I Wanna Work For This Guy! The 40 Hr Work Week

#1
NorthDallas40

NorthDallas40

Displaced Hillbilly
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#1
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/06/success/jason-fried-basecamp-work/index.html

So I’m in engineering. An industry notorious for people who supposedly willingly work 50+ hour weeks gladly while on salary... except that stereotype really doesn’t apply anymore.

I try to be in the office no more than 40 hrs a week. I’ll do some cleanup/planning while sitting on the couch in the evening. And this is weeknights. I’m fiercely protective of my weekends. But I’m also a senior engineer. My objectives are more outcome driven rather than task/schedule driven. And in my pay grade my incentives reflect that. IE the bastards know how to get me beyond that 40 hr value even if I’m not in the office doing so.

Discuss...
 
#3
#3
lawgator1 said:
Millenials are lazy.
Click to expand...
Stop it.

But since you brought it up... they do have a different view on the office environment and the work/life balance. We’re all getting crammed into a “collaborative work environment” because the younger engineers want it! Except they don’t. They hate it as bad as we do.

But they do seem to be much more fiercely protective of their free time than my young engineering generation was. I literally pulled all nighters in my 20’s. Work on system integration all night for new designs and head up the street to a strip club for free lunch and some eye candy before sleeping for about 16 hours.

The current generation? No damn way. And good for them.

My generation: I’m 54. Engineering intern in 1984 thru 1987 and degreed engineer since 1988. This is my 30th year in da biz
 
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#4
#4
NorthDallas40 said:
Stop it.

But since you brought it up... they do have a different view on the office environment and the work/life balance. We’re all getting crammed into a “collaborative work environment” because the younger engineers want it! Except they don’t. They hate it as bad as we do.

But they do seem to be much more fiercely protective of their free time than my young engineering generation was. I literally pulled all nighters in my 20’s. Work on system integration all night for new designs and head up the street to a strip club for free lunch and some eye candy before sleeping for about 16 hours.

The current generation? No damn way. And good for them.

My generation: I’m 54. Engineering intern in 1984 thru 1987 and degreed engineer since 1988. This is my 30th year in da biz
Click to expand...


I'm 54, been doing this for 25 years and I still work nights and weekends. It equates to success. Not by itself, but it certainly helps.
 
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#6
#6
lawgator1 said:
I'm 54, been doing this for 25 years and I still work nights and weekends. It equates to success. Not by itself, but it certainly helps.
Click to expand...
I still have periods where I’ll work long hours. For example a flight test program. Usually 12+ hour days 5-6 days a week. It’s just par for the course for an event like that.

But that’s the exception not the rule. And I won’t pull an all nighter. I don’t have the stamina anymore.

But again I hang out with a bunch of other engineers. To put it mildly we’re not normal people. We see the world totally different than most other people. And I’ve been told by lawyers we scare the hell out of them. Both men and women engineers.

But while our young engineers still view the world similarly to how I do they have that newer approach to work life balance. I know some amazing young people and I won’t call them lazy but they are fiercely protective of their personal time now. Much like I am but it took me a while to evolve this.

But again... there are still certain events that will require heroics and we do them. They are the exception not the rule though.
 
#8
#8
lawgator1 said:
I'm 54, been doing this for 25 years and I still work nights and weekends. It equates to success. Not by itself, but it certainly helps.
Click to expand...
I am with LG on this.
I also think the ceo in the link is not a real work example as he is a tech field ceo who designed a software.
If he owned a chain of restaurants or law firm or something else he is pulling in more than 40 a week.
I am also very close friends with a forecaster who does projections for fortune 100 companies. Dude puts in 65 plus a week,

You can be an employee and work 40 but if u arena owner or high level ex 50 plus is the norm.
 
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#10
#10
NorthDallas40 said:
I still have periods where I’ll work long hours. For example a flight test program. Usually 12+ hour days 5-6 days a week. It’s just par for the course for an event like that.

But that’s the exception not the rule. And I won’t pull an all nighter. I don’t have the stamina anymore.

