If Pat Summitt were the AD, would Holly still have a job?

#52

madtownvol

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#52
From a reliable source:

"The truth is that Pat was never asked by Hart whom she would like to take over her position. Pat was fired. She asked for one more season so that Tyler could be her grad assistant and they would be able to fulfill their life-long dream of coaching together. Hart said no and told her that Holly would be the new coach. There are many who say that Pat made the choice, but my very good sources tell me that Pat was never asked. Several former lady vols told me that Pat had other ideas about her successor. This was before her disease was diagnosed. I will not tell you what those plans were, but they told me that Holly was never Pat's first choice; she did, however, want her to remain as an assistant and planned to make that a condition to the new coach. Pat at that time was concerned about her arthritis and knew that she needed to start planning for the future. I was told that she would probably retire after that one year with Tyler unless her health improved and that she thought she could continue.
I do know that she wanted to win 10 championships before she stepped down. Again, she had no idea that she would have this horrible disease. She was worried about the arthritis and the pain that she was having and knew that she might not be able to continue coaching for as long as she wished. When Caldwell left, she turned recruiting over entirely to Holly so that she would not have to travel as much. Apparently, flying was hard on her arthritis.
Hart chose Holly for several reasons: he knew that the fan base would support her fully because she was a former lady vol and Pat's long-time assistant; she came very cheap because she had never been a head coach; UT was strapped with financial concerns because of the many ex-coaches that UT was still paying, so hiring an experienced coach would cost more money than Hart was willing to spend.
My post in no way should be interpreted that Pat did not give Holly her full support and encouragement, but unless my very good sources, which include members of Pat's family, Pat was never given a choice about her successor, and I do know that before she got sick, she did have an entirely different plan for whom was to be her successor."

So all the people who say Pat Summitt wanted Holly to replace her, be informed.

Uh, the timeline on this counter narrative does not really add up. CPS was officially diagnosed in May 2011. She announced her illness in August 2011 but all reports state that she was diagnosed 3 months earlier. Hart took over as AD in September 2011. So, Pat's illness was common knowledge.
During the 2011-12 season, CPS and Warlick shared head coaching duties.

CPS resigned at the end of the season stating that ""I feel like Holly's been doing the bulk of it. She deserves to be the head coach" and CPS become coach emeritus.

The timeline you present is vague but it could suggest in the one case that Hart's first order of business was to fire CPS but then let her be co-head coach for a season. That decision would be kind of strange don't you think?

But your story also suggest that CPS, when Hart came in, did not know she had Alzheimers and was most worried her arthritis. She then asked Hart for one more season to coach with Tyler (would this season have been 2011-12 or 2012-2013?). In either case, however, she would have known about her brain disease so the "reliability" of your source seems quite questionable. VERY QUESTIONABLE.
 
#53

volnationnj

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#53
From a reliable source:

"The truth is that Pat was never asked by Hart whom she would like to take over her position. Pat was fired. She asked for one more season so that Tyler could be her grad assistant and they would be able to fulfill their life-long dream of coaching together. Hart said no and told her that Holly would be the new coach. There are many who say that Pat made the choice, but my very good sources tell me that Pat was never asked. Several former lady vols told me that Pat had other ideas about her successor. This was before her disease was diagnosed. I will not tell you what those plans were, but they told me that Holly was never Pat's first choice; she did, however, want her to remain as an assistant and planned to make that a condition to the new coach. Pat at that time was concerned about her arthritis and knew that she needed to start planning for the future. I was told that she would probably retire after that one year with Tyler unless her health improved and that she thought she could continue.
I do know that she wanted to win 10 championships before she stepped down. Again, she had no idea that she would have this horrible disease. She was worried about the arthritis and the pain that she was having and knew that she might not be able to continue coaching for as long as she wished. When Caldwell left, she turned recruiting over entirely to Holly so that she would not have to travel as much. Apparently, flying was hard on her arthritis.
Hart chose Holly for several reasons: he knew that the fan base would support her fully because she was a former lady vol and Pat's long-time assistant; she came very cheap because she had never been a head coach; UT was strapped with financial concerns because of the many ex-coaches that UT was still paying, so hiring an experienced coach would cost more money than Hart was willing to spend.
My post in no way should be interpreted that Pat did not give Holly her full support and encouragement, but unless my very good sources, which include members of Pat's family, Pat was never given a choice about her successor, and I do know that before she got sick, she did have an entirely different plan for whom was to be her successor."

