I believe Jeremy Banks is coming back..

CrybabyVol

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So a woman captured by the Taliban isn't going to be exposed to worse? A woman subject to the hate of locals who gets blown up by an IED isn't exposed to worse? Having a teenager yell crude things at her is worse than the stress of a combat convoy?

Thank you for your service. And yes, I'm aware of the "coddling"... I was a victim of reverse discrimination years ago that gave favored assignments in the Army to women and minorities. There was one guy whose scores were lower than me who just looked like a minority in his black and white photo... he was Caucasian.

But that wasn't the point. There are lines of work that women need to have thick skin to be in because at some point being "nice" and protecting their "feelings"... isn't going to limit what they experience.
You are doing the typical "argue the exception as the rule." What woman can you point to that have been captured by the Taliban? (We are now needing to use the Taliban to compare what Banks said?) What woman/en are routinely subject to hate of locals, or blown up by IEDs? In police work, women are exposed to circumstances like Banks and probably exposed routinely. Although, I will say that I got far, far less files/videos/reports across my desk for suspects being vitriolic to women compared to men. What is the point anyway? Does being subject to such crud make the crud acceptable? There are people in law enforcement who would tell you it's "part of the job." I've had those guys in my office. I've had them being so uncaring and desensitized that they almost had no personality. The people that are tired. The people that don't care. Get to 20 years and a pension and then hopefully get private-sector work. This is all just off the rails.
 
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82_VOL_83

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Part 1: No, that is very clearly racist - at least if we consider "black men" and "white men" as referring to race (which I do not really but it is the common vernacular).

RACISM: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Pretty clear that he is telling the woman that the black race is superior in his statement, in their ability to "handle" her. The easiest way to tell is to flip everything, Banks being white, the woman being black, etc. Everyone would be crying "racism". So yes, it was a racist statement and in many ways very messed up, especially when added to the rest of his comments about cops in general + his behavior at the night club.

It was also funny. It was also a drunk young man who was mouthing off while trying to appear macho to a female.

The above facts should not really be in dispute.

Part 2: The difference of opinion it seems is "what to do about it?". Some are of the view that the offenses were so egregious that they warrant his irredeemable dismissal from the program and the school should kick him back into the gutter from which he came.

My view, however, is that while yes, he comes from the gutter where such thinking and behavior as he expressed is common and widespread - but rather than sweep him back into that gutter, help him to climb out of it. The most critical part of that being for him to first realize that he (and his mindset) was in one. It is a fact that not everyone wants to change and life does not give us limitless opportunities to do so.

In this case, however, I sincerely believe that both Banks and the world at large are better served by keeping him in the program (if he does what is required of him) so that he can be around the positive influences and learn new habits and new thinking. Pruitt seems to have a clear pattern of both fighting for kids and being VERY loyal to them and at the same time, kick their asses and (actually) get in their face when needed. I think this kind of tough love, that demands Banks to "come up higher" but also doesnt throw him away, is the better answer. Maybe that's why many recruits see this staff like a family.
For the first part of your post:
#Digforsomethingtobeinsultedby
#blackmanmadefunofmygenitalia

Dear LORD! I give. I don't think what he said is racist, rather it was damn funny given his circumstance. Be insulted if you want. The above indisputable facts are conjecture on your part since much of what is called racist now is subjective and has no basis in hard fact.

For the second part I agree.
 

82_VOL_83

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Defending this is just stupid. You can say give the kid a second third or however many chances this is. I don't know whats happened behind the scenes, but I wouldn't step in front of this incident and say that I think this individual has anything remotely like good character. What he said was absolutely offensive. Stand and defend him all you want. It bothers me that the state is spending money on someone that acts like this when there are quality kids that don't have that opportunity.
No one said it wasn't offensive nor should ever be said to a female.
#comprehensionforthewin

Your last statement is also looking for something to be upset by. Exactly how much does the "state" spend on an athletic scholarship?

#misplacedoutrage
 

sjt18

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You are doing the typical "argue the exception as the rule."
Not really.

