Hindsight is 20/20

[lonelawyer]

I realize that hindsight is 20/20, but looking back, I really have a hard time believing that Butch was the best we could do in 2012.

First, he had never built or rebuilt a program. He followed Brian Kelly at two stops and had done nothing more than keep those programs from dropping in the toilet.

Second, his offensive system was not new, innovative, or overwhelmingly successful at any location. It is, sort of, Brian Kelly's system without the aggression or risk taking. In fact, UC fans were critical of his risk aversion quickly after he took over.

Third, the clichés that we make fun of now, belie his personality. He is uncomfortable in his own skin. He is unsure of his abilities and works hard to not say or do anything that reveals his lack of confidence or talent. That had to be readily apparent to anyone interviewing him.

What am I missing?

 

[butchna]

I realize that hindsight is 20/20, but looking back, I really have a hard time believing that Butch was the best we could do in 2012.

First, he had never built or rebuilt a program. He followed Brian Kelly at two stops and had done nothing more than keep those programs from dropping in the toilet.

Second, his offensive system was not new, innovative, or overwhelmingly successful at any location. It is, sort of, Brian Kelly's system without the aggression or risk taking. In fact, UC fans were critical of his risk aversion quickly after he took over.

Third, the clichés that we make fun of now, belie his personality. He is uncomfortable in his own skin. He is unsure of his abilities and works hard to not say or do anything that reveals his lack of confidence or talent. That had to be readily apparent to anyone interviewing him.

What am I missing?

The other candidates.

 

[lonelawyer]

The other candidates.

Maybe. But do you really believe he was the best coach we could actually get at the time?

 

[joevol33]

Maybe. But do you really believe he was the best coach we could actually get at the time?

Didn’t pretty much everyone run away, or was that when we hired Dooley?

 

[Grudenator]

I believe a couple of coaches turned us down due to the roster being garbage. I can promise you Butch wasn’t the first option.

 

[lonelawyer]

I believe a couple of coaches turned us down due to the roster being garbage. I can promise you Butch wasn’t the first option.

I know that Strong cheated on us on the plane coming to sign the contract. (Maybe a slight exaggeration.) I know Gundy used us to get T Boone to write a bigger check. But surely, there were other choices that made more sense than Butch.

 

[alaVOL]

I didn't want Strong and Butch looked liked a good alternative at the time to me. But that wasn't 20/20.
Let me adjust, neither Strong nor Butch will be good hires. Continue to search please!

 

[utvolpj]

2013 hires and records vs Butch in comparison

 

[butchna]

Maybe. But do you really believe he was the best coach we could actually get at the time?

My Illini fan nephew suggested Taggart at the time. Fanbase would have ripped Hart apart. Hearing same absolutes now about certain candidates. We were shot down by Strong,Gundy and Fedora. Couldn't get interviews with many others. Hart was trying not to Hamilton it and end up hiring another Dooley...i.e. small conference coach with an overall losing record. Cincy was a ranked bowl team under Butch. "Best" we could GET? No. Best we would accept.

 

[lonelawyer]

My Illini fan nephew suggested Taggart at the time. Fanbase would have ripped Hart apart. Hearing same absolutes now about certain candidates. We were shot down by Strong,Gundy and Fedora. Couldn't get interviews with many others. Hart was trying not to Hamilton it and end up hiring another Dooley...i.e. small conference coach with an overall losing record. Cincy was a ranked bowl team under Butch. "Best" we could GET? No. Best we would accept.

The media might have had a cow, but I wish we had hired James Franklin immediately after the horn sounded.

 

[alaVOL]

The media might have had a cow, but I wish we had hired James Franklin immediately after the horn sounded.

I thought Franklin was very good, but he was at Vandy and we Vols can't have somebody from Vandy... Oh wait, Fulmer was an assistance at Vandy wasn't he?

 

[OrangeSoddyDaisy]

I realize that hindsight is 20/20, but looking back, I really have a hard time believing that Butch was the best we could do in 2012.

First, he had never built or rebuilt a program. He followed Brian Kelly at two stops and had done nothing more than keep those programs from dropping in the toilet.

Second, his offensive system was not new, innovative, or overwhelmingly successful at any location. It is, sort of, Brian Kelly's system without the aggression or risk taking. In fact, UC fans were critical of his risk aversion quickly after he took over.

Third, the clichés that we make fun of now, belie his personality. He is uncomfortable in his own skin. He is unsure of his abilities and works hard to not say or do anything that reveals his lack of confidence or talent. That had to be readily apparent to anyone interviewing him.

What am I missing?

You are missing the fact that we offered everybody under the Sun, EVERYBODY, and they passed. Butch was the fifth coach that administration admitted to offering a job...was probably more like 12 but we'll never know. Don't think the same thing isn't happening right now!

 

[UneducatedGuess]

Things to keep in mind about the AD when Butch was hired

1. We had almost no reserves in AD
2. We were borderline ineligible in football due to APR
3. We had mediocre rated recruiting classes
4. Butch was our third choice

Candidates know what they are walking into. Tennessee was a four-year leash.

Butch was on a trajectory to be here for a while. Last year he blew any chance to build equity by losing the East in incredible fashion.

This year sealed his fate and much of it is due to his decision on the OC he hired. He had Helfrich in the bag but for whatever reason punted.

 

[lonelawyer]

Things to keep in mind about the AD when Butch was hired

1. We had almost no reserves in AD
2. We were borderline ineligible in football due to APR
3. We had mediocre rated recruiting classes
4. Butch was our third choice

Candidates know what they are walking into. Tennessee was a four-year leash.

