VolFan4Life87
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In all honesty...
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grimvol
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IMO...and it is sad to say....I do think Dooley will get another year..as bad is it will be....I think he will be here next year...because I don't think Jon will give up what he has to come here at this time....and next year with Dooley will be...well...not even laughable......remember...everybody said THIS YEAR!!!!2012 was gonna be THE year because of the teams UT played and how GA and FL was going to be weak......well we saw how that played out...next year?...DAYUM!!!!
VolFan4Life87
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Surely that's reason enough to get rid of him right? I mean, as if there isn't already enough of a reason to oust him. Gruden or no, there are plenty of coaches that can do far better with this team than Dooley could ever dream of doing.
What would be the logical reason for bringing him back next season? Is there ANYONE out there that believes the "it's a process" bullsh*t and that just a few more years and Dooley will have us competing for the east?
Escape Goat
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Tenacguy50
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Escape Goat
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Escape Goat
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For everyone wanting him fired before the season is over, who would be the interim head coach? Sunseri? Offense is better but do we really want to dilute Chaney's time and focus? Special teams coach - we saw the deer in the headlights look when Dooley was in the press box. Bashing Dooley or anyone else at this point is not going to fix this season. Let's give Hart a chance to earn his money.
Titan&Volfan4life
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The process bulls**t as you call it happens to be factual.
If you talk to nick saTan or any other top college football coach they will all tell you that rebuilding to become a top program or to maintain a top program is a specific PROCESS.
NFL is totally different because you either draft your players or you BUY your players when they're free agents.
College is a tough recruiting process and then a training process, then real game experience process, healthy eating and weight training process, ect, ect.
Also now in college we are limited to only 25 recruits per year where back in the Fulmer days he could bring in 35 or 40 new recruits whenever we had enough openings.
CDD said you have to water the bamboo and for most people here on VN that went right over their heads and they're clueless about what he meant.
That's the recruiting, training, teaching PROCESS and everything else involved to getting young recruits and constantly working on getting more recruits every year and then the number of years it takes for each kid to finally learn everything until suddenly the lightbulb comes on and they have their breakout season.
Every season there will be many kids we never heard of that suddenly figures it all out and they have their breakout season and suddenly they're a superstar on their team...Sometimes it's a Soph but most of the time it happens in the Junior or Senior years and the no named nobody backup explodes onto the scene and is a fast rising star just because the coaches kept watering him with tips and training and suddenly the kid got it and all the pieces came together.
College football is all about processes and 1 of the most important is the constant all year round recruiting and evaluating of high school talent for every position that you have openings to fill.
First you have to build a really good team and after that you just have to recruit to fill the positions of the kids that either graduate or leave early for the NFL and maintaining a good program is a little easier that building a good program from scratch.
VFL...GBO!!!
OrangeByBirth
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Actually, maintaining a good program is a LOT easier. Building a good program from scratch takes a long time. Look at how long it took SMU to recover from the "death penalty." Look through the polls at the top 25 each week. None of them are new programs.
The meltdown is obvious. The methodology of the meltdown is endemic to the era. It is all about NOW. It is also about shouting down any opposition rather than debating. When UT lost tough games to upper echelon teams, it wasn't enough that the team played them to close, competitive decisions. However, when UT wins a close game all hell breaks loose! The same folks that debunked the concept of moral victories have suddenly embraced the idea of moral defeats!! UT won. That is a step in the process ... learning how to win. It is a key and important step. It is something to build upon.
Firing Dooley to fire Dooley will only result in firing Dooley. Unless there is a guaranteed "home-run" type of hire (and I don't think there is but one) committed, I don't see it happening. If the big one is committed, then it is only a matter of timing. However, I wonder if the meltdown will allow Dooley to ever reach a level of acceptance necessary to recruit; to win; and to thrive.
Titan&Volfan4life
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Excellent points my friend.
Be very careful though because you and I making good, intelligent, logical posts back to back may put alot of people around here on overload and they'll want to burn us both at the stake, LOL.
I have serious doubts that the "want it NOW" mentality we have so much of nowdays will ever give any coach the time needed to rebuild us back to a consistent top 10 to 15 powerhouse that we all want and expect most seasons.
Most people are simply clueless about what all it takes and how long it takes to totally rebuild a college football program back up to a powerhouse in the SEC when they've become 1 of the worst programs in the country.
