I think we are better

[IluvdoubleD's]

I think we are a lot better off then a lot of you guys. We are inexperienced at key positions.. true, but we are deep with inexperience. We can rotate inexperience all day long now. These guys are football guys, they eat, breath, and bath in it. We have three deep at every position. All filling a roll. We have an identity now. A passing nfl attack with speedsters everywhere, huge ass tight ends, and a significant deep threat. Every position is filled with guys that are being brought up the tennessee way and won't quit. I'm in until proven false.

 

[bamawriter]

I'm in until proven false.

Given your track record, you'll be in anyway.

 

[volfannbama]

I think we are a lot better off then a lot of you guys. We are inexperienced at key positions.. true, but we are deep with inexperience. We can rotate inexperience all day long now. These guys are football guys, they eat, breath, and bath in it. We have three deep at every position. All filling a roll. We have an identity now. A passing nfl attack with speedsters everywhere, huge ass tight ends, and a significant deep threat. Every position is filled with guys that are being brought up the tennessee way and won't quit. I'm in until proven false.

Is that the same depth that couldnt beat a 5-7 Vandy team?

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

Is that the same depth that couldnt beat a 5-7 Vandy team?

nope. I'm not sure what depth that is you are talking about. I haven't seen us this deep in a long time. Especially on defense. Lets not forget that some of these guys we are going to see this season have been groomed for several years for this. They have seen it all and have been earning their way waiting their turn. They are hungry.

 

[jlawso21]

nope. I'm not sure what depth that is you are talking about. I haven't seen us this deep in a long time. Especially on defense. Lets not forget that some of these guys we are going to see this season have been groomed for several years for this. They have seen it all and have been earning their way waiting their turn. They are hungry.

I am one of the people with orange tinted glasses, I see us being better next year.


1. We got rid of two cancers that were affecting the locker room and we expect Butch learned a coaching lesson or two in the process.

2. We had the worst string of injuries I have ever seen on any kind of team. We lost virtually all our DTs including O'Brien and Bain, so we could not stop the run. As bad as that was, and contributed to two bad losses, we had backups get reps that will help this year. I doubt we see the injury bug hit us as hard this year.

3. The offensive line will be much better this year, with experience, less injuries and maybe one freshman contributor. I believe we redshirted two or three last year. First time in 4 years we will have real depth.

4. In Butch's first 4 years we had some 4 star recruits that did not contribute, and we started with a bare cupboard. So we have had no depth, anywhere. We will this year, everywhere.

5. Though we lost Dobbs the great playmaker we also lost Dobbs the guy who could not hit someone who was open 10 yards away. Yeah, he was great, yeah he is a great ambassador for UT, and yes he got better. But with our better offensive line and the better passing talent of either Dormady or Guarantano we will be okay at QB.

6. I really believe our RB situation will be better. Yes we will miss Kamara, but not having the Hurd distraction will make this position a net break even or plus over the year.

7. The staff has been upgraded materially. If we get good coaching at DB then we will see a marked improvement in defense.

8. This recruiting class is better than many believe. Yes, I know Butch can't get out of his own way for his Butchism's like "we are recruiting 5 star hearts", but there is a lot of truth in what he says. And despite the two bad losses last year he is getting better as a coach.

Those are my orange tinted opinions/facts and I will stick with them until proven otherwise.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

^^^ this. I see all this as well. My ONLY concern right now is that we are very young now. This is mostly because 5 stars bailed on the team and put other guys in a position to leave early. But hey, that's college ball. It's getting younger and younger every year. Look at our opponents.

 

[BeardedVol]

Unfortunately, believing something doesn't make it true. Especially when you have 4 seasons of empirical evidence that greatly speak to the contrary.

 

[Mick]

I am one of the people with orange tinted glasses, I see us being better next year.


1. We got rid of two cancers that were affecting the locker room and we expect Butch learned a coaching lesson or two in the process.

