Bleed-Orange
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History lesson-Fulmer hires
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DC_Vol
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tvolsfan
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Lovie Smith was a Phil hire. Went onto coach in a Super Bowl. Reputation has taken a hit from Tampa Bay and Illinois the past 4 years. Over 10 years with the Bears he had 7 winning seasons, only really bad season was first at 5 - 11. Won 10 games 4 times. Coached in the Super Bowl as a Defensive Coordinator as well for the Rams - dropped the points allowed per game for that squad from 29 points per game to 17 in a single season.
Hired current Jacksonville head coach Doug Marrone, who was on staff for one year. I'm sure there are other assistants. Those guys move around a lot.
Promoted Chavis to DC in 1995. Promoted Cutcliffe to OC in 1993.
Hired current Jacksonville head coach Doug Marrone, who was on staff for one year. I'm sure there are other assistants. Those guys move around a lot.
Promoted Chavis to DC in 1995. Promoted Cutcliffe to OC in 1993.
Rasputin_Vol
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Rasputin_Vol
"Slava Ukraina"
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vol-un-tear
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Fullfillmer
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Ohio Vol
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In sixteen years as a head coach of a nationally-contending SEC program, Fulmer hired exactly three assistants who would later become head coaches elsewhere. Those three coaches were on staff at UT for a combined four years.
Lovie Smith - defensive backs coach, 1993 and 1994. Became Chicago Bears head coach in 2004.
Doug Marrone - TE/OT coach, 2001. Became Syracuse head coach in 2009.
Dave Clawson - offensive coordinator, 2008. I'd argue that this doesn't even count, since he'd spent the previous nine years as a head coach between Fordham and Richmond as it was.
For a major program to have such a weak record of generating future head coaches is appalling, and it goes a long way toward explaining why the program began to crumble after 2001. In the case of programs like Penn State, they had numerous assistants who were there for a long time because they were exceptional and were well-compensated. In the case of UT, there were numerous assistants who were there for a long time who were truly awful and yet were not replaced.
UT suffered through eight years of Jimmy Ray Stephens and Greg Adkins coaching the offensive line. In the eight years that those two would have coached to develop, and despite having four- and five-star OL prospects coming in every single year, UT had exactly three OL who was drafted - Fred Weary (3rd round), Scott Wells (7th), Arron Sears (2nd).
Look at someone like Jacques McClendon: played in the All-American Bowl, top overall prospect in the state, played in 49 games at UT, and was a 4th-round pick who ended up starting five games in his NFL career.
Michael Munoz was by far the best OL prospect in the country, a five-star prospect with future NFL legend written all over him. He ended up undrafted.
There were four different five-star OLs recruited during that time: Munoz, Jason Respert, Sean Young, and Brandon Jefferies. They combined to player 0 NFL games.
Four-star guys included Sears, McClendon, and Chris Scott, but also Josh McNeil, Cody Douglas, Darris Sawtelle, Albert Toeiana, Rob Smith, and Eric Young.
Lovie Smith - defensive backs coach, 1993 and 1994. Became Chicago Bears head coach in 2004.
Doug Marrone - TE/OT coach, 2001. Became Syracuse head coach in 2009.
Dave Clawson - offensive coordinator, 2008. I'd argue that this doesn't even count, since he'd spent the previous nine years as a head coach between Fordham and Richmond as it was.
For a major program to have such a weak record of generating future head coaches is appalling, and it goes a long way toward explaining why the program began to crumble after 2001. In the case of programs like Penn State, they had numerous assistants who were there for a long time because they were exceptional and were well-compensated. In the case of UT, there were numerous assistants who were there for a long time who were truly awful and yet were not replaced.
UT suffered through eight years of Jimmy Ray Stephens and Greg Adkins coaching the offensive line. In the eight years that those two would have coached to develop, and despite having four- and five-star OL prospects coming in every single year, UT had exactly three OL who was drafted - Fred Weary (3rd round), Scott Wells (7th), Arron Sears (2nd).
Look at someone like Jacques McClendon: played in the All-American Bowl, top overall prospect in the state, played in 49 games at UT, and was a 4th-round pick who ended up starting five games in his NFL career.
Michael Munoz was by far the best OL prospect in the country, a five-star prospect with future NFL legend written all over him. He ended up undrafted.
There were four different five-star OLs recruited during that time: Munoz, Jason Respert, Sean Young, and Brandon Jefferies. They combined to player 0 NFL games.
Four-star guys included Sears, McClendon, and Chris Scott, but also Josh McNeil, Cody Douglas, Darris Sawtelle, Albert Toeiana, Rob Smith, and Eric Young.
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thehill98
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I understand your view on the assistants, however remember coaching has changed drastically over the last 10 years. He had the same defensive coordinator his whole career and only 3 offensive ones, with Clawson only half of a season. Not saying there arent plenty of criticisms to be made, but Fulmer was very loyal and I think many on his staff stayed because of that. Also the fact that head coaches in general now have an incredibly short life span now days, so there are many more head coaching jobs that open up annually, thus creating more opportunities.
Ohio Vol
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Just for comparison, Florida under Spurrier when overlapping with Fulmer (1993-2001) produced:
* Bob Pruett
* Bob Stoops
* Ron Zook
* Carl Franks
* Charlie Strong
That's not including Rod Broadway, who became a 1-AA head coach; Jim Bates, who was an interim NFL coach; or Buddy Teevens, who'd been a head coach previously and would become one again.
Under Ron Zook, you can add:
* Larry Fedora
* Mike Locksley
* John Thompson
Then under Urban Meyer through the end with Fulmer (2008), add:
* Dan Mullen
* Steve Addazio
* Doc Holliday
Also, Dan McCarney was hired by Meyer and later became a head coach, but he'd also been one previously.