What woman can you point to that have been captured by the Taliban? (We are now needing to use the Taliban to compare what Banks said?) What woman/en are routinely subject to hate of locals, or blown up by IEDs?
Now you are trying to carry the comparison too far. Women in those theaters face risks and those risks are far worse than Banks' words. Not military but you asked about like professions. Remember the US reporter who was gang raped in Egypt during an Arab spring protest?

What is the point anyway?
My point is that a loud mouthed kid saying things like that is wrong. However the female officer took that risk when she chose that profession. She exposed herself to that risk and much more. Attempts to turn it into a heinous crime because he said something "sexist" are illegitimate.

Does being subject to such crud make the crud acceptable?
Nowhere did I suggest it was. Hopefully part of his path back will deal with not just the words but the attitude and character flaws behind the words.

There are people in law enforcement who would tell you it's "part of the job." I've had those guys in my office. I've had them being so uncaring and desensitized that they almost had no personality. The people that are tired. The people that don't care. Get to 20 years and a pension and then hopefully get private-sector work. This is all just off the rails.
No one is excusing him. Just some don't think throwing him off the team and possibly reinforcing those attitudes rather than correcting them is the right answer. Do I want the same guy back on the team? No. If he wouldn't behave completely different in a similar situation now then they shouldn't allow him back.

But there is nothing wrong with showing some grace and trying to redeem someone. It doesn't undermine discipline but in fact can enhance it.
 

pimo1

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You are either completely out of touch with the military, are making assumptions, or basing your experiences on pre-80s military experiences. Degradation is not tolerated or applied outside of limited and sanctioned training purposes. If you spoke to a subordinate like Banks spoke to Law Enforcement in this video, your ass would be tanned quicker than a yankee on the beach in Florida. If you spoke to a superior like he did, your career would be over.
As I clearly stated I was in the Navy in the mid-late 90's and still spend quite a good amount of time around Military bases in the Norfolk and Virginia beach areas. Stating that the military is some haven for women's rights is insane. That's like trying to convince someone that hazing and horseplay has no place in an NFL locker room because they are professionals. As I said maybe as an officer you're in some kind of bubble where such things don't happen in front of you but they happen daily and often. Maybe you just decide not to see. There is policy and there is reality.
 
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As I clearly stated I was in the Navy in the mid-late 90's and still spend quite a good amount of time around Military bases in the Norfolk and Virginia beach areas. Stating that the military is some haven for women's rights is insane. That's like trying to convince someone that hazing and horseplay has no place in an NFL locker room because they are professionals. As I said maybe as an officer you're in some kind of bubble where such things don't happen in front of you but they happen daily and often. Maybe you just decide not to see. There is policy and there is reality.
He can't handle the truth!
 

CrybabyVol

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As I clearly stated I was in the Navy in the mid-late 90's and still spend quite a good amount of time around Military bases in the Norfolk and Virginia beach areas. Stating that the military is some haven for women's rights is insane. That's like trying to convince someone that hazing and horseplay has no place in an NFL locker room because they are professionals. As I said maybe as an officer you're in some kind of bubble where such things don't happen in front of you but they happen daily and often. Maybe you just decide not to see. There is policy and there is reality.
Well so far nobody is agreeing with your posture. I guess my "bubble" is more of the norm. Thanks for your service. If you retired and did your 20 in '97 (or 30) then the military was dramatically different from your end date to your begin date. It's even more dramatically different now. I am an officer. As an officer, I'm responsible for making sure that people (male or female) in my zone are taken care of. The gripes don't up as was said in a famous movie. Your spending time around bases 23 years after you retired, gives you absolutely no understanding of what soldiers go through in modern times.

But please, please, please do all of us currently in the military a favor. Don't do your base shopping/haircut/tailoring, etc. at lunch or at 4:30-5. I can't stand when you old-timers come in at lunch and at five and clog up the lanes. Do your shopping at like 10 or like 2. Deal?
 
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therealitytheory

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He said some despicable things and paid a heavy price imo. Kicked off the team for a season isn't the same as running stadium steps.

If he's contrite and if he satisfied what the team laid down as necessary for his return...c'mon back. Just understand the microscope you're under...and act accordingly.
 
