Honest question about the OC and offense

[SaintLouisVol]

There is no way to avoid the piling on I suppose, but I would love to entertain discussion on this question:

Do we really know what the Butch Jones offense actually looks like?

I am not dismissing AT ALL the thought that the play calling may be subpar or even that the scheme itself is poor. But, in light of the execution in the passing game and the overall play of the oline, how do you really even know?

If the OC has no confidence at all in the team's ability to execute certain plays, why would he call them? Wouldn't the team's propensity to turn over the football cause some limitations as well?

Maybe Debord does need to go, and at this point, I think he will be gone if only to placate the masses. But, without significant improvement in execution, will it really matter?

I'm not necessarily defending the guy, but I do think a lot of people are making a simple observation in a situation that isn't that simple.

 

[SayNoToJorts]

I will be amazed if he doesn't step down on his own

 

[McDad]

There is no way to avoid the piling on I suppose, but I would love to entertain discussion on this question:

Do we really know what the Butch Jones offense actually looks like?

I am not dismissing AT ALL the thought that the play calling may be subpar or even that the scheme itself is poor. But, in light of the execution in the passing game and the overall play of the oline, how do you really even know?

If the OC has no confidence at all in the team's ability to execute certain plays, why would he call them? Wouldn't the team's propensity to turn over the football cause some limitations as well?

Maybe Debord does need to go, and at this point, I think he will be gone if only to placate the masses. But, without significant improvement in execution, will it really matter?

I'm not necessarily defending the guy, but I do think a lot of people are making a simple observation in a situation that isn't that simple.

When CBJ was hired as our new HC, a Cincinnati Bearcat fan posted a link to an analysis of his offense. I have looked for that but cannot find it. Those who want to lump all of our issues into the DeBord/CBJ sucks column should spend a few minutes reading Seth Price's work.

 

[Mick]

I'm not so sure the problems with Dobbs and the passing game did not come down to CBJ was simply trying to make right a promise he had to break to Dobbs about red-shirting. Dobbs essentially lost a year of free education so he is the starter. That and Dobbs gave us the best chance with a horrible OL.

I get what you are saying why try to throw if you know your QB is limited in that area.

 

[McDad]

I'm not so sure the problems with Dobbs and the passing game did not come down to CBJ was simply trying to make right a promise he had to break to Dobbs about red-shirting. Dobbs essentially lost a year of free education so he is the starter. That and Dobbs gave us the best chance with a horrible OL.

I have wondered the same. Is it possible that CBJ and Dobbs had a gentleman's agreement since the red shirt was burned. But then i reflect and think that notion is ridiculous conspiracy - level stuff.

 

[james_govols]

The offense is weird because even though it's a read option, Dobbs never seems to have the option to keep it.

Also you have to add in poor offensive line play, poor passing, and predictable play calling.

This offense can be good though.

 

[UneducatedGuess]

I'm not so sure the problems with Dobbs and the passing game did not come down to CBJ was simply trying to make right a promise he had to break to Dobbs about red-shirting. Dobbs essentially lost a year of free education so he is the starter. That and Dobbs gave us the best chance with a horrible OL.

I get what you are saying why try to throw if you know your QB is limited in that area.

Yes - because a kid who was heavily recruited to play QB would be upset about being able to play QB.

This conspiracy theory is so dumb.

It's similar to the people who argue that if we ran the I-formation Hurd wouldn't stayed. Hurd is changing positions because he doesn't want the injuries in the NFL. I-formation, no I-formation, doesn't matter if you don't want to be a RB.

 

[zydane47]

I've been thinking about this today, why has Dobbs thrown so much this year? It was apparent last year he had problems throwing but when he ran it helped set up the pass because the LBs had to contain and not cover.

If some of the rumors are true that Butch made promises to Hurd about the offense, maybe one of them was that Hurd would get more touches. So he tells Dobbs, look don't keep it unless you know for sure you'll get the first. So here we have Hurd getting more touches, but not running as hard and so we get in 3rd and long and have to throw with a shaky QB.

