I apologize in advance....

#51
#51
volfan102455 said:
Actually he was 7-2 and 3rd in the Eastern division of the BIG in 2016 and 6-2 and 3rd in the Eastern division of the BIG in 2015. He has finished no higher than 3rd. His conference record in 2016 would have him tied with Wisconsin for 3rd over all. His conference record in 2015 would have him tied for 4th overall with Northwestern and Wisconsin. Brady Hoke was 2nd in the conference his first two years.

My point was that he has NOT won a championship of any kind in his last 6 years of coaching in the college ranks. And he supposedly took over a team loaded with talent at Michigan but has not finished any higher than 3rd in his division.

And if he is all that folks say he is - he really should finish no lower than 2nd in that division - but both years he lost to a team that he should have been able to beat.

This is the exact same argument that some of you use with CBJ but you fail to use it with other coaches - rather you give them a break.
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But yet you are amazed that Michigan fans are not antsy after 2 years while being amazed that UT fans are after 4.
 
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#55
#55
volfan102455 said:
The funny thing is that if this were Tennessee you would be blaming CBJ for the officials mistake.

You folks are priceless - make excuses for other coaches while raking the coach of your team over the coals making everything his mistake.
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Nice attempt to deflect by (falsely) assuming that I am a Butch hater or Nega. If UT lost the SEC Championship game to Bama (and a chance to go to the playoff) because two SEC officials (let's say they lived in Tuscaloosa and Birmingham) looked at a play on replay and could not see what the rest of the country saw, I would be beyond ticked at the officials. For example, you won't see me blame Lane Kiffin for being too conservative against Bama in 2009 because the refs were tossing the laundry like crazy against UT that day (UT got called for 8x as many penalties). I try to be balanced and I will criticize Butch when he blows a game (such as not going for 2 against UF in 2015)
 
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#57
#57
volfan102455 said:
Actually he was 7-2 and 3rd in the Eastern division of the BIG in 2016 and 6-2 and 3rd in the Eastern division of the BIG in 2015. He has finished no higher than 3rd. His conference record in 2016 would have him tied with Wisconsin for 3rd over all. His conference record in 2015 would have him tied for 4th overall with Northwestern and Wisconsin. Brady Hoke was 2nd in the conference his first two years.

My point was that he has NOT won a championship of any kind in his last 6 years of coaching in the college ranks. And he supposedly took over a team loaded with talent at Michigan but has not finished any higher than 3rd in his division.

And if he is all that folks say he is - he really should finish no lower than 2nd in that division - but both years he lost to a team that he should have been able to beat.

This is the exact same argument that some of you use with CBJ but you fail to use it with other coaches - rather you give them a break.
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You cited Iowa's trouncing by Penn State (B1g Champions), as a reason why they are bad, and in beating Michigan, how Iowa is equitable to Vanderbilt or USCe; that's just flat out ridiculous.

If you need to try to tear down another coach to feel good about CBJ, Harbaugh's a poor target given his record at Michigan going into year 3.
 
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#58
#58
Behr said:
Why did you use Harbaugh's record including the bowl game and not for Butch?

Not a big deal, I know you had a reason, I'm just curious what it was.
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He was particularly concerned with Harbaugh's losses, and comparing them to USCe and Vandy losses; the wins didn't seem relevant to his attempt to create a false parity between fan reactions to Harbaugh's 2016 record vs fan reactions to CBJ's 2016 record.
 
#59
#59
BigOrangeMojo said:
If I were ranking them all...

Freeze - 5
Sumlin, Odom - 4
Butch, Bielema, Malzahn, Mason, Stoops, Orgeron - 3
Muschamp, SharkHumper, Smart - 2
Mullen - 1
Saban - 0 (only if the NCAA finds the bagman)


In short, here's how I view rankings

4's and 5's better win more games than the prior season or they are gone.