I also concur that we should either get a HOMERUN hire of a great coach that's also a proven great recruiter or we should keep CDD another year, save the money and keep looking for that HOMERUN hire in case CDD can't get it done next year.
Firing CDD just to hire another CDD is ignorance and will set us back another 4 or 5 or more years when we have to get another coach.
I will admit I'm impressed at how well our running game is doing after being so pathetic last year.
If CDD stays and he gets our Defence fixed just half as well as he fixed our running game then we'll be a tough team to beat next year.
I really don't care if we go after another coach because that's fine with me but we better get the homerun hire because I won't live another 10 years and I want to see us going after another SEC Championship and maybe another National Championship and I sure as h3ll want to see us beat nick saTan.
VFL...GBO!!!
gasguy98
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utkell65
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Sorry for the long post in advance.
As much as I would like to see Dooley and Sal gone by Monday, I don't think it happens until the end of the season. If Hart wouldn't fire them after the loss to SC, then I don't think he'll fire them while they are winning ( I hate to call yesterday a win, but that's what the scoreboard said at the end of the game).
T&V4life, yes building this program back up is a process, but that process may be that Dooley has taken this team as far as his abilities will allow and it's now time to find another coach that can take what he has done here (and he has done some good things here) and take it to the next level of that building process.
If Dooley had come here as a winning coach, which he wasn't and had a rough first year and shown improvement in his second season, which he really didn't (not in the W/L column where it matters most) and then beaten say MSU and SC this year, then he may have survived to fight another year. Having said that, he is 0-5 starting out in SEC play again (which we have now joined the ranks of Vandy as the only other SEC team to ever go three straight years of 0-5 to start SEC play) and the only somewhat quality team that we have beaten is NCST. We let Akron hang around for a little over 3 quarters before we finally put them away and then yesterday we let Troy hang around the whole game and torch our defense for new records. Those guys weren't the Trojans from the left coast, those were the Trojans from the sun belt.
Sal was Dooley's hire (although I believe that Hart was probably all for the hire) and even by Dooley's on admission, he has not interfered with Sal and the defense. As the HC if you have a part of the team that is not performing (lord knows the defense isn't), then he should be stepping in to find out what they need or making suggestions to try and improve the defense, but he hasn't. Sorry, but that's piss poor management skills.
Also for those making the argument that we made a scheme change this year on defense to the 3-4, sorry but doesn't wash. You expect some drop off going from the 4-3 to 3-4 the first year, but you don't expect to see a free fall off the side of Mount Everest. We not only have the worse defense in the conference, but if we aren't the worse defense in the nation, we are damn close to it. Also, you expect to see at least marginal improvement as the year goes along, but if anything this defense has gotten worse. I honestly believe that the guys on defense just aren't buying what Sal is selling and even a few announcers for our games have wondered what Sal is doing scheme wise.
Another problem that Dooley has is, most (probably 85%) of his offensive production this year probably won't be back next year. So you couple a loss of all that offense with a defense that can't stop anyone and you have the makings for a 4-8 or worse team next year. The athletic department can't afford to have a season like that. Just the loss revenue from people not coming to the games would be staggering, not to mention the big money boosters cutting back on donations because they don't want to support that kind of product on the field.
So you tell me what makes more sense, go out and find a proven big name coach that can bring a staff in here that can continue the rebuilding process and win or continue to support the current staff that hasn't proven that they can get it done (at least against top teams)?
As much as I would like to see Dooley and Sal gone by Monday, I don't think it happens until the end of the season. If Hart wouldn't fire them after the loss to SC, then I don't think he'll fire them while they are winning ( I hate to call yesterday a win, but that's what the scoreboard said at the end of the game).
T&V4life, yes building this program back up is a process, but that process may be that Dooley has taken this team as far as his abilities will allow and it's now time to find another coach that can take what he has done here (and he has done some good things here) and take it to the next level of that building process.
If Dooley had come here as a winning coach, which he wasn't and had a rough first year and shown improvement in his second season, which he really didn't (not in the W/L column where it matters most) and then beaten say MSU and SC this year, then he may have survived to fight another year. Having said that, he is 0-5 starting out in SEC play again (which we have now joined the ranks of Vandy as the only other SEC team to ever go three straight years of 0-5 to start SEC play) and the only somewhat quality team that we have beaten is NCST. We let Akron hang around for a little over 3 quarters before we finally put them away and then yesterday we let Troy hang around the whole game and torch our defense for new records. Those guys weren't the Trojans from the left coast, those were the Trojans from the sun belt.