So all the people who say Pat Summitt wanted Holly to replace her, be informed.
Only speculation on my part but...
If the scenario you paint is accurate, than the only conclusion I can come to is that Pat wanted Tyler to succeed her as head coach of the LV"s after a short stint as an assistant.
 
#54

madtownvol

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#54
Only speculation on my part but...
If the scenario you paint is accurate, than the only conclusion I can come to is that Pat wanted Tyler to succeed her as head coach of the LV"s after a short stint as an assistant.
The scenario is not accurate. Please don't play into this effort to somehow suggest that Holly is all Hart's doing. This narrative has BS written all over it. The proposed timeline is completely wrong.
 
#55

Franklin Pierce

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#55
From a reliable source:

"The truth is that Pat was never asked by Hart whom she would like to take over her position. Pat was fired. She asked for one more season so that Tyler could be her grad assistant and they would be able to fulfill their life-long dream of coaching together. Hart said no and told her that Holly would be the new coach. There are many who say that Pat made the choice, but my very good sources tell me that Pat was never asked. Several former lady vols told me that Pat had other ideas about her successor. This was before her disease was diagnosed. I will not tell you what those plans were, but they told me that Holly was never Pat's first choice; she did, however, want her to remain as an assistant and planned to make that a condition to the new coach. Pat at that time was concerned about her arthritis and knew that she needed to start planning for the future. I was told that she would probably retire after that one year with Tyler unless her health improved and that she thought she could continue.
I do know that she wanted to win 10 championships before she stepped down. Again, she had no idea that she would have this horrible disease. She was worried about the arthritis and the pain that she was having and knew that she might not be able to continue coaching for as long as she wished. When Caldwell left, she turned recruiting over entirely to Holly so that she would not have to travel as much. Apparently, flying was hard on her arthritis.
Hart chose Holly for several reasons: he knew that the fan base would support her fully because she was a former lady vol and Pat's long-time assistant; she came very cheap because she had never been a head coach; UT was strapped with financial concerns because of the many ex-coaches that UT was still paying, so hiring an experienced coach would cost more money than Hart was willing to spend.
My post in no way should be interpreted that Pat did not give Holly her full support and encouragement, but unless my very good sources, which include members of Pat's family, Pat was never given a choice about her successor, and I do know that before she got sick, she did have an entirely different plan for whom was to be her successor."

So all the people who say Pat Summitt wanted Holly to replace her, be informed.
Is your "reliable source" CNN?
 
#57

LAVol1

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#57
If pat were still coach, her results would be the same as Holly’s. Pat benefited from lack of competion.
Anyone who thinks Pat would have put up with the loafing, stupid mistakes and underperforming that is today's LVs is delusional. They would be tougher mentally and physically. Pat would have beaten UK and UGA by double digits with same personnel. Holly is not good enough to coach the LVs.
 
#59

VOLPAT

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#59
From a reliable source:

"Pat was basically fired and Hart chose Holly, not Pat. Pat asked for another year so that she could coach with her son, as a graduate assistant, but Hart said no. Pat was completely supportive of Holly, but in actuality, Hart made the choice, not Pat. It is revisionist history to think that Pat had any say so in her successor. Hart told Pat that she could be the emeritus coach and Pat felt that with her illness, she could not "demand" anything."

So all the people who say Pat Summitt wanted Holly to replace her, be informed.

Pat was fired and Hart was the one who made the decision. What was Pat to do? Stab her friend in the back? No way.
Good to know, mcannon. Many of us believed it was Pat's choice. This clarifies a lot things and misgivings about the choice, even in the early days. Player development has been abysmal and there is just no other way to say it.
 
