How many can we sign

#51
#51
Disclaimer - these are all numbers and blueshirt history of the past few years as I understand them (starting in 2014).

In 2014, we signed 32 commits. From everything I followed at that time, there was 1 rumored blueshirt from that class: Robertson. When Swafford went on scholarship, he counted forward to the '15 class as well (rule says if a walk-on receives a scholarship within his first two years with that program, he has to count towards the next class) (assuming from this that the other 5 above the 25 limit were backcounted to previous classes with spots available).

In 2015, we added 29 commits. Adding in the 2 blueshirts from the '14 class, that put the number at 31. With no space to backcount, there needed to be 6 blueshirts (from what I saw, rumored to be Bruce, Oliver, Perry, Townsend, Lovingood, Young). When Bruce & Oliver didn't make it to fall camp, their blueshirt status didn't matter anymore - they weren't going on scholarship. That left 4 blueshirts to count against the 2016 class.

In 2016, we added 21 commits on NSD in February. With no space to backcount, and with 4 blueshirts counting against the class, 21 commits was the most we could take due to the SEC's 25-max-limit.

That leads me to think that adding Jeremy Lewis & Mykelle McDaniel would have to mean that's 2 counting against the 2017 class. Saw someone mention that if McDaniel did in fact OV last week, then the staff could forward count Young's blueshirt to 2017 instead of 2016, allowing McDaniel to fall into the '16 class. But that doesn't change there being 2 recruits counting forward to the 2017 class. Another note regarding Lewis - he may be a PWO right now, but that's what a blueshirt is pretty much: a walk-on that goes on scholarship once fall camp gets started. These things just aren't made public very much, so it's hard to track.

All this to say, again, I could be wrong on these numbers, but I've tried to track this fairly consistently since the 2014 class. If anyone sees an error in this somewhere, feel free to let me know. Thanks, GBO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#52
#52
RockyTopInBham said:
Disclaimer - these are all numbers and blueshirt history of the past few years as I understand them (starting in 2014).

In 2014, we signed 32 commits. From everything I followed at that time, there was 1 rumored blueshirt from that class: Robertson. When Swafford went on scholarship, he counted forward to the '15 class as well (rule says if a walk-on receives a scholarship within his first two years with that program, he has to count towards the next class) (assuming from this that the other 5 above the 25 limit were backcounted to previous classes with spots available).

In 2015, we added 29 commits. Adding in the 2 blueshirts from the '14 class, that put the number at 31. With no space to backcount, there needed to be 6 blueshirts (from what I saw, rumored to be Bruce, Oliver, Perry, Townsend, Lovingood, Young). When Bruce & Oliver didn't make it to fall camp, their blueshirt status didn't matter anymore - they weren't going on scholarship. That left 4 blueshirts to count against the 2016 class.

In 2016, we added 21 commits on NSD in February. With no space to backcount, and with 4 blueshirts counting against the class, 21 commits was the most we could take due to the SEC's 25-max-limit.

That leads me to think that adding Jeremy Lewis & Mykelle McDaniel would have to mean that's 2 counting against the 2017 class. Saw someone mention that if McDaniel did in fact OV last week, then the staff could forward count Young's blueshirt to 2017 instead of 2016, allowing McDaniel to fall into the '16 class. But that doesn't change there being 2 recruits counting forward to the 2017 class. Another note regarding Lewis - he may be a PWO right now, but that's what a blueshirt is pretty much: a walk-on that goes on scholarship once fall camp gets started. These things just aren't made public very much, so it's hard to track.

All this to say, again, I could be wrong on these numbers, but I've tried to track this fairly consistently since the 2014 class. If anyone sees an error in this somewhere, feel free to let me know. Thanks, GBO.
Click to expand...

It looks right to me. When VQ said a class of 25 it made sense to me. History has shown at least recently one way or another there will be enough attrition to take the class max. If you can't back count, that's it. Over 25 you're taking spots from 2018.

We can't take 25 today. History says we should be able to on NSD.
 
#53
#53
"Jones said UT will try to sign a 25-man class in 2017."
Dustin Dopirak @tennesseebeat on Twitter
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#55
#55
Rocky Top, I agree that it's tough to decipher completely because there are waivers and various rules that can be taken advantage up coupled with the fact that SEC teams don't have to release any scholarship information.

As you know, early-enrollees can count backwards if there is room. Going back to 2013, there were only 5 EEs. There was room to count them all back, so I'll start there. That class was 22, count 5 back, taking the class number to 17.