2's and 3's are safe as long as they maintain status quo in 2017 - 2's have more room for error than 3's

0's and 1's are safe pending something crazy happening
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I pretty much cosign your rankings except for Freeze. He's a 5 only if the NCAA requires him to be a 5, Ole Miss IMO has him tween a 3 and 4 IMO. Why? How many Ole Miss coaches in modernity do you recall that has beaten Saban's Bammer or ANY Bammer bunch twice?
 
#60
#60
Remy said:
I pretty much cosign your rankings except for Freeze. He's a 5 only if the NCAA requires him to be a 5, Ole Miss IMO has him tween a 3 and 4 IMO. Why? How many Ole Miss coaches in modernity do you recall that has beaten Saban's Bammer or ANY Bammer bunch twice?
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And Ole Miss may pay a big price for Freeze. The question will ultimately be if those 2 wins are worth what may happen to them over the long haul. They have absolutely nothing to show but two wins over Bama. They did not even win the division. No championships at all.
 
#61
#61
Which brings me to a question - if you all feel Freeze should get a pass for beating Bama twice. Would you be okay if CBJ beat Bama in 2017 and 2018 but did not win the division?

That is basically what Freeze did, beat Bama but lost the west.
 
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#62
#62
Media, press, mouthpieces for money and glory typically don't know squat. Especially national news. I love to hear their predictions fail. I want to see this new set of old coaches beat the big boys in the SEC this year. Florida, Georgia, and LSU wins would make me very happy. Beat Bama in the new dome.
 
#63
#63
volfan102455 said:
And Ole Miss may pay a big price for Freeze. The question will ultimately be if those 2 wins are worth what may happen to them over the long haul. They have absolutely nothing to show but two wins over Bama. They did not even win the division. No championships at all.
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They haven't won the conference since 63' and really havent contended for it more than a handful of times in between.
 
#64
#64
volfan102455 said:
Which brings me to a question - if you all feel Freeze should get a pass for beating Bama twice. Would you be okay if CBJ beat Bama in 2017 and 2018 but did not win the division?

That is basically what Freeze did, beat Bama but lost the west.
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2 Bama wins. Wouldn't be trading the east for it anyway.
 
#65
#65
volfan102455 said:
Which brings me to a question - if you all feel Freeze should get a pass for beating Bama twice. Would you be okay if CBJ beat Bama in 2017 and 2018 but did not win the division?

That is basically what Freeze did, beat Bama but lost the west.
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Just a couple of items to consider:

1. Ole Miss hasn't won the conference in over 50 years. There's a different standard there than UT. If you win 8-9 games at Ole Miss consistently, you can be governor of Mississippi. Back to back NY 6 bowls is way above anything Ole Miss has done in over 50 years.

2. If Butch beats Bama but loses the East while going 11-1 that would be a different answer than if Butch beats Bama but only goes 7-5 or 8-4. Even with Ole Miss losing the West, they were as good those 2 seasons as they've been in 50 years.
 
#66
#66
Remy said:
I pretty much cosign your rankings except for Freeze. He's a 5 only if the NCAA requires him to be a 5, Ole Miss IMO has him tween a 3 and 4 IMO. Why? How many Ole Miss coaches in modernity do you recall that has beaten Saban's Bammer or ANY Bammer bunch twice?
Click to expand...

Spot on. Rebs love Hugh!!!
 
#67
#67
I know we probably have a few lawyers on here and maybe a talk show host or two but some of the twisting of facts is quite impressive. I'll try to say this as straight forward as possible...CBJ ain't going anywhere anytime soon unless some "disaster " hit. And if you believe he is then you just do not have your finger on the pulse of what's happening in this program. Just trying to prevent a lot of anxiety and frustration going forward ..that's all..... reminds me of a kid waiting up all night long to see Santa come down the fireplace chimney....ain't happening.....
 