#60

mcannon1

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#60
The scenario is not accurate. Please don't play into this effort to somehow suggest that Holly is all Hart's doing. This narrative has BS written all over it. The proposed timeline is completely wrong.
Holly was hired by Dave Hart. Pat did NOT recommend her to be the head coach. After Hart had Pat in tears by telling her she would not be the coach for another year, and informed her that he was hiring Holly, Pat publicly supported her friend. But she did NOT recommend Holly be the head coach. Believe what you want. You are mistaken if you believe Pat Summitt recommended Holly be the head coach of the TN Lady Vols.

And read more carefully. The timeline is correct. When Nikki Caldwell left, years before Pat knew she had Alzheimer's, recruiting was turned over to Holly because Pat had developed rheumatoid arthritis. Years later, after Pat was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, she wanted to be head coach 1 more year and have Tyler as her graduate assistant. Hart said no. He demoted Pat to head coach emeritus, and hired Holly as head coach.
 
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#61

mcannon1

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#61
Uh, the timeline on this counter narrative does not really add up. CPS was officially diagnosed in May 2011. She announced her illness in August 2011 but all reports state that she was diagnosed 3 months earlier. Hart took over as AD in September 2011. So, Pat's illness was common knowledge.
During the 2011-12 season, CPS and Warlick shared head coaching duties.

CPS resigned at the end of the season stating that ""I feel like Holly's been doing the bulk of it. She deserves to be the head coach" and CPS become coach emeritus.

The timeline you present is vague but it could suggest in the one case that Hart's first order of business was to fire CPS but then let her be co-head coach for a season. That decision would be kind of strange don't you think?

But your story also suggest that CPS, when Hart came in, did not know she had Alzheimers and was most worried her arthritis. She then asked Hart for one more season to coach with Tyler (would this season have been 2011-12 or 2012-2013?). In either case, however, she would have known about her brain disease so the "reliability" of your source seems quite questionable. VERY QUESTIONABLE.
You need to read more carefully.
 
#62

Franklin Pierce

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#62
Holly was hired by Dave Hart. Pat did NOT recommend her to be the head coach. After Hart had Pat in tears by telling her she would not be the coach for another year, and informed her that he was hiring Holly, Pat publicly supported her friend. But she did NOT recommend Holly be the head coach. Believe what you want. You are mistaken if you believe Pat Summitt recommended Holly be the head coach of the TN Lady Vols.

And read more carefully. The timeline is correct. When Nikki Caldwell left, years before Pat knew she had Alzheimer's, recruiting was turned over to Holly because Pat had developed rheumatoid arthritis. Years later, after Pat was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, she wanted to be head coach 1 more year and have Tyler as her graduate assistant. Hart said no. He demoted Pat to head coach emeritus, and hired Holly as head coach.
And I bet you were there when all of this Supposedly happened! ;)
 
#63

madtownvol

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#63
You need to read more carefully.
Do I, now?

The issue with Nikki Caldwell is not relevant. No one was questioning that CPS was struggling with her arthritis back in 2006 and 2007.

The relevant matters are what happened after CPS was officially diagnosed with Alzheimers in May 2011.

During the 2011-2012 season, Tyler was a redshirt sophomore playing for the men vols Tyler and the vols in 2011-2012

So, we are supposed to believe that CPS wanted Tyler to stop playing ball or drop out of school to be her assistant?

Also, in 2011-2012, CPS was co-head coach with Holly. So, which year (2011-12 or 2012-13?) did she supposedly make this request to Hart.

In this latest version of your story, it seems that the request was for the 2012-2013 season. So, was CPS's plan to be co-head coach again with Holly and have Tyler drop out of school to be her and Holly's assistant? THAT was her dream?

Also in 2012, CPS publicly resigned and stated that Holly "had done all the work and deserved to be head coach." So, you are also proposing that, a women known for her high integrity, lied to save face. There are many other ways she could have hedged her statement to not sell out Holly but also not lie about resigning, since she was fired demoted (Per your 3rd revision of the original narrative). [Keep trying, you will may eventually tell a tale that at least makes some logical sense]

As it stands, however, none of your suggested timeline and alleged events pertaining to Pat's diagnosis with Alzheimers and Holly taking over as head coach add up.