But again I hang out with a bunch of other engineers. To put it mildly we’re not normal people. We see the world totally different than most other people. And I’ve been told by lawyers we scare the hell out of them. Both men and women engineers.

But while our young engineers still view the world similarly to how I do they have that newer approach to work life balance. I know some amazing young people and I won’t call them lazy but they are fiercely protective of their personal time now. Much like I am but it took me a while to evolve this.

But again... there are still certain events that will require heroics and we do them. They are the exception not the rule though.
Click to expand...

My best friend since 7th grade is a nuke engineer and is head of procedure at the hatch plant. Dude is just wired different.
Hard to explain but he is just wired so damn different than me yet we are like twins...it’s weird.

Side note, before they closed their pool and park area to save a buck southern power had a nice pool for the employees right next to the back of the plant.

I can honestly say swimming with my buddy with his reactor behind us was weird. Just normal to him though.
 
#12
#12
lawgator1 said:
I'm 54, been doing this for 25 years and I still work nights and weekends. It equates to success. Not by itself, but it certainly helps.
Click to expand...

Normal work weeks, I do about 45 hours. I tend to come into the office early. I do not like to work nights. I don't mind some weekend time. Trial periods are my times that I have to really work a lot. Which usually means getting to the office by 5am (still leave by 5pm) and working 16+ hours on the weekends.

I turned down big firm money and hours because of my daughter.
 
#13
#13
NorthDallas40 said:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/06/success/jason-fried-basecamp-work/index.html

So I’m in engineering. An industry notorious for people who supposedly willingly work 50+ hour weeks gladly while on salary... except that stereotype really doesn’t apply anymore.

I try to be in the office no more than 40 hrs a week. I’ll do some cleanup/planning while sitting on the couch in the evening. And this is weeknights. I’m fiercely protective of my weekends. But I’m also a senior engineer. My objectives are more outcome driven rather than task/schedule driven. And in my pay grade my incentives reflect that. IE the bastards know how to get me beyond that 40 hr value even if I’m not in the office doing so.

Discuss...
Click to expand...
My daughter is a
junior in college. Studying mechanical engineering. Im hoping her and her boyfriend (engineer major, too) are able to better balance career and personal life better than our generation did. I think we did better than our parents where they worked for one company throughout.
 
#14
#14
I think most engineers have no mechanical skills, meaning if you design something, make it easier for the mechanic to work on.
I proposed a change to a TO (tech order) on the C-130H aircraft, had 2 Lockheed engineers come to the base and I showed them the time management difference and how many man hours it would save the USAF.
They thought my idea was brilliant and they said they couldn’t believe no one hadn’t figured it out. I told them it’s because it looked good on paper but the final design sucked because engineers didn’t have to do the maintenance.
Within a year I got a $5000 check award and the whole fleet eventually got modified when the aircraft went to depot for maintenance.
 
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#15
#15
Yeah...bought a dodge journey SUV because it was 7 passenger and the only 1 we could afford at the time. Drove nice, looked decent...after we had it, had to change the battery. Its in the WHEEL WELL. You have to remove the drivers front tire, open up the wheel well at front, and take it out. Sits 5 or 6 inches above the ground. Aside from being the stupidest crap ever, what if you run into a flooded place on the road? 1 foot of water and the battery is submerged. That would work out great. There is an engineer somewhere that thought that was OK...my brother is a nuke engineer, my son may be as well. Cool field, but like any other there are some bad apples
 
#17
#17
So no clear consus other than “engineers are weird”?

I’d also submit I was probably the last tech generation that came in without growing up with computers. We always had mainframes but no handy word processing power point or excel. Today, if I lost a tool called Matlab and they took my highly portable dynamic signal analyzer I’d probably quit.

So I think while my total average hrs on a weekly basis are probably lower my productively is way higher than in my 20’s and maybe early 30’s.