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CrybabyVol

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Not really.

Now you are trying to carry the comparison too far. Women in those theaters face risks and those risks are far worse than Banks' words. Not military but you asked about like professions. Remember the US reporter who was gang raped in Egypt during an Arab spring protest?

My point is that a loud mouthed kid saying things like that is wrong. However the female officer took that risk when she chose that profession. She exposed herself to that risk and much more. Attempts to turn it into a heinous crime because he said something "sexist" are illegitimate.

Nowhere did I suggest it was. Hopefully part of his path back will deal with not just the words but the attitude and character flaws behind the words.


No one is excusing him. Just some don't think throwing him off the team and possibly reinforcing those attitudes rather than correcting them is the right answer. Do I want the same guy back on the team? No. If he wouldn't behave completely different in a similar situation now then they shouldn't allow him back.

But there is nothing wrong with showing some grace and trying to redeem someone. It doesn't undermine discipline but in fact can enhance it.
You're absolutely just making a scene. You claim you aren't making an exception a rule, but you cite one example. Women (or men) don't sign up to be degraded and they don't face that on a regular basis. Any officer takes the risk, you claim you're not being accepting of the behavior but then you say "took the risk."

As to throwing him off the team, it's already been done. Then you say something truly mystifying. You don't think throwing him off the team and possibly reinforcing those attitudes ... So we should keep him on the team to not reinforce 18 years of culture? Has anybody asked him about this? As I said before, I don't give a darn if he shows up to a children's hospital. Let's see him start a police benevolence association where people shoot at cops in Memphis. You say no one is excusing him, but there are people on this board who are excusing him. There are people who say "haven't you gotten drunk and mouthed off before." So that's wrong. As to redemption, it's a great thing, but he can find redemption elsewhere. It's not up to Tennessee to be the benefactor of his moral development.
 
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Sara Clark

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I remember thinking, in NO way would I let Juan Jennings back on the team. Be mindful, the Lord didn't bless me with patience, I could never be a teacher.

I couldn't have been more wrong. With not only help, and guidance from Pruitt, in addition to grace, he turned his life around, and became a vol I would dare say, we all can be proud of.

I'm trusting Pruitt with this one, as we probably all should. He'll get it right, whatever that might be.....
 
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butchna

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You're absolutely just making a scene. You claim you aren't making an exception a rule, but you cite one example. Women (or men) don't sign up to be degraded and they don't face that on a regular basis. Any officer takes the risk, you claim you're not being accepting of the behavior but then you say "took the risk."

As to throwing him off the team, it's already been done. Then you say something truly mystifying. You don't think throwing him off the team and possibly reinforcing those attitudes ... So we should keep him on the team to not reinforce 18 years of culture? Has anybody asked him about this? As I said before, I don't give a darn if he shows up to a children's hospital. Let's see him start a police benevolence association where people shoot at cops in Memphis. You say no one is excusing him, but there are people on this board who are excusing him. There are people who say "haven't you gotten drunk and mouthed off before." So that's wrong. As to redemption, it's a great thing, but he can find redemption elsewhere. It's not up to Tennessee to be the benefactor of his moral development.
We’re as capable of rehabbing him as any other program...why shirk because we have message board posters who want him dead?
 

82_VOL_83

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I remember thinking, in NO way would I let Juan Jennings back on the team. Be mindful, the Lord didn't bless me with patience, I could never be a teacher.

I couldn't have been more wrong. With not only help, and guidance from Pruitt, in addition to grace, he turned his life around, and became a vol I would dare say, we all can be proud of.

I'm trusting Pruitt with this one, as we probably all should. He'll get it right, whatever right is.
/thread for me






but I will continue to point out self righteousness here.
 

82_VOL_83

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We’re as capable of rehabbing him as any other program...why shirk because we have message board posters who want him dead?
I say more so because our program knows all the sordid details. If he goes somewhere else he gets a "clean slate" with no early year punishment. Talk about not learning anything.
 