A little crazy? Yeah, but if one was into believe rumors than it's possible I guess.

 

[Mick]

I have wondered the same. Is it possible that CBJ and Dobbs had a gentleman's agreement since the red shirt was burned. But then i reflect and think that notion is ridiculous conspiracy - level stuff.

Just trying to make myself feel better about the future of our passing game and just an alt theory to bad scheme and bad play calling.

 

[landscapingvol]

The offense is weird because even though it's a read option, Dobbs never seems to have the option to keep it.

Also you have to add in poor offensive line play, poor passing, and predictable play calling.

This offense can be good though.

No, he has the option to keep it he just doesn't know how to read the defensive end most of the time which is puzzling

 

[james_govols]

No, he has the option to keep it he just doesn't know how to read the defensive end most of the time which is puzzling

I'll disagree with you. He read it fine last year. This year I don't believe I've seen him keep it once. Instead we are doing designed QB draws which aren't really draws. Lol

 

[landscapingvol]

I've been thinking about this today, why has Dobbs thrown so much this year? It was apparent last year he had problems throwing but when he ran it helped set up the pass because the LBs had to contain and not cover.

If some of the rumors are true that Butch made promises to Hurd about the offense, maybe one of them was that Hurd would get more touches. So he tells Dobbs, look don't keep it unless you know for sure you'll get the first. So here we have Hurd getting more touches, but not running as hard and so we get in 3rd and long and have to throw with a shaky QB.

A little crazy? Yeah, but if one was into believe rumors than it's possible I guess.

To spread the defense in order to be able to run the ball more effectively that is why he has thrown the ball more, teams aren't afraid of his legs if he can't hurt them with his arm. It's not some crazy theory

 

[Mick]

Yes - because a kid who was heavily recruited to play QB would be upset about being able to play QB.

This conspiracy theory is so dumb.

It's similar to the people who argue that if we ran the I-formation Hurd wouldn't stayed. Hurd is changing positions because he doesn't want the injuries in the NFL. I-formation, no I-formation, doesn't matter if you don't want to be a RB.

Who said anything about Dobbs being upset in this conspiracy theory. It was playing more to CBJ doing what he felt like he should based on his own code and standards and it is something that was never stated to Dobbs himself. Dobbs does not have a clue in this conspiracy theory.

 

[ALLVOL 4LIFE]

I'm not so sure the problems with Dobbs and the passing game did not come down to CBJ was simply trying to make right a promise he had to break to Dobbs about red-shirting. Dobbs essentially lost a year of free education so he is the starter. That and Dobbs gave us the best chance with a horrible OL.

I get what you are saying why try to throw if you know your QB is limited in that area.

If as a head coach, he did do this, and it becomes knowledge, he should be removed and contract terminated. No promises should be made to a player, at any cost. There is always someone better and if a coach doesn't play the best player, he is sabotaging the program. This could very well b the issue. Time will tell.

 

[Mick]

If as a head coach, he did do this, and it becomes knowledge, he should be removed and contract terminated. No promises should be made to a player, at any cost. There is always someone better and if a coach doesn't play the best player, he is sabotaging the program. This could very well b the issue. Time will tell.

Coaches make promises to recruits all the time. In this case CBJ did tell Dobbs he would be red -shirted. It would be sabotage to knowingly play a lesser QB because of some personal code,

 

[landscapingvol]

I'll disagree with you. He read it fine last year. This year I don't believe I've seen him keep it once. Instead we are doing designed QB draws which aren't really draws. Lol

I would say defenses are disguising how they defend the read option more effectively as opposed to last year and Debord/Dobbs have not been able to adjust

 

[james_govols]

I would say defenses are disguising how they defend the read option more effectively as opposed to last year and Debord/Dobbs have not been able to adjust

That could be true. Honestly, with the way the offensive line has been playing why not load the box, tell the DEs to play conservative, and force UT to run it up the middle?

That would seem to effectively shut down the offense if Dobbs can't make the passes.