Heupel Deserves Better Than This

spyfish007

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Yes. Defensive talent will never be a non-factor.
Games I've seen make me question that position. I think of Manning and Farve doing a shootout when they were just hitting long bombs after long bombs. It did not matter who was out there on defense. This is just one example. I think it takes special, rare defenses with 11 elites to over take elite offenses. It can't be a marginally better defense saying 6 or 7 elites. I think of Seahawks beating Broncos in the Super Bowl.
 

Chad F

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If Heupel is worth a crap, he is only thinking about what needs to be done to get this team competitive and on the track to being championship caliber.
 
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Chippo

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He spent a lot of time at OU, and saw a ton of stuff go down there. He witnessed Stoops’ good and bad handling of situations. Heupel is smart, and will do a good job navigating through trouble.
True, he probably never gave thought to what he would do with a player abusing a kitty...
Which player abused a 🐈??
 

Rooster1

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3 of those 4 things were out there when he took the job. He's a big boy who signed up for a big boy job at a big boy program and getting big boy dollars. He's not feeling bad for himself, and we shouldn't either. He knew what he signed up for and it all comes w/ the territory of being a coach.
this
 

sjt18

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New coach knows this is a short term gig.
He will leave messes for the next New Coach.
Since HCPF was fired, the four HCs have averaged a 3 year term .The tenure of New Coach will not move this average very much.
I doubt that's true. I strongly suspect that each new coach as expected to be successful.

That cycle will continue necessarily until a coach does produce success and create momentum on the field and in recruiting that carries him past year 3. Some of us predicted this before Fulmer was fired. I believe he was rightly fired. But no one should have had any illusions about how long UT might spend on the coaching carousel.... especially if there were neither the will or opportunity to pursue a "big name", instant fix type of coach.
 

DERELICK_MY_VOLS

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Hey, we have struggled to beat uninspiring teams with losing records on our schedule (Georgia State, BYU, South Carolina, Vandy, Missouri, UK, Arkansas, Miss State, etc.) so I would take someone that can be consistent at the moment.
He has CONSISTENTLY had high powered offenses. When you are at an SEC school that plays a fun brand of football...high scoring offenses vs getting your brains beat in by 30pts recruiting becomes easier.
 

BigOrangeTrain

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Nope. Three years is enough to know whether a coach can coach. Coaches don't become great coaches in 5 years if they aren't already very good coaches in 1 year.

Some of us didn't buy Jones. Some did. Some wanted to so badly that they did. But ultimately the doubts he created in year 1 proved to be his undoing in year 5. The guy didn't have the coaching talent to coach at the SEC level. Same thing with Dooley and Pruitt. Both had the talent to win at least one more game in their first year. Neither did. All three of these coaches demonstrated who they were in year 1. In fact, a "weak" roster may reveal more about a coach's strengths and weaknesses than a strong roster.

Heupel has some disadvantages. Every leader in every situation does. He also has talent to work with and "manage". He couldn't have inherited a more favorable schedule. He has some discipline challenges and a GRAND opportunity to re-establish discipline within the program that is both just and sustainable.

He also benefits from some pretty low expectations. You have people saying 6 wins even against this schedule would be an overachievement.

I like him. I like his personality. I like his reputation for having high character and ability. But you simply cannot give a guy more than 3 or 4 years without him "proving" something. Fans need to see it but most importantly recruits need to see it.
And there it is. The extremely flawed logic that some still want to hang onto.
 

sjt18

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And there it is. The extremely flawed logic that some still want to hang onto.
OK. I'll bite. Try actually PROVING your point.

What coach has started out and shown no signs of being a championship caliber coach for the first 3 years... has been kept for years after that... and has become a championship caliber coach?

Prove that players keep listening to coaches who don't make some sort of significant mark in the first 3 years... it is hard enough to get them to listen when a guy does better than that.

I've only seen one guy who started that slow and went on to win any sort of championship- Beamer and that was a different era of football and unique situation.
 

sjt18

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I don’t see that defensive talent especially with two of the best in the transfer portal and Bryce Thompson leaving for the draft.
Baron appears to be very talented. Eason appears to be getting better.

There are definitely holes on D. But that's where coaching comes in. Most teams are not Bama. Most teams are filling holes left by departing players.

I don't expect the D to be great. I think they'll allow points. I would like to see them create big plays though as a "sign of things to come".
 

GAVol

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OK. I'll bite. Try actually PROVING your point.

What coach has started out and shown no signs of being a championship caliber coach for the first 3 years... has been kept for years after that... and has become a championship caliber coach?

Prove that players keep listening to coaches who don't make some sort of significant mark in the first 3 years... it is hard enough to get them to listen when a guy does better than that.

I've only seen one guy who started that slow and went on to win any sort of championship- Beamer and that was a different era of football and unique situation.
Dabo Swinney wasn't exactly looking like a dynasty builder after year 3.
 

BigOrangeTrain

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OK. I'll bite. Try actually PROVING your point.

What coach has started out and shown no signs of being a championship caliber coach for the first 3 years... has been kept for years after that... and has become a championship caliber coach?

Prove that players keep listening to coaches who don't make some sort of significant mark in the first 3 years... it is hard enough to get them to listen when a guy does better than that.

I've only seen one guy who started that slow and went on to win any sort of championship- Beamer and that was a different era of football and unique situation.
It’s as simple as this. The situation that JH came into is not the same as what every other HC walks into. What he faces right now is absolutely unprecedented in our football history.

