Holly isn’t handling the termination well...

[XknoxvolsX]

Bob Petrino left the Falcons with more grace than Holly Warlick has behaved after being fired by Coach Fulmer

Whoa, now, that’s a huge statement there!

 

[lvocd]

Don’t forget that Pat was still at practice those first few seasons as Head Coach Emeritus. You can’t discount the impact she had just being in the room. I’ve heard recently too that she was still mainly running practice and teams tend to play how they practice. As soon as she was completely out of the picture the wheels started coming off.

As for Harper. It’s was pretty easy to be a star point guard when you had the 3 Meeks around you.

Jolly’s mental and physical toughness are what made her a successful point guard. Those qualities were what Pat prized most in a player, and Kellie had them like few others had either before or since those days. Candace Parker’s legendary toughness in continuing to play with her darn arm dislocated from her shoulder — TWICE! — was the most amazing thing I ever saw an athlete do, but Kellie’s dogged determination to come back from ACL surgery to lead Tennessee to the national championship was second.

 

[madtownvol]

Don’t forget that Pat was still at practice those first few seasons as Head Coach Emeritus. You can’t discount the impact she had just being in the room. I’ve heard recently too that she was still mainly running practice and teams tend to play how they practice. As soon as she was completely out of the picture the wheels started coming off.

As for Harper. It’s was pretty easy to be a star point guard when you had the 3 Meeks around you.

I am not forgetting that detail at all. Unquestionably, the players that Holly inherited had internalized many qualities of Pat's system. I have said before as well, that Holly's demise began when the last of Pat's player legacy left.

But again in 2012-13 when Holly won coach of the year, no one could have known what would transpire in the future. Holly did a job well enough to earn the benefit of the doubt in those first three seasons. Yet, numerous fans continued to proclaim that she was totally incompetent when, at that point, she had over a 75% win percentage, SEC titles, and 2 elite 8 and a sweet 16 appearances.

I don't even understand your point about Jolly. What does that change about the reasons many fans want her to be the next LV coach?

 

[Coach Jumper]

The animosity expressed toward Holly seems to run pretty deep and perhaps a bit deeper than just a rational assessment of her job performance.

Let's not forget, she started out well. Let''s look at her first 3 years:

2012-2013
Holly became head coach and the team had lost 5 starters to graduation; it was predicted to be a major rebuilding year. How did she do?
27-8; SEC regular season title; lost in elite 8
Warlick named Spalding Maggie Dixon National Rookie Coach of the Year and SEC Coach of the Year

2013-2014
29-6; 2nd in SEC conference and SEC conference tournament champ; lost in sweet 16

2014-2015
30-6; tied for SEC regular season champ; lost in elite 8 (this record is doubly impressive because team leader Izzy Harrison was lost to an ACL injury during the season)

Objectively, those are three solid seasons and they were very much on par with the latter part of CPS's career. As we know, things took a down turn after that. During these good years, however, there was still a very vocal group of fans who railed that Holly was completely incompetent, put her hands on her hips too much (a pose that Kellie Jolly Harper also likes BTW), and that she never deserved the job!

Now per KJH, her advocates are saying that she is Pat's perfect replacement because she is in the family and had been a star PG for CPS. You could have made the same case for Holly back in 2012. One difference is that Harper has been a head coach at several schools whereas Holly was a life long assistant.

That difference is noteworthy but I wonder if Holly had been thin, pretty, and hetero if she might have won more fans over with her reasonable degree of success during the first half of her head coaching tenure and then been less demonized in her second-phase failure.

Holly,, Is that you?

 

[lvocd]

I am not forgetting that detail at all. Unquestionably, the players that Holly inherited had internalized many qualities of Pat's system. I have said before as well, that demise began when the last of Pat's legacy left.

But again in 2012-13 when Holly won coach of the year, no one could have known what would transpire in the future. Holly did a job well enough to earn the benefit of the doubt in those first three seasons but numerous fans continued to proclaim that she was totally incompetent with, at that point, over a 75% win percentage.