And finally, let's think about this bombshell revelation. Presumably, this information has been so TOP SECRET that none of the many reporters covering Vols sports, and all the chaos surrounding the Dave Hart years, have ever gotten wind of it.

And this story sure would sell papers and draw clicks - "The truth behind Pat Summitt's final days." John Adams, no fan of Holly, would love this scoop.

But no, the "reliable sources" with inside knowledge have been living by the maxim that "loose lips sink ships" but, as fate would have it, this one insider told you all about it so you could go blabbing on a message board.

My my, my, very credible indeed.

Again, I suggest that you reconsider your "reliable source" and perhaps refrain from posting this complete and utter BS.
 
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#65

mcannon1

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#65
Do I, now?

The issue with Nikki Caldwell is not relevant. No one was questioning that CPS was struggling with her arthritis back in 2006 and 2007.

The relevant matters are what happened after CPS was officially diagnosed with Alzheimers in May 2011.

During the 2011-2012 season, Tyler was a redshirt sophomore playing for the men vols Tyler and the vols in 2011-2012

So, we are supposed to believe that CPS wanted Tyler to stop playing ball or drop out of school to be her assistant?

Also, in 2011-2012, CPS was co-head coach with Holly. So, which year (2011-12 or 2012-13?) did she supposedly make this request to Hart.

In this latest version of your story, it seems that the request was for the 2012-2013 season. So, was CPS's plan to be co-head coach again with Holly and have Tyler drop out of school to be her and Holly's assistant? THAT was her dream?

Also in 2012, CPS publicly resigned and stated that Holly "had done all the work and deserved to be head coach." So, you are also proposing that, a women known for her high integrity, lied to save face. There are many other ways she could have hedged her statement to not sell out Holly but also not lie about resigning, since she was fired demoted (Per your 3rd revision of the original narrative). [Keep trying, you will may eventually tell a tale that at least makes some logical sense]

As it stands, however, none of your suggested timeline and alleged events pertaining to Pat's diagnosis with Alzheimers and Holly taking over as head coach add up.

And finally, let's think about this bombshell revelation. Presumably, this information has been so TOP SECRET that none of the many reporters covering Vols sports, and all the chaos surrounding the Dave Hart years, have ever gotten wind of it.

And this story sure would sell papers and draw clicks - "The truth behind Pat Summitt's final days." John Adams, no fan of Holly, would love this scoop.

But no, the "reliable sources" with inside knowledge have been living by the maxim that "loose lips sink ships" but, as fate would have it, this one insider told you all about it so you could go blabbing on a message board.

My my, my, very credible indeed.

Again, I suggest that you reconsider your "reliable source" and perhaps refrain from posting this complete and utter BS.

Tyler Summitt graduated from UT in 2012. Pat Summitt was named head coach emeritus on April 18, 2012. You are posting inaccurately. My source is credible. Your info is incorrect.
 
#66

madtownvol

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#66
You are correct on Tyler's graduation date. And this led me to this news report on his hiring at Marquette:

Marquette women's basketball head coach Terri Mitchellis pleased to announce the hiring of Tyler Summitt as an assistant coach. Summitt will begin his duties on May 21, 2012.

Summitt, son of legendary Tennessee head coach Pat Summitt, will be responsible for the development of MU's guards in addition to recruiting and on-court coaching.

"I am excited to welcome Tyler to our family," said Mitchell. "He has grown up in a championship environment and has been part of women's basketball his entire life. Tyler has tremendous passion and knowledge of our game. We look forward to working with him."

Summitt spent two seasons as a member of the Tennessee men's basketball team (2010-12), where he earned SEC Academic Honor Roll accolades, and spent one season (2009-10) as a student assistant coach on the Lady Vols' bench under his mother's tutelage.

Tyler_Marquette assistant head coach
 
#67

Volfan2012

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#67
Not hard for me to believe that Pat would want Holly to be head coach at least in the beginning. I doubt that she would want her to keep the job now she would see that her ability is not to the level needed to keep the program at the top.
 