2. We had the worst string of injuries I have ever seen on any kind of team. We lost virtually all our DTs including O'Brien and Bain, so we could not stop the run. As bad as that was, and contributed to two bad losses, we had backups get reps that will help this year. I doubt we see the injury bug hit us as hard this year.

3. The offensive line will be much better this year, with experience, less injuries and maybe one freshman contributor. I believe we redshirted two or three last year. First time in 4 years we will have real depth.

4. In Butch's first 4 years we had some 4 star recruits that did not contribute, and we started with a bare cupboard. So we have had no depth, anywhere. We will this year, everywhere.

5. Though we lost Dobbs the great playmaker we also lost Dobbs the guy who could not hit someone who was open 10 yards away. Yeah, he was great, yeah he is a great ambassador for UT, and yes he got better. But with our better offensive line and the better passing talent of either Dormady or Guarantano we will be okay at QB.

6. I really believe our RB situation will be better. Yes we will miss Kamara, but not having the Hurd distraction will make this position a net break even or plus over the year.

7. The staff has been upgraded materially. If we get good coaching at DB then we will see a marked improvement in defense.

8. This recruiting class is better than many believe. Yes, I know Butch can't get out of his way for his Butchism's like "we are recruiting 5 star hearts", but their is a lot of truth in what he says. And despite the two bad losses last year he is getting better as a coach.

Those are my orange tinted opinions/facts and I will stick with them until proven otherwise.

You've made VN safe from vampires with all that sunshine. Alot of unknowns so best to be in the sun until we see the darkness.

 

[Behr]

Dude gives thought in his post of honest reasons he thinks we might be better than some expect this season.

And look at the asswipe comment.

 

[volfannbama]

I am one of the people with orange tinted glasses, I see us being better next year.


1. We got rid of two cancers that were affecting the locker room and we expect Butch learned a coaching lesson or two in the process.

2. We had the worst string of injuries I have ever seen on any kind of team. We lost virtually all our DTs including O'Brien and Bain, so we could not stop the run. As bad as that was, and contributed to two bad losses, we had backups get reps that will help this year. I doubt we see the injury bug hit us as hard this year.

3. The offensive line will be much better this year, with experience, less injuries and maybe one freshman contributor. I believe we redshirted two or three last year. First time in 4 years we will have real depth.

4. In Butch's first 4 years we had some 4 star recruits that did not contribute, and we started with a bare cupboard. So we have had no depth, anywhere. We will this year, everywhere.

5. Though we lost Dobbs the great playmaker we also lost Dobbs the guy who could not hit someone who was open 10 yards away. Yeah, he was great, yeah he is a great ambassador for UT, and yes he got better. But with our better offensive line and the better passing talent of either Dormady or Guarantano we will be okay at QB.

6. I really believe our RB situation will be better. Yes we will miss Kamara, but not having the Hurd distraction will make this position a net break even or plus over the year.

7. The staff has been upgraded materially. If we get good coaching at DB then we will see a marked improvement in defense.

8. This recruiting class is better than many believe. Yes, I know Butch can't get out of his way for his Butchism's like "we are recruiting 5 star hearts", but their is a lot of truth in what he says. And despite the two bad losses last year he is getting better as a coach.

Those are my orange tinted opinions/facts and I will stick with them until proven otherwise.

Good stuff, with orange tinted glasses. They have the potential to work it out. Id just be skeptical off all this stuff working in our favor.

 

[volunator]

There is an upside and a down side to all the injuries. Upside is a lot of players got put in last year and the new has been knocked off. They now know what it takes to be a SEC player. The down side is we went through a lot of top notch players that were counted on but ended up in street clothes on the sidelines. With injuries, players leaving early for the draft and players just quitting its taken a while to build depth. I believe we finally have though. jmo

 

[Freak]

I've been in the camp that I don't think the 2017 team will be as bad as most think if we can find our quarterback early on. There's plenty of talent on this roster, which includes two top ten recruiting classes, to be in the hunt for Atlanta

Is that the same depth that couldnt beat a 5-7 Vandy team?