It was HOW, and to which teams, her teams lost in those first three years that convinced me that she was incompetent. I admit that I was disappointed that she was hired in the first place and so was never lulled into thinking she had all the skin lls necessary to keep the program relevant. When I’d get into discussions about her over on The SUmmiTT, I’d always end up saying that “I’d love nothing more than to be wrong about Holly, but I really don’t think I am.” Sadly, I was right.

There were always persistent rumors that players trampled all over Holly in practices, and it certainly showed in games. When players have no respect for the coach it is 100 percent the coach’s fault, and it’s 100 percent the coach’s responsibility to earn it and then keep it. Holly’s personality is that of a follower, not a leader, and particularly strong-willed players just roll their eyes and tune them out.

We need a coach with a commanding presence, one who will force our players out of the habit of tuning out their staff.

 

[madtownvol]

Holly,, Is that you?

Really, you're channeling Sisaq now?

Don't you have a phone to be sitting by. I am sure Phil's call is coming any time now.

 

[volnationnj]

It's ringing now...
Nevermind
wrong number

 

[T_Vol376]

Really?
Don't you have a phone to be sitting by. I am sure that call is coming any time now.

And he can be there tomorrow! (That’s if they call tonight. If they call tomorrow he can be there day after tomorrow, and so on.)

 

[Coach Jumper]

Really, you're channeling Sisaq now?

Don't you have a phone to be sitting by. I am sure Phil's call is coming any time now.

did you read what you wrote?
I can selective write my bio and make it look how I want it to look
The first three years are with Pat's players
year five on is all that counts for me
And yes, I can be there tomorrow is my mantra and I sing it
more importantly, I am ready for it
and even more importantly, I am working for it
(not just here on VN)

 

[Creekdog]

I am not forgetting that detail at all. Unquestionably, the players that Holly inherited had internalized many qualities of Pat's system. I have said before as well, that Holly's demise began when the last of Pat's player legacy left.

But again in 2012-13 when Holly won coach of the year, no one could have known what would transpire in the future. Holly did a job well enough to earn the benefit of the doubt in those first three seasons. Yet, numerous fans continued to proclaim that she was totally incompetent when, at that point, she had over a 75% win percentage, SEC titles, and 2 elite 8 and a sweet 16 appearances.

I don't even understand your point about Jolly. What does that change about the reasons many fans want her to be the next LV coach?

I agree with all that but think even then her on and off court demeanor, inability to communicate and articulate well at press conferences and other personal idiosyncrasies made her an easy target for those who wanted to demean her. To be honest I've thrown a few barbs her way, so not preaching here.

 

[madtownvol]

It was HOW, and to which teams, her teams lost in those first three years that convinced me that she was incompetent. I admit that I was disappointed that she was hired in the first place and so was never lulled into thinking she had all the skin lls necessary to keep the program relevant. When I’d get into discussions about her over on The SUmmiTT, I’d always end up saying that “I’d love nothing more than to be wrong about Holly, but I really don’t think I am.” Sadly, I was right.

There were always persistent rumors that players trampled all over Holly in practices, and it certainly showed in games. When players have no respect for the coach it is 100 percent the coach’s fault, and it’s 100 percent the coach’s responsibility to earn it and then keep it. Holly’s personality is that of a follower, not a leader, and particularly strong-willed players just roll their eyes and tune them out.

We need a coach with a commanding presence, one who will force our players out of the habit of tuning out their staff.

Sigh, I am really not debating that point; I am not defending Holly; the issue that motivated my post was a poster wondering why some are so set on demonizing Holly and/or dancing on her metaphoric grave now that she has been fired. I was simply pointing out that Holly has always inspired some deep animosity among
a segment of the fan base, even when things were going pretty well. Her win % in the first 3 seasons was over 80% and the LVs, were at that time, still playing a tough RPI and had wins over Stanford and Oregon in those seasons. They did look bad against ND over that 3 year stretch of the series (a pattern which has held except for the upset win 2 seasons ago). I agree that Holly was not the right choice in the long run for the program but I am sorry, just going on her first 3 years (without the benefit of hindsight), it is hard to justify calling her incompetent and I don't think most any other coach with her first 3 year record would have been so polarizing to the fan base. That is all I am saying.

