Howard to the Lakers

#77
#77
zjcvols said:
If he played in the 1990's, he wouldn't be a top five center in the league.
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I disagree. Shaq, Hakeem, and Robinson (in any order) then Howard, and I would say Howard has had seasons where he was better than them.
 
#79
#79
_vol said:
Do you have a top five of players that were the recognized "best" at their position when the rest of the league predominantly sucked at said position?

I dunno if I can put them in order, but off the top of my head I have:

Howard, Stockton, Isiah Thomas, Shawn Kemp, and Dennis Scott
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I would say most of the time that you think that it's probably because you are underrating players. When John Stockton was dominating there weren't a lot of guards going for 20 and 8, but I don't believe you have to do that to be a star. Guys like Mookie Blaylock are forgotten simply because he never scored a ton, but I'll take him over Marbury.

The Shawn Kemp one does kind of confuse me. In my mind the 90s seem to be the era where PFs were at their peak.
 
#82
#82
FWIW.....

Hakeem:
1988 (25 years old) - 23, 12, and 2.7 shooting .555 TS%

Howard:
2011 (25 years old) - 23, 14, and 2.4 shooting .616 TS%
 
#84
#84
LMAO. So playing Robert Parrish once every 41 games is the reason Hakeem shot a much lower %? I don't think the league was that saturated with good centers until the 90s, and even then, accounting for a 6% difference in shooting and 2 rpg is very questionable.
 
#86
#86
For all the fancy moves that Hakeem had, he only shot .512 FG% for his career. He was great, but not the offensive talent people make him out to be. He was a versatile scorer, but versatile scorers are almost always overrated. We love to see the majesty of the dream shake, even when it misses. Howard muscling his way in for the easy layup? Not as impressive.
 
#87
#87
n_huffhines said:
For all the fancy moves that Hakeem had, he only shot .512 FG% for his career. He was great, but not the offensive talent people make him out to be. He was a versatile scorer, but versatile scorers are almost always overrated. We love to see the majesty of the dream shake, even when it misses. Howard muscling his way in for the easy layup? Not as impressive.
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You're right. Not that impressive. Except when you remember his competition night and night out and Dwight Howard's competition.

/sarcasm
 
#88
#88
zjcvols said:
You're right. Not that impressive. Except when you remember his competition night and night out and Dwight Howard's competition.

/sarcasm
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Except for there are great defensive centers in the league right now. You guys are comparing the offensive prowess of the competition, but that doesn't really factor into this point. Noah, Chandler, Horford, Bynum, Monroe, Camby, Gasol, Gortat, McGee, Jefferson, Hilario, etc. are all big bodies that can bang.

Maybe one reason there's only one center averaging 20 ppg is because the D today is better? Probably a thought that hasn't crossed many minds.
 
#89
#89
n_huffhines said:
Except for there are great defensive centers in the league right now. You guys are comparing the offensive prowess of the competition, but that doesn't really factor into this point. Noah, Chandler, Horford, Bynum, Monroe, Camby, Gasol, Gortat, McGee, Jefferson, Hilario, etc. are all big bodies that can bang.

Maybe one reason there's only one center averaging 20 ppg is because the D today is better? Probably a thought that hasn't crossed many minds.
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It hasn't crossed anyone's mind because it's absurd.
 
#90
#90
milohimself said:
Granted and agreed, but who else?
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Shaq and Hakeem to me are just flat out better players.

One could make a case for Robinson/Ewing/Mourning to all be better.

There just in't many good centers in the NBA, there are two guys that are true centers who are actually good ( Howard and Bynum ).

Andrew Bogut has been an all-star, if that isn't a complete indictment of big men in the NBA then I don't know what is.

There were other big men who were good in the 90's as well.

Mutombo, Divac, Smits, Daugherty.

I believe Howard is better than the last four I just named. The game is different now and the level of competition these days is pretty shotty fro top to bottom.

I'd love to see what Hakeem in his prime would do to Nene Hilario or Al Horford.
 
#91
#91
n_huffhines said:
LMAO. So playing Robert Parrish once every 41 games is the reason Hakeem shot a much lower %? I don't think the league was that saturated with good centers until the 90s, and even then, accounting for a 6% difference in shooting and 2 rpg is very questionable.
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Totally differnt shot selctions, ya know Hakeem had an actual skill set on offense and attempted more than just dunks and 3 foot hook shots.
 
#92
#92
Robinson - probably a case to be made
Ewing - No.
Zo - Yeah.

Howard would have been a top 4/5 center in the 90's
 
#93
#93
GahLee said:
It hasn't crossed anyone's mind because it's absurd.
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So you mean to tell me that you know for sure that all 30 centers in the NBA in 1988 on average were better defensively than the 30 centers today? I don't think you can even name 15 starting centers from 1988.

I'm willing to bet your opinion is mostly based on comparing top 5 centers from each era, with regard to overall play.
 
#94
#94
GahLee said:
Totally differnt shot selctions, ya know Hakeem had an actual skill set on offense and attempted more than just dunks and 3 foot hook shots.
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But why select to shoot from there when you can make a higher % shot inside like Howard does?
 
#95
#95
BTW, advanced statisticians use a metric called "net scoring" to measure overall scoring contribution. Every shot costs your team 1 point, because on average a possession is worth 1 point. Net scoring = Points - FGa and it accounts for FT's as well.

Kevin Durant led the league this year with like 4.8 nppg. 2 nppg will usually make you about top 10-15 in the league. Howard averages 3.1 nppg for his career. Olajuwan averaged about 2.1 nppg.
 
#96
#96
milohimself said:
Robinson - probably a case to be made
Ewing - No.
Zo - Yeah.

Howard would have been a top 4/5 center in the 90's
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Probably true.

The game is different now though. So many of the 7 footers play away from the basket these days, so when you have a big like Howard or Bynum who are inside players they're going to have an advantage.
 
#97
#97
n_huffhines said:
But why select to shoot from there when you can make a higher % shot inside like Howard does?
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I guess he had to considering the level of defender he went up against.

Howard is a really good player but his stat line to me is inflated due to the level of competition and the nature of todays game.
 
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