Or the same depth that beat Florida and Georgia. The Vandy crap has to be corrected, though. There's absolutely no excuse for losing to those guys twice. That's the biggest black mark on Butch's resume, in my opinion.

Unfortunately, believing something doesn't make it true. Especially when you have 4 seasons of empirical evidence that greatly speak to the contrary.

Nor does your interpretation of past evidence predict the future. As they say on the brokerage commercials, past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.

 

[orangerush]

Until all this depth proves it on the field, it just names on paper.

 

[BeardedVol]

Nor does your interpretation of past evidence predict the future. As they say on the brokerage commercials, past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.

And therein lies the difference been possibility and probability. Only one of those is supported by the last four seasons worth of games though.

 

[Freak]

And therein lies the difference been possibility and probability. Only one of those is supported by the last four seasons worth of games though.

What are you adding to the conversation here? Why don't you state what point it is you're trying to make?

The guy states an opinion about the team and your response is "believing something doesn't make it true?"

I think everyone is aware of that fact. Most are also aware that the future is unpredictable.

Butch's past says his teams improve from year to year more than they regress. So, folks thinking that trend will continue, based on ten seasons worth of games, is a perfectly logical conclusion to make.

 

[Dudleys87]

I think we are a lot better off then a lot of you guys. We are inexperienced at key positions.. true, but we are deep with inexperience. We can rotate inexperience all day long now. These guys are football guys, they eat, breath, and bath in it. We have three deep at every position. All filling a roll. We have an identity now. A passing nfl attack with speedsters everywhere, huge ass tight ends, and a significant deep threat. Every position is filled with guys that are being brought up the tennessee way and won't quit. I'm in until proven false.

I've seen it all now.

 

[jlawso21]

Unfortunately, believing something doesn't make it true. Especially when you have 4 seasons of empirical evidence that greatly speak to the contrary.

Most of what I stated above is empirically true, not all, but most. Most of the rest is reasoned optimism based off of things like more experience equals better performance, especially based on 18 year old young men when they are receiving intense coaching.

There is some optimism, maybe orange tinted, based on what we perceive as potential, such as a junior or red shirt freshman quarterback developing as we hope. But even then, with the coaching they have been getting and the environment they have been in watching Dobbs, I think that is a reasonable expectation.

I just can't buy into the "Vol Derangement Syndrome" I see so much around here. I believe that kind of thinking is corrosive and bleeds over into the mindset of the overall program. Maybe I choose to believe what can be better rather than what can be worse. And I am not a bleeding optimist. I spent over 30 years running automotive parts factories that were high volume, high pressure, and with a very low tolerance for excuses.

Maybe I have a soft spot for coaches because I know how difficult it is to be accountable for things you can't always control. (but I do have a limited amount of sympathy for someone who makes $4,000,000 a year) I do believe the program is still on an upward trajectory, time will tell, but I am not going to wallow in negativity.

 

[BeardedVol]

What are you adding to the conversation here? Why don't you state what point it is you're trying to make?

The guy states an opinion about the team and your response is "believing something doesn't make it true?"

I think everyone is aware of that fact. Most are also aware that the future is unpredictable.

Butch's past says his teams improve from year to year more than they regress. So, folks thinking that trend will continue, based on ten seasons worth of games, is a perfectly logical conclusion to make.

I would have thought that was obvious, but the point is that you can believe something to be true, doesn't make it true. For example, believing that having a significant portion of your football team being inexperienced, is actually a positive, when watching football on any Fall Saturday, says otherwise.

Butch's teams, in lower-tier conferences, have improved from year to year, but that does not seem to be the case now that he is in the SEC. Looking at his conference trend, 2-6, 3-5, 5-3, 4-4, given the loss of offensive and defensive production after 2016, the smart money is that Butch is on the down side of a parabolic curve, and that 2015 was his peak. I'll conceded, that if he is coaching here in the 2018 season, there's a chance that he might start the climb again, but as you pointed out, the future is unpredictable.