Gandalf

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For the first part of your post:
#Digforsomethingtobeinsultedby
#blackmanmadefunofmygenitalia

Dear LORD! I give. I don't think what he said is racist, rather it was damn funny given his circumstance. Be insulted if you want. The above indisputable facts are conjecture on your part since much of what is called racist now is subjective and has no basis in hard fact.

For the second part I agree.
A mistake is in thinking that something cannot be both racist and damn funny. A second mistake is thinking I am offended. The greatest mistake, however, has been by society at large, who has acted as if racist statements are somehow inherently more evil and harmful than actual statements of hatred toward others. Racism has become only something white people say towards a "minority", while being incapable of recognizing that all sides can harbor such thoughts. Worse, the perpetually aggrieved, ever seeking new ways to declare their victim status, have successfully equated the feeling of racial superiority with actual hatred and violence. While the latter certainly can stem from the former, it is NOT the same thing.

EVERYONE tends to prefer their "tribe" and generally sees it as superior in some ways to all others. My wife sees the Irish as salt of the earth and the English as dirty SOBs. My country, my wife, my children, my city perhaps I believe to be superior to others. Certainly we can agree that those with orange blood (but only a certain tint) are far superior to all other football teams and fans. Why then do we (people in general) see this especially different because of where one's origins are from? It is only when this manifests as hatred, when it transforms itself into violent or unkind actions does it become abhorrent.

So you see, I can easily see myself quite superior to the inbred, trailer trash, two teeth ignoramuses known as Alabama fans, yet that prejudice not cause me to act toward them with vile intent. Though sadly, in this case, I must indeed confess, I do rather hate them.
 

82_VOL_83

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A mistake is in thinking that something cannot be both racist and damn funny. A second mistake is thinking I am offended. The greatest mistake, however, has been by society at large, who has acted as if racist statements are somehow inherently more evil and harmful than actual statements of hatred toward others. Racism has become only something white people say towards a "minority", while being incapable of recognizing that all sides can harbor such thoughts. Worse, the perpetually aggrieved, ever seeking new ways to declare their victim status, have successfully equated the feeling of racial superiority with actual hatred and violence. While the latter certainly can stem from the former, it is NOT the same thing.

EVERYONE tends to prefer their "tribe" and generally sees it as superior in some ways to all others. My wife sees the Irish as salt of the earth and the English as dirty SOBs. My country, my wife, my children, my city perhaps I believe to be superior to others. Certainly we can agree that those with orange blood (but only a certain tint) are far superior to all other football teams and fans. Why then do we (people in general) see this especially different because of where one's origins are from? It is only when this manifests as hatred, when it transforms itself into violent or unkind actions does it become abhorrent.

So you see, I can easily see myself quite superior to the inbred, trailer trash, two teeth ignoramuses known as Alabama fans, yet that prejudice not cause me to act toward them with vile intent. Though sadly, in this case, I must indeed confess, I do rather hate them.
It can't be racist if it's funny. If you find something racist AND funny the you quite probably are on the "superior" end. Racism should be defined by actions and not by words. This is where we have fallen off the boat. Words don't do harm unless the one spoken too allows them to. I see several posters on this thread (Not pointing you out at all) that need to grow a thicker skin and get over it. What he said was about the time honored black man vs. white man genitalia argument. It wasn't racist it was FUNNY. If you think that statement was racist at all you need to check your "ego".
 

chrismc1000

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If a woman wants to be a police officer, soldier, or like professional... they better be prepared for much worse than what Banks said in anger.
This is true.

Need to make a point here. I'm an officer in the military. I can guarantee you that woman in our armed forces across each branch are not exposed to anything like Banks was dishing. Police, yeah. Not sure what you mean by "like professional." Just wanted to address this, because if anything, women in the armed forces tend to be coddled a bit too much.
This is true

LMFAO are you serious? What military are you in? Compared to what is normal everyday water cooler talk in the military and Law enforcement what banks said is the tamest of tame. What kind of bubble do you people live in? I am former Military. Have quite a few friends still deployed and spend a good amount of time on and around base. Pop that bubble bro. Hyperbole is not your friend.
This is true