A championship caliber coach? For crying out loud man are you insane? Are you one of these deluded fans that thinks oh we are TN and we should expect championships?

If all new HC jobs were equal in difficulty, then your point would stand. They aren’t. So you can stammer on all you want about oh if he isn’t any good by year 3 then he has to go. But it’s a dumb way to think.
 

DERELICK_MY_VOLS

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Baron appears to be very talented. Eason appears to be getting better.

There are definitely holes on D. But that's where coaching comes in. Most teams are not Bama. Most teams are filling holes left by departing players.

I don't expect the D to be great. I think they'll allow points. I would like to see them create big plays though as a "sign of things to come".
For the next season or so our best defense is going to be our offense. Really need one of these QB’s to man up and be the leader of this time.
 

BeardedVol

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Dabo Swinney wasn't exactly looking like a dynasty builder after year 3.
Please...how many times does it have to be typed out?
Dabo's first three seasons as HC (not interim):
9-5 (won division)
6-7
10-4 (won conference)

We'd all be pissing our pants with glee if any of the last 5 hires, including Heupel, pulled off that sort of record.
 
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GAVol

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Please...how many times does it have to be typed out?
Dabo's first three seasons as HC (not interim):
9-5 (won division)
6-7
10-4 (won conference)

We'd all be pissing our pants with glee if any of the last 5 hires, including Heupel, pulled off that sort of record.
I agree. We’d kill for that right now. My point though is things weren’t looking great after that 7 loss season in year 3 or 2.5 or whatever. Even after the 3rd full year where he lost 4 games, I don’t think anybody thought a perennial national title contender was hatching.
 

BeardedVol

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I agree. We’d kill for that right now. My point though is things weren’t looking great after that 7 loss season in year 3 or 2.5 or whatever. Even after the 3rd full year where he lost 4 games, I don’t think anybody thought a perennial national title contender was hatching.
Dabo is a terrible example for a coach "not showing that he had it together by year three"; he won his conference in year three, after winning the division in his first season.

The bar isn't even that high for Heupel, as no one is relisticlly expecting UT to challenge for the SEC by year three.
 

GAVol

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Dabo is a terrible example for a coach "not showing that he had it together by year three"; he won his conference in year three, after winning the division in his first season.

The bar isn't even that high for Heupel, as no one is relisticlly expecting UT to challenge for the SEC by year three.
Dabo had a weird start. He literally went from “Maybe this will work out” to “What the heck were they thinking?” to homerun hire.
 

sjt18

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For the next season or so our best defense is going to be our offense. Really need one of these QB’s to man up and be the leader of this time.
Agree. At the same time, a great DC can take a few stars and build a decent unit around them. I'm still amazed at what Monte did with that 2009 D. He had some guys play LB who didn't get PT before or after being needed that year.

I'm not saying Banks is anywhere close to that. But if he can produce a "big play" D that gets turnovers and sacks... I can have patience over the rest of it.
 

sjt18

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It’s as simple as this. The situation that JH came into is not the same as what every other HC walks into. What he faces right now is absolutely unprecedented in our football history.
All true... and meaningless with regard to how much time UT can afford to give him. If he doesn't do something to prove himself a great coach within the first 3 years then recruits won't listen... and they do not CARE what his situation was.

There are a number of things that could establish him. Getting a couple or 3 wins against UT's "big" SEC opponents in the first 3 years would definitely qualify. Re-establishing dominance over UK, Vandy, Mizzou, and USCe would be a big step that could be sold to recruits. There are a number of ways he can earn credibility.

The thing he cannot do is have a losing season or appear to be treading water or backsliding.

In short... he has to have something to "sell" that's tangible.

A championship caliber coach? For crying out loud man are you insane? Are you one of these deluded fans that thinks oh we are TN and we should expect championships?
Are you one of the deluded fans that think championships are won by luck? High expectations are a foundation for great results. That's pretty much universal and nowhere more true than in a college football program. If the fans accept a low target... the program will undoubtedly hit is consistently.

If all new HC jobs were equal in difficulty, then your point would stand. They aren’t. So you can stammer on all you want about oh if he isn’t any good by year 3 then he has to go. But it’s a dumb way to think.
No stammering. History across top end college football programs.

But the "dumb" way to think is that "fairness" or starting difficulty have anything to do with it. I'll agree that it isn't "fair" that Heupel walks into a mess and will have to perform at an amazingly high level to survive. That doesn't change the reality of what happens if you keep a mediocre or worse coach past 3 or 4 years. If a guy isn't a good coach then more time won't make him a "better" coach fast enough to make up for the dearth in talent created by his on the field failure.
 

ALStateLineVol

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I don't think it bothers him because he just wants a chance to coach big time collage football jmo.
I will say this, if he can turn this program around with everything going on, then I believe we have found ourselves a coach. Coaches like challenges and the entire staff knew this is what they signed up for. Every coach knew the risk, what was at stake, and accepted the challenge when they signed the offer letter. If they can improve the product on the field, they will make more money if/when they decide to leave or resign. If they fail, they can blame the situation and will probably be given a 'pass' at their next job. Coaches probably look at this as a win/win situation.
Purely my opinion and I could be completely wrong. Either way, I will be a fan and hoping for success as I have the last 15 years.
Go Vols!
 

sjt18

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Dabo Swinney wasn't exactly looking like a dynasty builder after year 3.
In his first 3 seasons, he was 25-16. He had not had a losing regular season. He'd won his division twice and his conference once. I'd take that from a UT HC and see it as a definite sign of great potential for the future.
 

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