I Hope CJP doesnt fall to the same mistakes that CPF made before he was let go !!

#1
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TAD

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#1
I Hope CJP doesnt fall to the same mistakes that CPF made before he was let go !! I agree that CPF should have been given opportunity to make another change from the bad hire he made on Dave Clawson - CPF was too loyal when it came to his staff IMO ... and im afraid this couild come back to haunt CJP .... his hire of Will Friend ( his lifelong buddy ) and his whole Offensive staff is in question - just the mistakes are tremendous - starts with OL ... granted they are short some guys but no excuse for penalties - now if they cant block and are weak and cant move thats all got to be corrected in recruiting and workouts but dicipline is coaching and Will Friend has not got it done ... will CJP be able to make a tough call when time comes ... ??? The guy was at Colorado St .. really .... along with that he hires a TE Coach ..never been a on field coach I dont think ( good recruiter - so I can kive with that - TE is one position) - RB - Coach Chris Wienke ( he has done OK ) - WR Coach - I really like ..I think they have improved ... and give effort ... now the OC - Helton - while I think the QB position has improved its hard to judge ..I think he can call a good game if he has all the pieces helping him - how cohesive is this Offensive staff in working together .. but hard to get anything done with our OL - feel sorry for Guarantano - kid is tough as nails - nobody on OL has pancaked a DL in forever ... its just not got a attitude of dominance ....
 
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#5
#5
TAD said:
I Hope CJP doesnt fall to the same mistakes that CPF made before he was let go !! I agree that CPF should have been given opportunity to make another change from the bad hire he made on Dave Clawson - CPF was too loyal when it came to his staff IMO ... and im afraid this couild come back to haunt CJP .... his hire of Will Friend ( his lifelong buddy ) and his whole Offensive staff is in question - just the mistakes are tremendous - starts with OL ... granted they are short some guys but no excuse for penalties - now if they cant block and are weak and cant move thats all got to be corrected in recruiting and workouts but dicipline is coaching and Will Friend has not got it done ... will CJP be able to make a tough call when time comes ... ??? The guy was at Colorado St .. really .... along with that he hires a TE Coach ..never been a on field coach I dont think ( good recruiter - so I can kive with that - TE is one position) - RB - Coach Chris Wienke ( he has done OK ) - WR Coach - I really like ..I think they have improved ... and give effort ... now the OC - Helton - while I think the QB position has improved its hard to judge ..I think he can call a good game if he has all the pieces helping him - how cohesive is this Offensive staff in working together .. but hard to get anything done with our OL - feel sorry for Guarantano - kid is tough as nails - nobody on OL has pancaked a DL in forever ... its just not got a attitude of dominance ....
Click to expand...
I really didn't want to hear it when he said it... but in an interview before the season Fulmer stated it would take more than one off-season and some recruiting to get the OL up to the size and power needed to compete in the SEC. That was before they lost Kennedy and Smith.

The QB position isn't impossible to judge. JG doesn't make good reads which impacts the running game, pass protection, and the pressure he's gotten. On several occasions he has failed to account for blitzes that the OL had no one to block. His inconsistent ability to make pre-snap reads often causes him to have to "think" about it after the snap... which makes him late getting the ball out. He has the arm to make up part of the difference sometimes... but that is a major factor in the hits he's taking. One way you can see this is to go back and look at plays where he's had plenty of time. He has plenty of arm but is often causing receivers to come back for the ball. He's a half count behind in his head.

Most of these problems are to one extent or another the product of very poor coaching, schemes, and development by Jones for 1 to 4 years. Jones thought of himself as the next coming of Urban Meyer who brought the spread into the SEC and won. But even Meyer's spread success was short lived. SEC D's are too fast and powerful. They restored the balance quickly. Jones thought he could go "speed" and use his "techniques" on the OL to overcome SEC D's. It never worked and the OL's looked awful except when being bailed out by Dobbs.
 
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#6
#6
TAD, since you're so new to VN I honestly don't know if you're just a Troll or you really believe the things you posted or if you're very young and haven't thought things through very well my friend.

The 1st thing I want you to do is to THINK some things through buddy...

When Pruitt decided who he wanted and called them they all quit their jobs and ran to K town as fast as they could get here and 1 of the 1st was Coach Helton, our OC and his HC was his brother, HC of USC and since Helton left USC that program hasn't done nearly as well.