So in the sixteen years that Fulmer produced three assistants with a combined four years of service who later became head coaches, Florida produced 11, plus 4 more with other circumstances.
I think that just might be part of the problem.
DiderotsGhost
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As Ohio Vol has pointed out, Fulmer's track record of hiring assistants was pretty terrible. It's one reason why I've been skeptical of Fulmer as AD. Virtually every good "hire" during the Fulmer years was actually a coach initially hired by Johnny Majors. In contrast, Johnny Majors had an insanely good track record of hiring staff coaches; arguably one of the best in college football history.
In this sense, the 1998 national championship should still be partly credited to Majors as almost all the top assistants that were on staff at that time were hired by Majors. Phil was a better recruiter and better at bringing people together, but just not very good at hiring / firing. I've always thought this was one of the big reasons why we saw a decline in the latter half of the Fulmer Era. As Phil had to replace Majors' hires, the program seemed to start struggling; the only exception being the two years we brought David Cutcliffe back before he accepted the Duke job.
I don't want to sound negative. In reality, Fulmer was the only realistic option to get rid of Currie/Haslam. But I'm also not going to become naively optimistic here. Fulmer hasn't been the best judge of coaches in the past. Hopefully, he makes a great hire, but in the back of my head, I'm still worried he makes an uninspiring Dave Doeren type hire.
In this sense, the 1998 national championship should still be partly credited to Majors as almost all the top assistants that were on staff at that time were hired by Majors. Phil was a better recruiter and better at bringing people together, but just not very good at hiring / firing. I've always thought this was one of the big reasons why we saw a decline in the latter half of the Fulmer Era. As Phil had to replace Majors' hires, the program seemed to start struggling; the only exception being the two years we brought David Cutcliffe back before he accepted the Duke job.
I don't want to sound negative. In reality, Fulmer was the only realistic option to get rid of Currie/Haslam. But I'm also not going to become naively optimistic here. Fulmer hasn't been the best judge of coaches in the past. Hopefully, he makes a great hire, but in the back of my head, I'm still worried he makes an uninspiring Dave Doeren type hire.
Thunder Good-Oil
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thehill98
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Not totally disagreeing with you, but if you were a head coach would you want assistants that left every couple of years or ones that stayed. Im sure Spurrier wouldve kept Bob Stoops forever if he could have. Chief had said previously he was contacted about jobs but liked being a coordinator and I believe didnt like recruiting as much. But if had left in 98, Phil may have had to hire 4 or 5 more, not to mention other assistants that wouldve perhaps went along with some of them. I guess I think it is a piece of the picture but maybe as not as big some think. I truly belief the worst loss of an assistant he ever had was Rodney Garner. Also, hes a good example of a long time assistant, hugely successful, but not a head coach. As I said before, he only gave 4 coordinators in 16 years, and 2 of those were head coaches, so that is 50%
Thunder Good-Oil
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For some odd reason I have more confidence in Fulmer hiring the TN head coach than I did in his ability to hire assistant coaches. Probably because he's part of the exclusive club of coaches with Nattys. Urban, Saban, Jimbo, and Dabo are the only members that are still coaching in D-1.
The candidates for a D-1 HC have much more well known backgrounds. An assistant's résumé isn't as easy to evaluate.
The candidates for a D-1 HC have much more well known backgrounds. An assistant's résumé isn't as easy to evaluate.
Thunder Good-Oil
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VolArmy74
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I want Mike Leach badly just on the fact that he's able to produce coaches as much as his is known for turning programs around from bad situations.
It killed us to have such a long time coach who produced no coaches of note during his entire tenure. No VFL coming home.
General Neyland coached a few more years than Phil and produced scores of coaches. John Barnhill was 32-5-2 here with multiple top 5 finishes. He went to Arkansas and his career was cut short by MS but he continued on as AD. One of Arkansas' major sports complexes is named after him.
Bobby Dodd won huge at Georgia Tech, he's their schools legend. Their stadium is named after him. That I know of, Neyland is the only coach to have a stadium named after him and to have produced a coach that went on to get the same accolades.
Neyland had a huge influence on Majors. He recruited Johnny during his final year as a head coach. Johnny credits him now as being his primary influence in coaching.
Murray Warmath was HC at Miss State and Minnesota and won the National title in 1960 and two Big Ten titles.
Bob Woodruff was a head coach at Florida and Baylor. 12 years total as a HC and went 72-58-8
Bowden Wyatt won conference titles at Wyoming and came here and won an SEC title and is in the CFB HoF as a player and coach.
So Neyland produced HCs that won multiple National titles, multiple conference titles and multiple Hall of Famers.
Phil produced.......yeah.
It killed us to have such a long time coach who produced no coaches of note during his entire tenure. No VFL coming home.
General Neyland coached a few more years than Phil and produced scores of coaches. John Barnhill was 32-5-2 here with multiple top 5 finishes. He went to Arkansas and his career was cut short by MS but he continued on as AD. One of Arkansas' major sports complexes is named after him.
Bobby Dodd won huge at Georgia Tech, he's their schools legend. Their stadium is named after him. That I know of, Neyland is the only coach to have a stadium named after him and to have produced a coach that went on to get the same accolades.
Neyland had a huge influence on Majors. He recruited Johnny during his final year as a head coach. Johnny credits him now as being his primary influence in coaching.
Murray Warmath was HC at Miss State and Minnesota and won the National title in 1960 and two Big Ten titles.
Bob Woodruff was a head coach at Florida and Baylor. 12 years total as a HC and went 72-58-8
Bowden Wyatt won conference titles at Wyoming and came here and won an SEC title and is in the CFB HoF as a player and coach.
So Neyland produced HCs that won multiple National titles, multiple conference titles and multiple Hall of Famers.
Phil produced.......yeah.
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