If CBJ had shown himself even remotely capable of the aspirations put forth in DoubleD's post, there'd be no need for people to start thread's defending his coaching ability and performance these last four seasons.

 

[BeardedVol]

Most of what I stated above is empirically true, not all, but most. Most of the rest is reasoned optimism based off of things like more experience equals better performance, especially based on 18 year old young men when they are receiving intense coaching.

Their is some optimism, maybe orange tinted, based on what we perceive as potential, such as a junior or red shirt freshman quarterback developing as we hope. But even then, with the coaching they have been getting and the environment they have been in watching Dobbs, I think that is a reasonable expectation.

I just can't buy into the "Vol Derangement Syndrome" I see so much around here. I believe that kind of thinking is corrosive and bleeds over into the mindset of the overall program. Maybe I choose to believe what can be better rather than what can be worse. And I am not a bleeding optimist. I spent over 30 years running automotive parts factories that were high volume, high pressure, and with a very low tolerance for excuses.

Maybe I have a soft spot for coaches because I know how difficult it is to be accountable for things you can't always control. (but I do have a limited amount of sympathy for someone who makes $4,000,000 a year) I do believe the program is still on an upward trajectory, time will tell, but I am not going to wallow in negativity.

What parts would you consider to be"empirically" true, and what evidence are you citing to support that postulation?

 

[jlawso21]

What parts would you consider to be"empirically" true, and what evidence are you citing to support that postulation?

1. Two cancers in the locker room are gone.

2. Injuries in 2016, worst ever.

3. No DT left at end of season.

4. Redshirted Linemen in 2016 that can play in 2017.

5. Returning OL is more experienced and deeper (lost 1).

6. Coaching changes were made OC, DB, S&C.

7. Two highly rated QBs will compete for starter.

Now you can argue that some of these things may turn out better or worse in 2017, but those are facts about the what we faced in 2016 or what will be different in 2017.

 

[Freak]

I would have thought that was obvious, but the point is that you can believe something to be true, doesn't make it true. For example, believing that having a significant portion of your football team being inexperienced, is actually a positive, when watching football on any Fall Saturday, says otherwise.

Butch's teams, in lower-tier conferences, have improved from year to year, but that does not seem to be the case now that he is in the SEC. Looking at his conference trend, 2-6, 3-5, 5-3, 4-4, given the loss of offensive and defensive production after 2016, the smart money is that Butch is on the down side of a parabolic curve, and that 2015 was his peak. I'll conceded, that if he is coaching here in the 2018 season, there's a chance that he might start the climb again, but as you pointed out, the future is unpredictable.

If CBJ had shown himself even remotely capable of the aspirations put forth in DoubleD's post, there'd be no need for people to start thread's defending his coaching ability and performance these last four seasons.

Who is the one saying believing something makes it true? Who is it you think is unaware of that fact? You somehow seem to be making the case that everyone's beliefs are false except yours, because you seem to perceive yours are based more in reality than everyone else's.

I'm not suggesting inexperience is a positive. I just don't think this team has as many holes as some suggest.

As for our SEC record the past four years. Butch has improved in the SEC more than not, just as I said. The trend, although not significant enough to please many of us, is upward. Not downward.

Butch has also shown he's capable of beating the top coaches in the east. He just has to prevent the slip-ups against lesser opponents. That's not a talent issue.

 

[BeardedVol]

1. Two cancers in the locker room are gone.

2. Injuries in 2016, worst ever.

3. No DT left at end of season.

4. Redshirted Linemen in 2016 that can play in 2017.

5. Returning OL is more experienced and deeper (lost 1).

6. Coaching changes were made OC, DB, S&C.

7. Two highly rated QBs will compete for starter.

Now you can argue that some of these things may turn out better or worse in 2017, but those are facts about the what we faced in 2016 or what will be different in 2017.