Sal was Dooley's hire (although I believe that Hart was probably all for the hire) and even by Dooley's on admission, he has not interfered with Sal and the defense. As the HC if you have a part of the team that is not performing (lord knows the defense isn't), then he should be stepping in to find out what they need or making suggestions to try and improve the defense, but he hasn't. Sorry, but that's piss poor management skills.
Also for those making the argument that we made a scheme change this year on defense to the 3-4, sorry but doesn't wash. You expect some drop off going from the 4-3 to 3-4 the first year, but you don't expect to see a free fall off the side of Mount Everest. We not only have the worse defense in the conference, but if we aren't the worse defense in the nation, we are damn close to it. Also, you expect to see at least marginal improvement as the year goes along, but if anything this defense has gotten worse. I honestly believe that the guys on defense just aren't buying what Sal is selling and even a few announcers for our games have wondered what Sal is doing scheme wise.
Another problem that Dooley has is, most (probably 85%) of his offensive production this year probably won't be back next year. So you couple a loss of all that offense with a defense that can't stop anyone and you have the makings for a 4-8 or worse team next year. The athletic department can't afford to have a season like that. Just the loss revenue from people not coming to the games would be staggering, not to mention the big money boosters cutting back on donations because they don't want to support that kind of product on the field.
So you tell me what makes more sense, go out and find a proven big name coach that can bring a staff in here that can continue the rebuilding process and win or continue to support the current staff that hasn't proven that they can get it done (at least against top teams)?
OrangeByBirth
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YankeeVol
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utkell65
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Johnny was probably the closest since he had just won a NC at Pitt, but he never got UT to that point. He did manage to win 3 SEC titles. Not great considering how long he was here and how long it took him to win the first one, but IMO it's more than we'll ever get out of Dooley. I just don't think he is a coach that can get us to the next level.
Having said that, part of the problem with the program is we have refused to go after a big name coach and be willing to pay them. If we have any hope of competing in the SEC today and in the future, it's going to take going after an SEC caliber coach (that can not only recruit, but coach the talent that is brought in) that can come in here and turn the program around and start winning. Does that mean we have to have Gruden to get that done? I don't think so. There are other coaches out there that have proven over time that they can win, but it will take money to lure them away from the programs that they are currently at.
I'll also say that past success at another school does not always guarantee that they will be successful here, but IMO they will have a much better chance than somoeone who prior to coming here had none.
hohenfelsvol
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VolinNooga14
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I do tend to feel...pardon my ignorance...that this "Process" should produce a better team in year 3 than in year 1. Offense better, defense is 10x worse. Net product = Step backwards.
Also, when 95% of your coaches jump ship after year2....I think that may speak volumes to the "Process". Just a thought.
Also, when 95% of your coaches jump ship after year2....I think that may speak volumes to the "Process". Just a thought.
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What makes me sick is that we probably wouldn't be in this situation without the crappy defense. He's obviously done a good job with the offense. That offense combined with at least a decent defense, and we'd be winning games and everyone would be singing Dooley's praises.
I see a good thing though: The team's attitude. Everyone's all "They've gone and quit again this year" but they haven't! I watch their interviews after games and yes, the defense is frustrated, and yes they want to win, but they haven't fallen apart. No one is pointing fingers. They love playing the game and it is so great to watch (their attitudes, not necessarily the games
). Regardless of whether or not Dooley is kept, he's got a great team there.
I honest to God hope this week was just a fluke for the defense and not the beginning of jump off another freaking cliff...It's hard to get any worse.
I see a good thing though: The team's attitude. Everyone's all "They've gone and quit again this year" but they haven't! I watch their interviews after games and yes, the defense is frustrated, and yes they want to win, but they haven't fallen apart. No one is pointing fingers. They love playing the game and it is so great to watch (their attitudes, not necessarily the games
). Regardless of whether or not Dooley is kept, he's got a great team there. I honest to God hope this week was just a fluke for the defense and not the beginning of jump off another freaking cliff...It's hard to get any worse.
OrangeByBirth
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Majors was clearly the closest thing to a successful "big name proven" coach. Most don't realize that the freshman class that won the NC as seniors at Pitt were 85 (EIGHTY FIVE) scholarships! There was no limit at Pitt and he took advantage of that. I think I could find a few good players out of 85 a year! It was a different set of rules when he came home to UT and he struggled to make it work.
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