 

[VolBall09]

did you read what you wrote?
I can selective write my bio and make it look how I want it to look
The first three years are with Pat's players
year five on is all that counts for me
And yes, I can be there tomorrow is my mantra and I sing it
more importantly, I am ready for it
and even more importantly, I am working for it
(not just here on VN)

If they let you near the players in real life we’re in trouble.

 

[madtownvol]

did you read what you wrote?
I can selective write my bio and make it look how I want it to look
The first three years are with Pat's players
year five on is all that counts for me
And yes, I can be there tomorrow is my mantra and I sing it
more importantly, I am ready for it
and even more importantly, I am working for it
(not just here on VN)

Yes, I read what I wrote. It takes a little imagination to get the point. So, imagine evaluating Holly at the end of her first 3 years (without the benefit of hindsight). Yes, she had CPS's players, and as you well know I have written extensively on this board about how that foundation was what enabled Holly initial success.
But, I am saying that her record did not warrant the hostile reaction from some in the fan base at the time.

I used that scenario to illustrate that Holly has divided the fan base from the beginning and that pattern continues in the unusual degree of animosity that some are directing her way now that she has been fired.

Because Holly makes people some folks see "red," they (including you apparently) they just can't process any assessment of Holly's tenure that does not vilify her. I have been in the Holly needs to go camp for the last 2 years but failing as a coach does not make her a plague on humanity.

 

[Willtalk]

I think the demonizing might be a reaction to the entire situation that put Holly in a position that she was not suited for. Then there was also peoples defense of her because of her niceness. I don't know Holly, but sometimes people who give that appearance are not that nice. Their niceness is often self serving in that it creates an atmosphere of justification for not holding nice people to the standards of accountability that we hold not so nice people too.

Likability gets people jobs, and allows them to keep jobs longer. One can act nice and still be self serving. Perhaps if she were really as nice of a persona some believed her to be she would not have put people in the position of firing her, rather she would have resigned. She would have also taken ownership of the teams failures instead of deflecting blame. Did she really think she was essential in the future of Tenn woman's basketball or were her actions just to keep position and salary.

Creating a persona of "nice" certainly works. There are people in this thread criticizing those that question her behavior. If she was not considered some nice old lady no one would even bother being upset about the criticism. I also believe that some of these negative reactions are caused by people beginning to question their original perspective of her as a person. Generally self absorbed individuals are thin skinned with everything being about themselves and their feelings. This makes it easy for the kind hearted to be sucked into protect the poor helpless victim Especially when they are not able to discern between niceness and self serving emotional manipulation. The key is recognizing motivational intent.

 

[madtownvol]

And yes, I can be there tomorrow is my mantra and I sing it
more importantly, I am ready for it
and even more importantly, I am working for it
(not just here on VN)

So, I wonder if you are doing some kind of on-line performance art or if you are actually serious in these posts.

If serious, may be you need some counseling. No D1 school is going to hire a second (or maybe 3rd tier) AAU coach to run their program.

Have you noticed how your name is not popping up on any speculation about who might be the LVs next coach. That is not a coincidence or a mere oversight.

If you really want to coach and impact kids lives, find a junior high or high school that could use a volunteer assessment. Work your way up that hierarchy. If you are as good as you say you are, you might become a head coach for a decent high school team in a few years.

You could probably use the same strategy for a D3 school.

 

[Lucy]

Hi Lucy, Welcome to Volnation! Someone recently welcomed me, so I’ll welcome you.

Thank you so much! I’m enjoying the discussions. What is the old proverb about “may you live in interesting times”. Well, I guess as Lady Vol fans we are there now!