Helton learned from his dad, big brother and some really good O coaches through the years and when he was the OC at WKU they really LIT UP the scoreboard so I believe that wen we have thhe right player roster that our Vols will start to light up the scoreboard too.

Helton also coaches our QB's and it's very obvious that JG has gotten much better since last season.

Will Friend has a reputation of being a very good O line coach and a pretty good OC too so I can't put all our O line problems off on him for several reasons.

The main reason is our Losers culture, mindset and mental attitudes of our players.

Under our last coaches our players were NOT coached up correctly or pushed HARD to improve themselves or pushed in our S&C to get bigger, faster or stronger so the plain unvarnished fact is that our Team just isn't very good...YET!

I doubt that teams like Bama, UGa or LSU would take 2 to 4 of our players for their teams especially if you took Trey Smith out of that equation because we simply don't have many SEC type players on our current roster and only several years of good recruiting will change that.

When you add in Coach Osovet then Pruitt actually has 3 good OC's on his staff and I have little doubt that those 3 guys can get everything done very well after we have the right players.

Also remember that to become a good D coach or a DC you must also know what the O is doing so our D coaches also know the O side of the ball pretty well.

I believe we have good coaches/recruiters so all we need now is 3 or 4 really good recruiting classes and to get the mental attitudes changed from negative to positive, winners attitudes and we'll be a very tough Team to beat.

I hate trying to be patient too but that's all we can really do except to support our coaches and players and scream like hell at Neyland.

VFL...GBO!!!
 
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#7
#7
TAD said:
I Hope CJP doesnt fall to the same mistakes that CPF made before he was let go !! I agree that CPF should have been given opportunity to make another change from the bad hire he made on Dave Clawson - CPF was too loyal when it came to his staff IMO ... and im afraid this couild come back to haunt CJP .... his hire of Will Friend ( his lifelong buddy ) and his whole Offensive staff is in question - just the mistakes are tremendous - starts with OL ... granted they are short some guys but no excuse for penalties - now if they cant block and are weak and cant move thats all got to be corrected in recruiting and workouts but dicipline is coaching and Will Friend has not got it done ... will CJP be able to make a tough call when time comes ... ??? The guy was at Colorado St .. really .... along with that he hires a TE Coach ..never been a on field coach I dont think ( good recruiter - so I can kive with that - TE is one position) - RB - Coach Chris Wienke ( he has done OK ) - WR Coach - I really like ..I think they have improved ... and give effort ... now the OC - Helton - while I think the QB position has improved its hard to judge ..I think he can call a good game if he has all the pieces helping him - how cohesive is this Offensive staff in working together .. but hard to get anything done with our OL - feel sorry for Guarantano - kid is tough as nails - nobody on OL has pancaked a DL in forever ... its just not got a attitude of dominance ....
Click to expand...
1541865514655.jpeg
 
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#9
#9
OrangeByBirth said:
It is hard to coach a team filled with players that are not SEC caliber to become SEC contenders.
Click to expand...

This is what Pruitt seems to be saying (without actually saying it). But our guys were recruited by other SEC programs who obviously thought they WERE SEC-caliber. So what happened to them? Hell, Drew Richmond was a 5-star who everybody in the country wanted. And now he can't get out of his own way? I know, people will blame it all on Butch. Go ahead. That's the easy answer. That's the explanation that helps you get to sleep when your head hits the pillow. It won't be as comforting after next season, when Pruitt says we still don't have enough good players yet.
 
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#10
#10
The last three idiots we had for AD didn't know what a good football coach was. At least CPF knows. I'll defer to him and CJP to make this team competitive and bring the Vols back to prominence. BEATUK
 
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#12
#12
OrangeByBirth said:
It is hard to coach a team filled with players that are not SEC caliber to become SEC contenders.
Click to expand...
But if they were just coached better....or tried harder......blah blah....some of our fan base doesn’t understand chicken salad and chicken shite.
 
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#13
#13
sjt18 said:
I really didn't want to hear it when he said it... but in an interview before the season Fulmer stated it would take more than one off-season and some recruiting to get the OL up to the size and power needed to compete in the SEC. That was before they lost Kennedy and Smith.

The QB position isn't impossible to judge. JG doesn't make good reads which impacts the running game, pass protection, and the pressure he's gotten. On several occasions he has failed to account for blitzes that the OL had no one to block. His inconsistent ability to make pre-snap reads often causes him to have to "think" about it after the snap... which makes him late getting the ball out. He has the arm to make up part of the difference sometimes... but that is a major factor in the hits he's taking. One way you can see this is to go back and look at plays where he's had plenty of time. He has plenty of arm but is often causing receivers to come back for the ball. He's a half count behind in his head.