My apologies, I thought you were referring to DoubleD's post.

As far as those go though

1. That's debatable as to how much impact either of those players had on the team. Considering the struggles that we still had after Hurd was gone, the impact seams minimal at best.

2. The injuries were bad, no arguing there, but I don't think they impact the two loses to USCe and Vandy. As much as the defense were cardboard cutouts of players, the offensive production was pretty bad in both of those games as well.

3. Yep, year 4 and we are still missing SEC-level depth

5. Returning Oline will be more experienced, but unfortunately an Oline is more than just the talent and experience of the individual linemen, and Mahoney-coached lines here at UT, have been pretty bad. I think it's debatable as to whether or not he's capable of fielding a functioning line at this point.

6. OC is now a first year, first time OC, while he may turn out to be good, I wouldn't say that it's an indicator that we will be. Warren as DB coach, they can only get better because even under Martinez they couldn't get worse. Rock at S&C is good, I hope that he can make an impact in the six months he is going to have with them.

7. Two highly rated QB's one with zero college playing time, and one with very little college playing time. I wouldn't consider trying to break either of them in a positive indicator for the 2017 season.

I think overall, compared to team 120, team 121 is minus a lot of proven talent and experience.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

And Alabama is on the decline. Lol.

 

[BeardedVol]

Who is the one saying believing something makes it true? You somehow seem to be making the case that everyone's beliefs are false except yours, because you seem to perceive yours are based more in reality than everyone else's.

Not everyone's but what DoubleD was postulating, is purely based on feeling, and he even said as much. Yes, I do think that when it comes to football, basing your belief/opinion, on the evidence you have on hand (past seasons, recruiting, coaching hires) is based in reality, then basing your opinion on vague "feelings". Hence, why I stated that believing something to be true, didn't make it true.

I'm not suggesting inexperience is a positive. I just don't think this team has as many holes as some suggest.

History would disagree with you. When a team loses as many starters as we did at the end of the season, the outlook for the next season is not very good. I would argue that it's worse for us because at some positions, we are replacing highly skilled players with significantly less-skilled players.

As for our SEC record the past four years. Butch has improved in the SEC more than not, just as I said. The trend, although not significant enough to please many of us, is upward. Not downward.

The fact is that butch managed to win 5 SEC games in 2015, and only managed 4 in 2016. I guess you can argue that one down year doesn't make a trend, but the sampling is only 4 seasons, so you kind of have to take it at face value.

Butch has also shown he's capable of beating the top coaches in the east. He just has to prevent the slip-ups against lesser opponents. That's not a talent issue.

He's also shown that he can get out-coached by Derek Mason and Will Muschamp (again). Losing to those two teams just makes it significantly less probable that in 2017, he's going to be able to take a less-talented, less-experienced team, and win more SEC games.

 

[volsportsfan]

Who is the one saying believing something makes it true? Who is it you think is unaware of that fact? You somehow seem to be making the case that everyone's beliefs are false except yours, because you seem to perceive yours are based more in reality than everyone else's.

I'm not suggesting inexperience is a positive. I just don't think this team has as many holes as some suggest.

As for our SEC record the past four years. Butch has improved in the SEC more than not, just as I said. The trend, although not significant enough to please many of us, is upward. Not downward.

Butch has also shown he's capable of beating the top coaches in the east. He just has to prevent the slip-ups against lesser opponents. That's not a talent issue.

Freak MY MAN! Lovin everything you are sayin! There may come a time to throw Butch overboard, but it ain't right now. People, calm down and let the man steer his ship. He was hired to steer the ship, he is gonna steer it as he sees fit ( I would do the same ), and he has done a decent job so far. Not great, but definitely not terrible. I personally think that after this season, barring any major injury(s) or loss of a significant player ( such as the QB ), we are all gonna have a better idea of wether butch is the man or not.