#68
#68
tennrich1 said:
I know we probably have a few lawyers on here and maybe a talk show host or two but some of the twisting of facts is quite impressive. I'll try to say this as straight forward as possible...CBJ ain't going anywhere anytime soon unless some "disaster " hit. And if you believe he is then you just do not have your finger on the pulse of what's happening in this program. Just trying to prevent a lot of anxiety and frustration going forward ..that's all..... reminds me of a kid waiting up all night long to see Santa come down the fireplace chimney....ain't happening.....
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I don't think a "disaster" is needed. Nothing is going to happen to Butch at 8-4 or probably even 7-5; however, we got 2 very fortunate bounces/breaks last year in getting to 8-4. What if those 2 breaks go against us in 2017 and we are 6-6?
 
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#69
#69
volfan102455 said:
Which brings me to a question - if you all feel Freeze should get a pass for beating Bama twice. Would you be okay if CBJ beat Bama in 2017 and 2018 but did not win the division?

That is basically what Freeze did, beat Bama but lost the west.
Click to expand...

If UGA or UF suddenly assume the dominant role of Bama in the East... then you have an oranges to oranges comparison. Prior to the Saban era at Bama... Freeze would have won the West at least once and probably more.
 
#70
#70
tennrich1 said:
I know we probably have a few lawyers on here and maybe a talk show host or two but some of the twisting of facts is quite impressive. I'll try to say this as straight forward as possible...CBJ ain't going anywhere anytime soon unless some "disaster " hit. And if you believe he is then you just do not have your finger on the pulse of what's happening in this program. Just trying to prevent a lot of anxiety and frustration going forward ..that's all..... reminds me of a kid waiting up all night long to see Santa come down the fireplace chimney....ain't happening.....
Click to expand...

Explain what is going on... and how you are so close to have your finger on the pulse.

Are you saying he's the HC in '18 if he goes 5-7? 4-8? 6-6?

If that is true... and you really do have your finger on the "pulse"... then that is a pretty pathetic statement on UT's AD.
 
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#71
#71
Longsufferingvol said:
You are leaving out the fact that we almost lost to Georgia and App State and needed miracle plays to win those games (thus we were 2 plays away from 6-6). You are also leaving out the fact that the team looked sloppy in almost every game (7 or 8 turnovers cost us the A&M game as just one example). And lets not even address the Vandy and South Carolina losses.
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Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades my friend. If you want to play that card let's look at the flip side. The year before we almost beat Oklahoma and Alabama, so does that make it any better for 2015? Nope the score when the clock hits zero is all that matters when they are compiling records at the end of year.
 
#73
#73
jarnol32 said:
Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades my friend. If you want to play that card let's look at the flip side. The year before we almost beat Oklahoma and Alabama, so does that make it any better for 2015? Nope the score when the clock hits zero is all that matters when they are compiling records at the end of year.
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It does matter. The fact that the 2016 team had to have so many crazy second halfs to win games shows how ill prepared they were coming into the games. You cant deny that was a huge pattern the whole season. The team came out and played like complete ****e from 1/2 to 3/4 of virtunally every game. The most unsettling thing was this was a veteran team! People want to talk about injuries and Hurd, but we had 7 or 8 turnovers in the Texas A&M game. Those are WTF numbers. If the team played disciplined and consistent football they would have been 11-1 last year, period. All the issues we saw last year like sloppy play, mistakes, and lack of focus reflect on the coaching and not in a positive way.
 
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#74
#74
jarnol32 said:
The year before we almost beat Oklahoma and Alabama, so does that make it any better for 2015? Nope the score when the clock hits zero is all that matters when they are compiling records at the end of year.
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Put it this way.... Almost beating Bama in Tuscaloosa and Florida in the swamp is infinitely better than losing to Vandy and South Carolina.In the former scenarios you can put a positive spin on them and say you are getting close to where you want to be (competing for SEC division and conference championships). There is no positive spin to be put on losses to Vandy and South Carolina.
 
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