Another thing on corporate America dealing with youth. While we are technically salaried we now generally pay overtime. It’s straight time and 0-5 hrs are free but at 6 hrs you get paid for all 6. Plus you can roll over “comp time” if you don’t hit 6. This was unheard of in my youth and it seems to be a norm in our industry now.
 
#18
#18
I'm in the commercial insurance business and have been since 2005.
My client base is established and I probably average a little less than 40 hours a week, but this needs to change. It started when my mother got really sick.... then after she passed.... my dad was sick for a year.... plus I've got a middle school basketball player.... I don't miss the games.... had a travel soccer player and a dance team member as well.
My extracurricular activities have slowed so I'm ramping up my workload to prepare for the next 15 years and my exit plan😁
 
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#19
#19
McDad said:
My daughter is a
junior in college. Studying mechanical engineering. Im hoping her and her boyfriend (engineer major, too) are able to better balance career and personal life better than our generation did. I think we did better than our parents where they worked for one company throughout.
Click to expand...

So you think it’s a natural evolution? Each generation gets more me time? Again I’d say technology has made my productivity way higher though.
 
#20
#20
McDad said:
My daughter is a
junior in college. Studying mechanical engineering. Im hoping her and her boyfriend (engineer major, too) are able to better balance career and personal life better than our generation did. I think we did better than our parents where they worked for one company throughout.
Click to expand...
A female engineer grad is going to call her own shots. And be on the fast track up the ladder. The inclusion/diversity mania in the STEM fields is going to be a boon to those that take advantage of it.
 
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#21
#21
NorthDallas40 said:
So you think it’s a natural evolution? Each generation gets more me time? Again I’d say technology has made my productivity way higher though.
Click to expand...
I believe it is a part of it. Also, believe more people are interested in non-traditional work...i work from home and LOVE it. Technology made it possible and because of my experience i agree that tech is a part of the evolving workplace.
 
#23
#23
lawgator1 said:
Millenials are lazy.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that Millennials are any lazier than any other generation. There are some negative characteristics to Millennials that I think are unique to their generation, but that isn't one of them. Some of the Millennial stereotypes are accurate, others are overblown or can be applied to people of all ages.

One characteristic unique to Millennials is how they view their job. Not good or bad, just unique. Maybe this is what you're getting at. Millennials are more likely than other generations to view their job as a "gig" rather than a career, and they certainly do not view their self-worth through their job. You view it as laziness but it can also been viewed as having different priorities. Millennials are fairly entrepreneurial and generally want to work, but they don't view "work" as getting a job out of college and trying to stay at that same company, or even that same industry, until the day they retire. They are much more flexible, willing to try something new, and don't have any sort of negative association with job hopping.

Proving your worth as a human being by working 50-80 hour weeks is more of a Baby Boomer stereotype that is eschewed by Millennials. IMO, a big determinant of a generation's characteristics is a desire to be different from their parents.

A negative stereotype of Millennials that I think this accurate, and perhaps this can be viewed as a form of laziness, is that they don't handle adversity well. Much poorer than other generations. If they don't deem conditions as ideal for their success, they tend to shut down, get frustrated, and look for the exit door rather quickly.
 
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#24
#24
When I was a sophomore/junior in college, I saw all my buddies getting jobs with financial firms. "I gotta work 70 hour weeks, but it's only for the first 5 years" kinda stuff, which turned out wasn't true because then they got into management. I decided I had no idea what I was going to do, but I didn't live to work, I work to live.

I'd be a lot wealthier had I gone the other way, but I'd hate life. I took a job in a field mostly unrelated to my econ degree, but it's interesting, and I work 40 hours from home, which is especially nice/helpful now that I have a baby. Some of my lost wages are offset by the fact that we only need a nanny 16 hours a week. I'm going to start working four 10's and have Fridays with the girl on my own. I also have time for side contract work, which I've been doing every month for the past 2 years. I don't even get paid well compared to my peers in my field, but they gotta go to the office and sit in traffic 60+ minutes everyday. I've turned down promotions so I can stay home.

Flexibility > salary/career

Even the 40-hour work week is arbitrary and outdated.
 
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