By former military, do you mean 50 years ago? I've seen folks run up the flag pole for way less than this. This type of incident is not tolerated and wasn't during my 20 years. Does that mean that some folks don't act like idiots? No! Those actions are punished severely when caught though. Video like this would be plenty to hammer a kid.
This is true

I was in the USAF as SF. Women got away with murder and I I cussed out and made a girl cry bc she deserved it. Officers don't really see everything as much as they like to think they see. I've never been the one to back down either. I've had plenty of times where I put officers and ncos in their place as an E3 and E4 lol
 
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superdave1984

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It can't be racist if it's funny. If you find something racist AND funny the you quite probably are on the "superior" end. Racism should be defined by actions and not by words. This is where we have fallen off the boat. Words don't do harm unless the one spoken too allows them to. I see several posters on this thread (Not pointing you out at all) that need to grow a thicker skin and get over it. What he said was about the time honored black man vs. white man genitalia argument. It wasn't racist it was FUNNY. If you think that statement was racist at all you need to check your "ego".
Chris Rock agrees.
 

JOEY'S ALL VOL !!!

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Don't see anyone on here changing anyone else's mind about this topic despite all the lame ass arguing about it.

I personally don't care one way or the other, if Pruitt and staff bring him back then so be it. I think he would personally be better off and benefit from a new start somewhere else with a change of scenery, but that's just my opinion. Everyone makes mistakes and should get the chance to atone for them. If he comes back we'll find out soon enough if he has changed his attitude or not, hopefully he's sincere about becoming a better person. I will say this though, it's gonna take a lot more than slipping on a suit and carrying a bible in your hands while having someone take pictures of you. Talking and counseling to youth and troubled kids is a good thing, but the whole Joel Osteen look about it was just too over the top for me. I have personally never seen anyone that was sincere about helping the troubled or less fortunate advertise it with photos everywhere. Leave the "look at me" camera at home when doing for others and helping others. I am sure Fulmer, Pruitt and the powers that be know if you're doing the things that need to be done sincerely without the photos and tweets, at least if they are truly leaving a pathway for return they should, if not then they aren't invested enough in the kid and his progress like they should be to be able to make the call on his return or not.
 

pimo1

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Well so far nobody is agreeing with your posture. I guess my "bubble" is more of the norm. Thanks for your service. If you retired and did your 20 in '97 (or 30) then the military was dramatically different from your end date to your begin date. It's even more dramatically different now. I am an officer. As an officer, I'm responsible for making sure that people (male or female) in my zone are taken care of. The gripes don't up as was said in a famous movie. Your spending time around bases 23 years after you retired, gives you absolutely no understanding of what soldiers go through in modern times.

But please, please, please do all of us currently in the military a favor. Don't do your base shopping/haircut/tailoring, etc. at lunch or at 4:30-5. I can't stand when you old-timers come in at lunch and at five and clog up the lanes. Do your shopping at like 10 or like 2. Deal?
I don't have a posture. I stated a fact. Old timer? Haven't been called that ever by anyone over 5. I don't go on base for shopping privileges you obviously have the wrong picture of me I'm 45, not 65. I spend a lot of time on and around bases because as I mentioned multiple times I have family and friends still in and I also work as a military contractor. If anyone for one second thinks that the military is any form of Sunday school they need help.

As I stated the mere nature of the job leads to a certain type of subculture much like people that work in Emergency Medicine restaurants and Law enforcement. It's not a knock on those professions or the people in them it's just how it is its human nature when you work in high-stress environments people tend to play harder with higher stakes. It's an adrenaline based profession. There is a reason that there are more bars right outside the gates of most military bases than in the rest of the city in most cases. Where, of course, women are never objectified or met with uncouth behavior.
 

CrybabyVol

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I don't have a posture. I stated a fact. Old timer? Haven't been called that ever by anyone over 5. I don't go on base for shopping privileges you obviously have the wrong picture of me I'm 45, not 65. I spend a lot of time on and around bases because as I mentioned multiple times I have family and friends still in and I also work as a military contractor. If anyone for one second thinks that the military is any form of Sunday school they need help.