Butch was on a trajectory to be here for a while. Last year he blew any chance to build equity by losing the East in incredible fashion.

This year sealed his fate and much of it is due to his decision on the OC he hired. He had Helfrich in the bag but for whatever reason punted.

I think it goes back to his natural insecurity and risk aversion.

 

[AM64]

In hindsight Dooley beat Butch; it's just about that simple. Hart was a poor excuse for an AD when it came to judging coaches and how to hire them.

I'll still go with the "takes one to know one" taunt and say it takes a coach to really know another, and Currie is no coach but he'll be making the decision after weighing all the input.

I'm guessing in the future we'll be saying we got the wrong AD ... again.

 

[D-rock]

yawn / end thread

 

[Iam4utalways]

Butch is 10-24 in one score games. I don't know his record in games decided by 21 or more points, just guessing it's no very good either.

This is all about losses. How they happened, who they happened to, and when they happened.

We could over look all the "Butchisms" if we could cherry pick two losses a year and make them wins.

It's no surprise that he is a great salesman. He is able to hilight the positive while downplaying the negative.

What I like most about Butch was the way he didn't back down from expectations this year.

I didn't think it was possible for a coach to be too conservative for me. Maybe if he didn't run a high octane offense super conservative, rather than a pro style power run game type offense conservative.

I would like to see him squeak out 3 more wins.

Beat some tigers.

 

[hexnut]

You cant have administrative people running the football program. You need some one who has been a successful coach. We are screwed for a long while. And Butch isn't getting three more wins.

 

[OrangeSoddyDaisy]

Things to keep in mind about the AD when Butch was hired

1. We had almost no reserves in AD
2. We were borderline ineligible in football due to APR
3. We had mediocre rated recruiting classes
4. Butch was our third choice

Candidates know what they are walking into. Tennessee was a four-year leash.

Butch was on a trajectory to be here for a while. Last year he blew any chance to build equity by losing the East in incredible fashion.

This year sealed his fate and much of it is due to his decision on the OC he hired. He had Helfrich in the bag but for whatever reason punted.

Not trying to argue over nothing, but Butch was our fifth choice. Don't want us to seem better than we are.

 

[njvols]

My Illini fan nephew suggested Taggart at the time. Fanbase would have ripped Hart apart. Hearing same absolutes now about certain candidates. We were shot down by Strong,Gundy and Fedora. Couldn't get interviews with many others. Hart was trying not to Hamilton it and end up hiring another Dooley...i.e. small conference coach with an overall losing record. Cincy was a ranked bowl team under Butch. "Best" we could GET? No. Best we would accept.

The thing I worry about the most is that we become Nebraska, though they've probably had more success than us in past 10 years. I think folks look at Nebraska and say "how can I fix that", where talented recruiting base is so far from Lincoln. I don't think we're that bad...facilities, growing home base population, and talent in close by states, but we're clearly not completely out of our disfunctional decade.

 

[butchna]

I thought Franklin was very good, but he was at Vandy and we Vols can't have somebody from Vandy... Oh wait, Fulmer was an assistance at Vandy wasn't he?

Few years removed. And a grad assistant...not the architect of a fresh trashing.

 

[dduncan4163]

Things to keep in mind about the AD when Butch was hired

1. We had almost no reserves in AD
2. We were borderline ineligible in football due to APR
3. We had mediocre rated recruiting classes
4. Butch was our third choice

Candidates know what they are walking into. Tennessee was a four-year leash.

Butch was on a trajectory to be here for a while. Last year he blew any chance to build equity by losing the East in incredible fashion.

This year sealed his fate and much of it is due to his decision on the OC he hired. He had Helfrich in the bag but for whatever reason punted.

You nailed it

 

[AM64]

You cant have administrative people running the football program. You need some one who has been a successful coach. We are screwed for a long while. And Butch isn't getting three more wins.

Yep.

Butch is a program administrator; he will resonate with a bean counter AD. Hart hired a fellow bean counter/marketing guy - not a coach.

You catch a good coach with a good coach because he knows the traits and characteristics. We keep hiring the wrong ADs and expecting different results. I'm not sure which is more insane - the expecting different results part or failing to simply look back at some really good ADs and figure it out. There is a progression, and it's not Butch's progression.

 

[Iam4utalways]

The thing I worry about the most is that we become Nebraska, though they've probably had more success than us in past 10 years. I think folks look at Nebraska and say "how can I fix that", where talented recruiting base is so far from Lincoln. I don't think we're that bad...facilities, growing home base population, and talent in close by states, but we're clearly not completely out of our disfunctional decade.

I think Butch proved we can get out of this hole. With all the losses we were still getting top recruits.

 

[UT-Rex]

Hindsight is 20/20

I realize that hindsight is 20/20, but looking back, I really have a hard time believing that Butch was the best we could do in 2012.

First, he had never built or rebuilt a program. He followed Brian Kelly at two stops and had done nothing more than keep those programs from dropping in the toilet.

Second, his offensive system was not new, innovative, or overwhelmingly successful at any location. It is, sort of, Brian Kelly's system without the aggression or risk taking. In fact, UC fans were critical of his risk aversion quickly after he took over.

Third, the clichés that we make fun of now, belie his personality. He is uncomfortable in his own skin. He is unsure of his abilities and works hard to not say or do anything that reveals his lack of confidence or talent. That had to be readily apparent to anyone interviewing him.

What am I missing?

Mr. John Currie, thanks for asking VN. It's good that you're working with us on this important decision, since you've never hired a football coach before. It's good that we all work on this together.