanbase size. Geography isn't as important anymore because people stream and we have moved away from regional broadcasts.

Clemson ranks 19th in viewership (1.74 million viewers per game) and FSU 25th (1.27 million viewers per game)

Miami is 35th (1.038 million viewers per game), North Carolina 36th (1.032 million viewers per game), and Virginia 52nd (611,000 viewers per game).

Based on these stats, FSU > Miami. FSU sells more merchandise, sells out their games, and has more viewers. No way SEC picks Miami over FSU.

Here was a breakdown provided by the Georgia fan in that thread explaining potential candidates (He also listed OU, Texas, UCLA, and USC for some reason even though they already moved)

6 Oklahoma — 3.46M
9 Notre Dame — 2.84M
10 Oregon — 2.57M
13 Texas — 2.26M
19 Clemson — 1.74M
22 Oklahoma State — 1.58M
25 Florida State — 1.27M
28 Cincinnati — 1.216M
29 UCLA — 1.18M
32 Southern Cal — 1.11M
35 Miami — 1.038M
36 North Carolina — 1.032M
37 Utah — 994K
38 Washington — 985K
40 West Virginia — 948K
46 Stanford — 778K
47 Arizona State — 739K
49 Boise State — 657K
51 Louisville — 616K
52 Virginia — 611K
54 Pittsburgh — 550K
55 Kansas — 540K
56 Wake Forest — 526K
57 NC State — 525K
59 Washington State — 483K
61 Georgia Tech — 459K
62 Virginia Tech — 447K
64 Colorado — 366K
67 Arizona — 337K
69 Oregon State — 321K
76 California — 222K
77 Syracuse — 219K
84 Boston College — 156K
97 Duke — 64K
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So much of this though is driven by the SEC Network. By adding Clemson and FSU, you don't bring that channel into any new homes. I think you would if you bring in some North Carolina or Virginia schools. Clemson, despite their massive success on the field the last several years, actually doesn't bring a huge amount to the SEC's table to justify the share of the pie they'd take.

SEC Network expansion is 100% how Mizzou got into this conference and a big reason why A&M got in - it sure as hell wasn't based on Mizzou's fanbase size or other value they bring (which are negligible).
 
#47
#47
05_never_again said:
So much of this though is driven by the SEC Network. By adding Clemson and FSU, you don't bring that channel into any new homes. I think you would if you bring in some North Carolina or Virginia schools. Clemson, despite their massive success on the field the last several years, actually doesn't bring a huge amount to the SEC's table to justify the share of the pie they'd take.
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That is wrong now. People stream. That is 2010/2011 thinking but it isn't the case anymore. Why did we add Texas if we already had Texas A&M? Brands drive it. People tune in to watch Clemson and FSU.

Going off my numbers, if Clemson and FSU join the SEC, you get ~3.4 Million viewers perhaps interested in tuning into games and signing up for SEC Network.

Miami definitely fits the bill as well but you won't get the viewership that you get with FSU. Not to mention SEC is already all over Florida.

Brands drive the market now. Cable/Satellite is dead. People will want to buy the games of teams that interest them. Clemson and FSU are more interesting football brands than Miami and UNC and have larger fanbases that are going to subscribe to SEC Network, ESPN, etc.
 
#48
#48
volbound1700 said:
That is wrong now. People stream. That is 2010/2011 thinking but it isn't the case anymore. Why did we add Texas if we already had Texas A&M? Brands drive it. People tune in to watch Clemson and FSU.

Going off my numbers, if Clemson and FSU join the SEC, you get ~3.4 Million viewers perhaps interested in tuning into games and signing up for SEC Network.

Miami definitely fits the bill as well but you won't get the viewership that you get with FSU. Not to mention SEC is already all over Florida.

Brands drive the market now. Cable/Satellite is dead. People will want to buy the games of teams that interest them. Clemson and FSU are more interesting football brands than Miami and UNC and have larger fanbases that are going to subscribe to SEC Network, ESPN, etc.
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Texas is a huge state. A&M is more of an East Texas/Houston fanbase while Texas fans live statewide, particularly in/around Austin and Dallas. Those areas of the state were not in the SEC's footprint. They will be once Texas joins.

I agree with what you are saying, but the conference network angle of this is still a huge driver. I don't see how the transition from cable to streaming changes that; they still want to expand the reach of the channel. Non-conference teams that reside within your conference's footprint, even if they are big brands, don't actually bring a huge amount to the table. Schools outside of that footprint, even if they are not elite programs or brands (like Mizzou), potentially bring quite a bit.
 
#49
#49
05_never_again said:
I'd love to see a rivalry develop between UT and UNC in both football and basketball. The happenstance of conference association is the reason why it hasn't. We even recruit the same territory for football.
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I would be happy to see a rivalry develop between Tennessee and them. However, I don’t want them to be able to play the SEC card in recruiting . I’d love for them to be cross conference rival like a lot of other SEC teams have with the ACC. I’d be in Kenan every other year ready to roll those clowns.
 
#50
#50
volbound1700 said:
That is wrong now. People stream. That is 2010/2011 thinking but it isn't the case anymore. Why did we add Texas if we already had Texas A&M? Brands drive it. People tune in to watch Clemson and FSU...

Brands drive the market now. Cable/Satellite is dead. People will want to buy the games of teams that interest them. Clemson and FSU are more interesting football brands than Miami and UNC and have larger fanbases that are going to subscribe to SEC Network, ESPN, etc.
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People stream, but the numbers still show that more people watch live sports via over-the-air, satellite, and cable. Plus, when it comes to packages (including steaming services like Sling and YouTube TV), it doesn't matter whether a subscriber is actually watching the channel for it to make money. The services pay per subscriber fees. So it is absolutely true to say that new markets are driving these decisions.
 
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