As I stated the mere nature of the job leads to a certain type of subculture much like people that work in Emergency Medicine restaurants and Law enforcement. It's not a knock on those professions or the people in them it's just how it is its human nature when you work in high-stress environments people tend to play harder with higher stakes. It's an adrenaline based profession. There is a reason that there are more bars right outside the gates of most military bases than in the rest of the city in most cases. Where, of course, women are never objectified or met with uncouth behavior.
Hey man. If you're okay with your back tracking ....
 
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Gandalf

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It can't be racist if it's funny. If you find something racist AND funny the you quite probably are on the "superior" end. Racism should be defined by actions and not by words. This is where we have fallen off the boat. Words don't do harm unless the one spoken too allows them to. I see several posters on this thread (Not pointing you out at all) that need to grow a thicker skin and get over it. What he said was about the time honored black man vs. white man genitalia argument. It wasn't racist it was FUNNY. If you think that statement was racist at all you need to check your "ego".
On THAT I can agree with you - but sadly, not only is it not so today, even mere thoughts are enough to equate with horrid actions. Ergo, if I ask a person, who happens to be black skinned, if they like watermelon as I take a piece of it from the fruit tray - I have committed an act of "verbal lynching" or so the infinite wisdom of the young and woke would tell us.

I must disagree. I always found Chris Rock's stuff fairly racist actually in that the things I heard were always pretty one sided. Same with Martin Lawrence, Tracy Morgan, etc. Eddie Murphy, however, and Dave Chappelle are some of the very few black comedians I have personally heard who absolutely rip everyone equally and do so while poking fun of people's prejudices. Those two are the epitome of what comedy should be IMO. That said, we all best make fun of our own since we know it best, enter Jeff Foxworthy or Jackie Mason.
 

superdave1984

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I must disagree. I always found Chris Rock's stuff fairly racist actually in that the things I heard were always pretty one sided. Same with Martin Lawrence, Tracy Morgan, etc. Eddie Murphy, however, and Dave Chappelle are some of the very few black comedians I have personally heard who absolutely rip everyone equally and do so while poking fun of people's prejudices. Those two are the epitome of what comedy should be IMO. That said, we all best make fun of our own since we know it best, enter Jeff Foxworthy or Jackie Mason.
Chris Rock is extremely racist which is my point. He would agree that if it is funny, it isn't racist.
 

Gandalf

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Chris Rock is extremely racist which is my point. He would agree that if it is funny, it isn't racist.
Ah, and yet I wonder if it were a white comedian in front of a mostly black crowd telling absolutely hilarious (but totally racist) jokes that mostly call out black people (aka the shoe being on the other foot) if Chris Rock would so valiantly defend the guy on stage vs the audience. Somehow, I doubt it.
 
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superdave1984

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Ah, and yet I wonder if it were a white comedian in front of a mostly black crowd telling absolutely hilarious (but totally racist) jokes that mostly call out black people (aka the shoe being on the other foot) if Chris Rock would so valiantly defend the guy on stage vs the audience. Somehow, I doubt it.
You would be correct. I think Rock thinks people of color can't be racist.
 
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82_VOL_83

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On THAT I can agree with you - but sadly, not only is it not so today, even mere thoughts are enough to equate with horrid actions. Ergo, if I ask a person, who happens to be black skinned, if they like watermelon as I take a piece of it from the fruit tray - I have committed an act of "verbal lynching" or so the infinite wisdom of the young and woke would tell us.



I must disagree. I always found Chris Rock's stuff fairly racist actually in that the things I heard were always pretty one sided. Same with Martin Lawrence, Tracy Morgan, etc. Eddie Murphy, however, and Dave Chappelle are some of the very few black comedians I have personally heard who absolutely rip everyone equally and do so while poking fun of people's prejudices. Those two are the epitome of what comedy should be IMO. That said, we all best make fun of our own since we know it best, enter Jeff Foxworthy or Jackie Mason.
I find that the young and woke don't tend to be wise. You are giving credence to their actions by the mere mention of them. The young and the woke should be educated, not coddled or for that matter listened too.
 
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