Most of these problems are to one extent or another the product of very poor coaching, schemes, and development by Jones for 1 to 4 years. Jones thought of himself as the next coming of Urban Meyer who brought the spread into the SEC and won. But even Meyer's spread success was short lived. SEC D's are too fast and powerful. They restored the balance quickly. Jones thought he could go "speed" and use his "techniques" on the OL to overcome SEC D's. It never worked and the OL's looked awful except when being bailed out by Dobbs.
Click to expand...
Agree mostly with this. But we leave too many people unblocked in our offensive schemes this year also. We are not great at blocking but other teams are bringing more than we have in many instances and JG’s inability to read defenses does not compensate. KC picked up the defense when he came in against Bama and threw 2 TD’s.

On defense we seem to leave receivers completely uncovered and too slow to adjust to routes. Sometimes I wonder just what Pruitt is trying to do? Just does not look like a sound strategy.
 
#14
#14
Most of our o-line is undersized and the player's with the right measurables move their feet like a sloth on its death bed. Recruiting and development are the only answers.
 
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#15
#15
Butch was like one of those high school teachers that, for some reason, never assigns homework for the weekend. Great idea that makes kids like you. But, it doesn't help them at the next level. I think CJP assigns weekend homework. Better be ready on Monday, er...Saturday!
Go Vols!
 
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#16
#16
We got to give him at least until the end of next season before we judge too harshly.

Not that you were OP, and critism is fair along the way. I just don’t want too much actual pressure on the man until we see what he’s got a little more into his tenure.

I’m just some idiot online though. lol
 
#18
#18
Titan&Volfan4life said:
TAD, since you're so new to VN I honestly don't know if you're just a Troll or you really believe the things you posted or if you're very young and haven't thought things through very well my friend.

The 1st thing I want you to do is to THINK some things through buddy...

When Pruitt decided who he wanted and called them they all quit their jobs and ran to K town as fast as they could get here and 1 of the 1st was Coach Helton, our OC and his HC was his brother, HC of USC and since Helton left USC that program hasn't done nearly as well.

Helton learned from his dad, big brother and some really good O coaches through the years and when he was the OC at WKU they really LIT UP the scoreboard so I believe that wen we have thhe right player roster that our Vols will start to light up the scoreboard too.

Helton also coaches our QB's and it's very obvious that JG has gotten much better since last season.

Will Friend has a reputation of being a very good O line coach and a pretty good OC too so I can't put all our O line problems off on him for several reasons.

The main reason is our Losers culture, mindset and mental attitudes of our players.

Under our last coaches our players were NOT coached up correctly or pushed HARD to improve themselves or pushed in our S&C to get bigger, faster or stronger so the plain unvarnished fact is that our Team just isn't very good...YET!

I doubt that teams like Bama, UGa or LSU would take 2 to 4 of our players for their teams especially if you took Trey Smith out of that equation because we simply don't have many SEC type players on our current roster and only several years of good recruiting will change that.

When you add in Coach Osovet then Pruitt actually has 3 good OC's on his staff and I have little doubt that those 3 guys can get everything done very well after we have the right players.

Also remember that to become a good D coach or a DC you must also know what the O is doing so our D coaches also know the O side of the ball pretty well.

I believe we have good coaches/recruiters so all we need now is 3 or 4 really good recruiting classes and to get the mental attitudes changed from negative to positive, winners attitudes and we'll be a very tough Team to beat.

I hate trying to be patient too but that's all we can really do except to support our coaches and players and scream like hell at Neyland.

VFL...GBO!!!
Click to expand...
Yea I know Titan ... your still talking a 5 star , 2 - 4 stars and 2 3 - stars on OL even without Smith and Kennedy .... heard good things about Carvin and how Kolbert was making progress ... I think the OL can be better at knowing who they block and not jumping offsides - THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ABILITY OR WHETHER THEY ARE SEC CALIBER OR NOT ..... and as far Coaches quiting jobs and running to Tennessee ( hey woudnt you run to Tennessee from Colorado St ?????? ) as fast as you could .. SEC more money ... no brainer .. I realize we are short on talent and BJ satff didnt devolpe on fiels or weight room .. NO reason that Tatum and Neihaus still should be weighing as lighta s they are ... OL and DL are the keys .. and we have 2 or 3 committed on OL and they will be freshman next year and the word will be well we are young so its 2020 before we will look to try to be competitive with a Young QB ... .. Im not yet impressed with the DL recruiting and if we cant stop run then same ole same ole
 
#20
#20
Both Vol LOS (Defense & Offense) lines had so many schemes, different schemes and coaches thrown at them in the last 10 years it is pathetic and confusing.