In 2014, we have room to count back 8 (25 minus 17 from 2013), taking our ICs from 32 to 24.

In 2015, we have room to count back 1 (25 minus 24 in 2014), taking our ICs from 28 to 27. 2 have to count forward since we're over 25. Perry and Young are the blueshirts and count forward. Bruce and Stewart never received financial aid, so they aren't initial counters.

2016, we have room for 23 ICs but only 22 NLIs since Stewart signed his NLI the year before. We take all 22 NLIs. Henderson does not qualify, thus not counting as an IC, taking our ICs down to 21. We have room for 2 more to get up to the 23 for the year - Lewis and McDaniel. And they're able to sign now that it's outside the NLI window, which is December to May.

Those are my numbers.

As far as Swafford going on scholarship, there are rules that state that if an initial counter leaves on his own, he can be replaced by another player if all spots are filled. I would be surprised if they didn't take advantage of a rule like that. Otherwise, I don't see PWOs receiving scholarships their first 2 years.

I could be wrong on the details as well, but that's how I could make it work. That would leave room for a full class this time, without any finagling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#56
#56
Kristy* said:
Rocky Top, I agree that it's tough to decipher completely because there are waivers and various rules that can be taken advantage up coupled with the fact that SEC teams don't have to release any scholarship information.

As you know, early-enrollees can count backwards if there is room. Going back to 2013, there were only 5 EEs. There was room to count them all back, so I'll start there. That class was 22, count 5 back, taking the class number to 17.

In 2014, we have room to count back 8 (25 minus 17 from 2013), taking our ICs from 32 to 24.

In 2015, we have room to count back 1 (25 minus 24 in 2014), taking our ICs from 28 to 27. 2 have to count forward since we're over 25. Perry and Young are the blueshirts and count forward. Bruce and Stewart never received financial aid, so they aren't initial counters.

2016, we have room for 23 ICs but only 22 NLIs since Stewart signed his NLI the year before. We take all 22 NLIs. Henderson does not qualify, thus not counting as an IC, taking our ICs down to 21. We have room for 2 more to get up to the 23 for the year - Lewis and McDaniel. And they're able to sign now that it's outside the NLI window, which is December to May.

Those are my numbers.

As far as Swafford going on scholarship, there are rules that state that if an initial counter leaves on his own, he can be replaced by another player if all spots are filled. I would be surprised if they didn't take advantage of a rule like that. Otherwise, I don't see PWOs receiving scholarships their first 2 years.

I could be wrong on the details as well, but that's how I could make it work. That would leave room for a full class this time, without any finagling.
Click to expand...

Won't lie to you, Kristy. I feel like I'm reading another language looking at this. I don't think I understand the correlation between early enrollees and what class they belong in. And I clearly don't get your initial count numbers. But I'm pretty sure Corey Hendo still counts as a counter even though he didn't qualify. I also don't think Stewart ever signed a NLI. In any case, I gave you a like for the work you put in to try to explain. Alas, no hablo.
 
#57
#57
RockyTopInBham said:
Won't lie to you, Kristy. I feel like I'm reading another language looking at this. I don't think I understand the correlation between early enrollees and what class they belong in. And I clearly don't get your initial count numbers. But I'm pretty sure Corey Hendo still counts as a counter even though he didn't qualify. I also don't think Stewart ever signed a NLI. In any case, I gave you a like for the work you put in to try to explain. Alas, no hablo.
Click to expand...

LOL.

I'll add that I used to think the same thing about a guy still being an IC even if he didn't qualify, but I looked in the bylaws:

15.5.6.3.1 Recruited Student-Athlete Entering in Fall Term, Aided in First Year. [FBS/FCS] A
student-athlete recruited (see Bylaw 15.02.8) by the awarding institution who enters in the fall term and
receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics ability) during the first academic year in
residence shall be an initial counter for that year in football.

So, if a guy doesn't qualify and never attends school or receives aid, then he isn't an IC.

There is a separate rule:

13.9.2.3 Limitation on Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings—Bowl
Subdivision Football. [FBS] In bowl subdivision football, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number
of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial
aid from December 1 through May 31.

Henderson would count against that limit. But signing guys like Lewis and McDaniel wouldn't count against that limit and could 'take' Henderson's and Stewart's 'spot' as an initial counter.
 
#59
#59
RockyTopInBham said:
I agree with Crunchy on this one. I don't know how the 28 number came about. We have no more space to backcount, and we'll likely have 2 past blueshirts (RB- Jeremy Lewis & either DE- Mykelle McDaniel or RB- Joe Young, depending on who you ask) that will count against the 2017 class. So that would put the # at 23 2017 recruits we can add. (And when guys like Creamer, Raulerson, and Townsend transfer, that has no bearing at all on the number for THIS recruiting class. It only affects the overall 85 number, which we've said will take care of itself).