 

[Lucy]

Oops. Our manners are slipping. Welcome to you and to Lucy.

Thanks so much!

 

[creekdipper]

I think the demonizing might be a reaction to the entire situation that put Holly in a position that she was not suited for. Then there was also peoples defense of her because of her niceness. I don't know Holly, but sometimes people who give that appearance are not that nice. Their niceness is often self serving in that it creates an atmosphere of justification for not holding nice people to the standards of accountability that we hold not so nice people too.

Likability gets people jobs, and allows them to keep jobs longer. One can act nice and still be self serving. Perhaps if she were really as nice of a persona some believed her to be she would not have put people in the position of firing her, rather she would have resigned. She would have also taken ownership of the teams failures instead of deflecting blame. Did she really think she was essential in the future of Tenn woman's basketball or were her actions just to keep position and salary.

Creating a persona of "nice" certainly works. There are people in this thread criticizing those that question her behavior. If she was not considered some nice old lady no one would even bother being upset about the criticism. I also believe that some of these negative reactions are caused by people beginning to question their original perspective of her as a person. Generally self absorbed individuals are thin skinned with everything being about themselves and their feelings. This makes it easy for the kind hearted to be sucked into protect the poor helpless victim Especially when they are not able to discern between niceness and self serving emotional manipulation. The key is recognizing motivational intent.

I feel like I need a Snickers after reading that.

 

[teacherdean]

Wait. The two things that stuck out to me were that she wanted another year to make ROSTER changes?! Like who? That’s what coaching is for, you work with what you have, the different personalities and make things work/happen. You don’t just throw em to the curb.

And She hasn’t spoken to anyone from the team? ed Smh
Grown adult woman. I’m surprised she hasn’t reached out to her team / players.

At this point I am not surprised that Holly has not talked, or the fact that she does not plan on remaining in coaching. No one can really imagine how much being terminated from the only head coaching job she ever wanted, hurt Holly. In the end, Holly really thought she could have righted the ship, evidence proved that even with top ten talent, she did have what is required to bring the Lady Vol program back to one of the top women's basketball teams. It just was not in the cards.

 

[volbeast33]

Holly brought that on herself in my opinion

How? By being a bad coach?

 

[Coach Jumper]

So, I wonder if you simply doing some kind of on-line performance art or if you are actually serious in these posts?

,,,

You had me there

people tend to forget "why" they know, they only remember "that" they know you
I am in sight of the admin, volnation, the media, my peers, the AD
at some point I will be asked to prove myself
I don't know how, or when
but I am much more than a 2nd 3rd tier AAU coach

I see talent I KNOW I can develop to a much higher degree than they are playing at
I know in the eyes of nearly everyone here that they feel I am way above my pay grade

my only thought is, who set that pay grade scale anyway?

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Thank you so much! I’m enjoying the discussions. What is the old proverb about “may you live in interesting times”. Well, I guess as Lady Vol fans we are there now!

Absolutely! GO ALL VOLS!!!

 

[orangealways]

If they let you near the players in real life we’re in trouble.

Y’all need to stop!!! Hahaha

 

[orangealways]

You had me there

people tend to forget "why" they know, they only remember "that" they know you
I am in sight of the admin, volnation, the media, my peers, the AD
at some point I will be asked to prove myself
I don't know how, or when
but I am much more than a 2nd 3rd tier AAU coach

I see talent I KNOW I can develop to a much higher degree than they are playing at
I know in the eyes of nearly everyone here that they feel I am way above my pay grade

my only thought is, who set that pay grade scale anyway?

Huh????
The CJ press conferences will be worse than the chw ones !!

 

[creekdipper]

Huh????
The CJ press conferences will be worse than the chw ones !!

Media: "Your guards turned the ball over 19 times. How will you handle Notre Dame's full-court pressure on Thursday?"

Coach J: "I can fix that tomorrow."