Different Coaching techniques and Schemes because the Offense is changed.... Plus Defensive Line. 3-4 4-3 back and forth Recruiting also not as great as described.

The LOS has been un recruited, and untrained and over/under Coach... We had several HCs that thought they new more than the position coach. The only time the O Line looked like it was going to grow was when Debord was OC.

That theory may be thwarted by the fact that we had Dobbs in the backfield.
 
#21
#21
TAD said:
I Hope CJP doesnt fall to the same mistakes that CPF made before he was let go !! I agree that CPF should have been given opportunity to make another change from the bad hire he made on Dave Clawson - CPF was too loyal when it came to his staff IMO ... and im afraid this couild come back to haunt CJP .... his hire of Will Friend ( his lifelong buddy ) and his whole Offensive staff is in question - just the mistakes are tremendous - starts with OL ... granted they are short some guys but no excuse for penalties - now if they cant block and are weak and cant move thats all got to be corrected in recruiting and workouts but dicipline is coaching and Will Friend has not got it done ... will CJP be able to make a tough call when time comes ... ??? The guy was at Colorado St .. really .... along with that he hires a TE Coach ..never been a on field coach I dont think ( good recruiter - so I can kive with that - TE is one position) - RB - Coach Chris Wienke ( he has done OK ) - WR Coach - I really like ..I think they have improved ... and give effort ... now the OC - Helton - while I think the QB position has improved its hard to judge ..I think he can call a good game if he has all the pieces helping him - how cohesive is this Offensive staff in working together .. but hard to get anything done with our OL - feel sorry for Guarantano - kid is tough as nails - nobody on OL has pancaked a DL in forever ... its just not got a attitude of dominance ....
Click to expand...
Well lets be glad Phil Fulmer is Tennessee AD and not you. Pruitt took over a team that went 0-8 last year in the SEC. You name me one coach that could take this team with this O-line and win 7 or 8 games. Pruitt will be just fine. You will see. He is going to bring SEC type players to Tennessee.
 
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#22
#22
Year 3 will be the tell all of this staff untill then let them do their job and get players in . Go Vols
 
#23
#23
TAD said:
I Hope CJP doesnt fall to the same mistakes that CPF made before he was let go !! I agree that CPF should have been given opportunity to make another change from the bad hire he made on Dave Clawson - CPF was too loyal when it came to his staff IMO ... and im afraid this couild come back to haunt CJP .... his hire of Will Friend ( his lifelong buddy ) and his whole Offensive staff is in question - just the mistakes are tremendous - starts with OL ... granted they are short some guys but no excuse for penalties - now if they cant block and are weak and cant move thats all got to be corrected in recruiting and workouts but dicipline is coaching and Will Friend has not got it done ... will CJP be able to make a tough call when time comes ... ??? The guy was at Colorado St .. really .... along with that he hires a TE Coach ..never been a on field coach I dont think ( good recruiter - so I can kive with that - TE is one position) - RB - Coach Chris Wienke ( he has done OK ) - WR Coach - I really like ..I think they have improved ... and give effort ... now the OC - Helton - while I think the QB position has improved its hard to judge ..I think he can call a good game if he has all the pieces helping him - how cohesive is this Offensive staff in working together .. but hard to get anything done with our OL - feel sorry for Guarantano - kid is tough as nails - nobody on OL has pancaked a DL in forever ... its just not got a attitude of dominance ....
Click to expand...



It all comes down to talent and talent is where we suffer at so many positions, obviously the Oline is the place where it is so obvious to even non football fans.
If this team was afforded a decent Oline it would look magnitudes different and be much more competitive with SEC teams
 
#24
#24
Apples to Oranges.

Another OMG thread.

He was forced to hire Clawson because of boosters disgruntlement with CDC. I heard one conversation in a the sky box with Hamilton and witnessed another in person. Gone.

CDC more than likely would have fixed the situation if given the time but the fans and boosters wanted the change and it happened.

In doing so, it lead to the choking of the chicken, the hiring, departures, of coaches and staff which led us where we are today.

Have another drink and think about it.....You may need a case.
 
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