Yes, I know we're at 23 commits now. But we've seen this before, and 2 things are probably going to happen:
1. Commits will be replaced by higher priority targets on the commit list (like if Justin Foster committed, I'd say expect one of the current LB commits to move on).
2. A couple commits will be encouraged to blueshirt (counting them towards the 2018 class).

I'd expect, if not already, Butch will probably ask a few of the guys to hold off on official visits. This way, if they need to blueshirt a couple guys (like Cimaglia) to fit more elite players in the class, then they can make that decision in January during those last official visit weekends. Point being, the only way you get to that 28 number is if you're blueshirting at least 3 towards the 2018 class, and if you're not including the 2 guys that will count against this class that are previous BS, then you'd need 5 guys to blueshirt towards the 2018 class to get to 28. Hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation but I question what's highlighted in bold above. I was going thru threads on here last night & a couple of fellow longtime standing members on here say that both C.J. Lewis & McDaniel would count for the 2016 class & not 2017 because we had room for 2 more recruits in the 2016 class.

Placing them in the 2017 class would give us 25 total commits right now. Placing them in the 2016 class makes it our limit to 25 commits from the 21 we already had because of the blueshirts. This stuff can get highly confusing for sure.

Volnukem said:
Interesting. My numbers show we had two spots to backcount against the 2016 class, which McDaniel and Lewis filled. I think we can take 25 this class, without considering the 85 limit.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking too. Adding both C.J. Lewis & McDaniel counts toward 2016 & makes it a count of 25.

RockyTopInBham said:
Disclaimer - these are all numbers and blueshirt history of the past few years as I understand them (starting in 2014).

In 2014, we signed 32 commits. From everything I followed at that time, there was 1 rumored blueshirt from that class: Robertson. When Swafford went on scholarship, he counted forward to the '15 class as well (rule says if a walk-on receives a scholarship within his first two years with that program, he has to count towards the next class) (assuming from this that the other 5 above the 25 limit were backcounted to previous classes with spots available).

In 2015, we added 29 commits. Adding in the 2 blueshirts from the '14 class, that put the number at 31. With no space to backcount, there needed to be 6 blueshirts (from what I saw, rumored to be Bruce, Oliver, Perry, Townsend, Lovingood, Young). When Bruce & Oliver didn't make it to fall camp, their blueshirt status didn't matter anymore - they weren't going on scholarship. That left 4 blueshirts to count against the 2016 class.

In 2016, we added 21 commits on NSD in February. With no space to backcount, and with 4 blueshirts counting against the class, 21 commits was the most we could take due to the SEC's 25-max-limit.

That leads me to think that adding Jeremy Lewis & Mykelle McDaniel would have to mean that's 2 counting against the 2017 class. Saw someone mention that if McDaniel did in fact OV last week, then the staff could forward count Young's blueshirt to 2017 instead of 2016, allowing McDaniel to fall into the '16 class. But that doesn't change there being 2 recruits counting forward to the 2017 class. Another note regarding Lewis - he may be a PWO right now, but that's what a blueshirt is pretty much: a walk-on that goes on scholarship once fall camp gets started. These things just aren't made public very much, so it's hard to track.

All this to say, again, I could be wrong on these numbers, but I've tried to track this fairly consistently since the 2014 class. If anyone sees an error in this somewhere, feel free to let me know. Thanks, GBO.
Click to expand...

That was a lot of information as well to read. I highlight above in bold again to say I still think those two players in Lewis & McDaniel go towards the 2016 signing class.

I've seen this being said by multiple respectable posters/members here on the forums but I also saw one other poster like you say those count to the 2017 class. It's really just hard to understand even though you done a lot of solid explaining. Thanks!

BTW, I have my own recruiting thread on the forums & I want to post the correct information & not the wrong or misleading information. Thanks!
 
Last edited:
#60
#60
I guess we'll just have to see how the numbers play out, or see if someone like Larry (LWSVOL), Fort, or Callahan say specifically what the details are with these two guys. I just feel like if we had room in the 2016 class, we would have already filled those spots with guys like Victor or Dickerson. JMO. In any case, glad to have both McDaniel and Lewis aboard.
 