#68

Prophet1

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#68
From a reliable source:

"Pat was basically fired and Hart chose Holly, not Pat. Pat asked for another year so that she could coach with her son, as a graduate assistant, but Hart said no. Pat was completely supportive of Holly, but in actuality, Hart made the choice, not Pat. It is revisionist history to think that Pat had any say so in her successor. Hart told Pat that she could be the emeritus coach and Pat felt that with her illness, she could not "demand" anything."

So all the people who say Pat Summitt wanted Holly to replace her, be informed.

Pat was fired and Hart was the one who made the decision. What was Pat to do? Stab her friend in the back? No way.
Wowww... mind blowing.
 
#69

Coach Jumper

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#69
Not hard for me to believe that Pat would want Holly to be head coach at least in the beginning. I doubt that she would want her to keep the job now she would see that her ability is not to the level needed to keep the program at the top.
They're just one person away: they need an excellent skills coach, who can read players, who can improve communication and continuity and can use their influence to help the rest of the org to come to a same vision...
If they don't have one on staff, I can be there tomorrow.
 
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#71

Prophet1

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#71
Holly was hired by Dave Hart. Pat did NOT recommend her to be the head coach. After Hart had Pat in tears by telling her she would not be the coach for another year, and informed her that he was hiring Holly, Pat publicly supported her friend. But she did NOT recommend Holly be the head coach. Believe what you want. You are mistaken if you believe Pat Summitt recommended Holly be the head coach of the TN Lady Vols.

And read more carefully. The timeline is correct. When Nikki Caldwell left, years before Pat knew she had Alzheimer's, recruiting was turned over to Holly because Pat had developed rheumatoid arthritis. Years later, after Pat was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, she wanted to be head coach 1 more year and have Tyler as her graduate assistant. Hart said no. He demoted Pat to head coach emeritus, and hired Holly as head coach.
How in the HELL do you treat a Legend like this. Hart needed his a@$# kicked if this truth.
 
#72

CoryDallasLV

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#72
Tyler Summitt graduated from UT in 2012. Pat Summitt was named head coach emeritus on April 18, 2012. You are posting inaccurately. My source is credible. Your info is incorrect.
This exact story has been circulating for years from many sources, but I honestly have no idea if it's credible or not.
 
#73

Sugaray13

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#73
This post is 100% right , I loved Pat she did a lot great work for TN BB and the womens game. She had great talent every year, Holly is running same offense Pat ran. All elite teams
women and men take ball to the basket Tn never does that until shot clock is running down then they drive into a wall defenders or pass to wing player for desperation 3 pt. Womens BB
has improved thru yrs sadly Tn BB has not followed we are stuck in the past.[/QUOTE

While I agree there is more parity in the women's game now than when Pat was coaching but you could tell Pat's team were very well coached. You could tell by watching them the fundamentals of the game were being taught. The players respected Pat and not sure that's the case now.
 
#74

madtownvol

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#74
This exact story has been circulating for years from many sources, but I honestly have no idea if it's credible or not.
It turns out there has been some reporting on the issue. The story stems from an affidavit that CPS gave as part of the Debby Jennings lawsuit. In the first part of her statement, CPS clearly states that Hart, in effect, forced her out. She goes on to note that she told several people about this unwanted event, including Debby Jennings. Then, her last statement in the affidavit reports that she had another meeting with Hart who told her that she had misinterpreted what he said.

Subsequently, she made this public statement in response to her affadivit having gone public:

It was entirely my decision to step down from my position as Head Coach of women's basketball at the University of Tennessee," Summitt said. "As I stated at my press conference in April when I announced my decision, I loved being the Head Coach for 38 years, but, after consultation with my son, my doctors, my lawyer, and several close friends, I concluded that the time had come to move into the future and step into a new role.

"I did not then, and I do not now, feel that I was "forced out" by the University. Anyone who knows me knows that any such effort would have met with resistance. If my affidavit has caused confusion on that point, it needs to be dispelled."

Details here: Is it possible that Pat Summitt was forced out
 

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