#61
#61
RockyTopInBham said:
I guess we'll just have to see how the numbers play out, or see if someone like Larry (LWSVOL), Fort, or Callahan say specifically what the details are with these two guys. I just feel like if we had room in the 2016 class, we would have already filled those spots with guys like Victor or Dickerson. JMO. In any case, glad to have both McDaniel and Lewis aboard.
Click to expand...

That was my thinking as well. Butch doesn't just leave open scholarships out there if he can fill them. If they were there on NSD, he would have filled them. Now if the talk of spots somehow opened after NSD because of kids leaving or not making it and Butch couldn't fill those till after a certain date, ok. That may be true. I'd like for one of the services to give an update with concrete info so we know not only for this situation, but for the same scenarios in the future.
 
#62
#62
RockyTopInBham said:
I guess we'll just have to see how the numbers play out, or see if someone like Larry (LWSVOL), Fort, or Callahan say specifically what the details are with these two guys. I just feel like if we had room in the 2016 class, we would have already filled those spots with guys like Victor or Dickerson. JMO. In any case, glad to have both McDaniel and Lewis aboard.
Click to expand...

Yeah agree. But that was why I was pointing out the difference in the 25 limit for NLIs vs the 25 limit for initial counters. We had room for 2 more initial counters by my numbers, but we didn't have room for any more NLIs. That is why we couldn't have taken any more (Dickerson for example). But that rule has a time-frame of Dec 1st to May 31st. So, Jones took what he could then (on NSD), and outside that window, he was able to add two to complete his initial counter class.

My explanation isn't contradicting your thought that Jones would have taken more if he could. I'm explaining why I think he couldn't take more then but could take more now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#63
#63
Kristy* said:
Yeah agree. But that was why I was pointing out the difference in the 25 limit for NLIs vs the 25 limit for initial counters. We had room for 2 more initial counters by my numbers, but we didn't have room for any more NLIs. That is why we couldn't have taken any more (Dickerson for example). But that rule has a time-frame of Dec 1st to May 31st. So, Jones took what he could then (on NSD), and outside that window, he was able to add two to complete his initial counter class.

My explanation isn't contradicting your thought that Jones would have taken more if he could. I'm explaining why I think he couldn't take more then but could take more now.
Click to expand...

Ok, your initial counter argument makes more sense to me now. I think the part I get stuck on is though we have space in the initial counters side of the numbers to bring these guys in, we still have to assign these guys to a recruiting class according to NLI's, and that's why I get the numbers I do when it comes to counting those two guys towards the '17 class. All just guessing on my part at this point, and I've yet to see from anyone that Lewis is going to be on scholarship anyways.
 
#64
#64
RockyTopInBham said:
Ok, your initial counter argument makes more sense to me now. I think the part I get stuck on is though we have space in the initial counters side of the numbers to bring these guys in, we still have to assign these guys to a recruiting class according to NLI's, and that's why I get the numbers I do when it comes to counting those two guys towards the '17 class. All just guessing on my part at this point, and I've yet to see from anyone that Lewis is going to be on scholarship anyways.
Click to expand...

Guys are assigned to a class by initial counter only. So, if we had room for more ICs in '16, then we would count them there. The separate 25 limit for NLIs is yearly also, but it just dictates how many you can sign between Dec. - May (with backcounting allowed). Outside that window, you could sign any number of NLIs (because there is no limit) and assign them where they fit. Make sense?
 
#65
#65
Kristy* said:
Guys are assigned to a class by initial counter only. So, if we had room for more ICs in '16, then we would count them there. The separate 25 limit for NLIs is yearly also, but it just dictates how many you can sign between Dec. - May (with backcounting allowed). Outside that window, you could sign any number of NLIs (because there is no limit) and assign them where they fit. Make sense?
Click to expand...

200.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#66
#66
RockyTopInBham said:
Ok, your initial counter argument makes more sense to me now. I think the part I get stuck on is though we have space in the initial counters side of the numbers to bring these guys in, we still have to assign these guys to a recruiting class according to NLI's, and that's why I get the numbers I do when it comes to counting those two guys towards the '17 class. All just guessing on my part at this point, and I've yet to see from anyone that Lewis is going to be on scholarship anyways.
Click to expand...

Reports are that Lewis is coming in as a Preferred Walk-On which wouldn't count towards a scholarship initially of course.
 
#67
#67
Tried to find what I could. Looks like Larry (LWSVOL) commented on this the week before Lewis committed. He tends to have a good idea of numbers and such.

Says there's no room for Lewis or McDaniel to count towards the '16 class. Also addresses the Henderson spot counting even though he didn't qualify and make it in.
 
Last edited:
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top