Heupel and head coaching decisions

#51
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#51
I hate to think this, but we all saw defensively was less than a high school defense....We played the softest zone a team could play...At critical times a 15 yard cushion...It was absurd.....Tackling angles that had no chance to make the tackle...Receivers catching the ball with no one within 10 yards of him.....What a pitiful defensive effort...
Well you know that effort was clearly NOT a case of Overlooking SC. That's the most Absurd excuse some are proposing.
 
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#52

Sudden Impact

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#52
Unless you know something the rest of us don’t, you’re grossly overplaying your hand.

What I saw is the defense failing so miserably, that the only explanation is mutiny. The results don’t exactly scream “leadership.”
So you are trying to have it both ways. A lack of Leadership at the player level? or Coaching Staff? Which one is it?
Because there a lack of Leadership it must be a mutiny
So the Change in Culture and family did not exist and is a farce.
Players hold players accountable so that may or may not be a problem.
Mutiny is an excuse as well. It is easy to say makes sense to you, but it doesn't wash with me. The Culture thing was just a made up story.
The truth will come out eventually.
I would believe it was a DC Coaching Fail before a Mutiny.
 
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#53

Allvols1996

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#53
So you are trying to have it both ways. A lack of Leadership at the player level? or Coaching Staff? Which one is it?
Because there a lack of Leadership it must be a mutiny
So the Change in Culture and family did not exist and is a farce.
Players hold players accountable so that may or may not be a problem.
Mutiny is an excuse as well. It is easy to say makes sense to you, but it doesn't wash with me. The Culture thing was just a made up story.
The truth will come out eventually.
I have no idea, and neither do you. I’m not advocating Banks should or shouldn’t have been “unavailable.” I’m saying this didn’t happen overnight. You don’t have everyone pushing and pulling the same way and then boom, off the rails.
 
#54

C-south

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#54
Defense better get a lot better really fast because there will be offensive growing pains going forward and I don’t mean the vandy game. The next couple of seasons could be rough if we don’t get A LOT better on defense.
 
#55

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#55
I have no idea, and neither do you. I’m not advocating Banks should or shouldn’t have been “unavailable.” I’m saying this didn’t happen overnight. You don’t have everyone pushing and pulling the same way and then boom, off the rails.
I have never stated I know but what I do believe is as follows:
1) The rest of the story will eventually leak out.
2) Piss poor preparation without Banks in the lineup.
3) Poorly called Game by DC
4) Talent level is not there but should have been enough to stop USCe 3-4 times.
5) Kids are Kids.
6) Loss of Banks probably resulted in 14-21 point swing. He must have done more than what we were told.
7) The Culture built and forming does not add up in a Mutiny Theory.
8) Look at the Portal for an indication of what has happened.
9) There are standards & Rules and violation of those equals Discipline.

Time will tell it is over with, time to wait & see what happens.
Too Much Paralysis of Analysis without any known facts. It may stay that way for a while but somebody will eventually spill the beans.
 
#56

Allvols1996

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#56
I have never stated I know but what I do believe is as follows:
1) The rest of the story will eventually leak out.
2) Piss poor preparation without Banks in the lineup.
3) Poorly called Game by DC
4) Talent level is not there but should have been enough to stop USCe 3-4 times.
5) Kids are Kids.
6) Loss of Banks probably resulted in 14-21 point swing. He must have done more than what we were told.
7) The Culture built and forming does not add up in a Mutiny Theory.
8) Look at the Portal for an indication of what has happened.
9) There are standards & Rules and violation of those equals Discipline.

Time will tell it is over with, time to wait & see what happens.
Too Much Paralysis of Analysis without any known facts. It may stay that way for a while but somebody will eventually spill the beans.
If Banks accounted for that many points, he should be the first pick in the NFL draft.
 
#57

chattavol420

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#57
OP one of the "we should have never hired Heupel chorus" and just wants to prove his point. CJH has taken a program in the crapper that lost 30 or 40 players some of which were the best on the team. He put the team together with bailing wire and duck tape and got a winning first season. Then he took essentially the same group and was ranked #1 for a while this season and has not yet got his type of players here yet. Now some of the dumbkopf fans who didn't like the hire are making cases to run him off. This is the most insane logic we have ever seen and shows why the AD should ignore irrational fans.
Absolutely not. I was one of the few that had Josh Heupel on my short list and was ecstatic when he was hired. And I’m not criticizing him here really. Just saying if he’d have known how the game was going to go would he have made a different decision and asking the question would other head coaches have suspended their defensive leader over an inner (locker room) issue. Honestly, I believe it was a catastrophic mistake.
But nobody is calling for hypo‘s head or anything. He is a spectacular all sensitive mind that has taken a patchwork roster and had us ranked in the top 10 most of the year. But he is still a new head coach and there is certainly a lot more to this game than being a good offensive play caller. I believe he misjudged the effect/impact on continuity that a single player being out could create and belive if he had it to do over again…he might have tried to work out the situation internally without having to suspend anyone. But who knows. It is all purely speculation as to what took place behind closed doors to begin with
 
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#59

sjt18

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#59
No one outside of the program and few within it know what happened.

But a coach who differentiates between his best players and others when it comes to discipline WILL lose the team at some point. He has to be consistent. He HAS shown a lot of indicators that he is objective and consistent. A decision that costs him a game may well end up gaining him many more.
 
#61

grandjason

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#61
Heupel had to make a huge coaching decision on Saturday. It is almost indisputable at this point that a conflict happened involving Jeremy Banks. We could never know whether it was a fail drug test or something else. But he definitely was not arrested. This along with Heuple‘s refusal to elaborate on the issue gives legs to the rumors floating around.

So here’s the question… Does anybody believe a coach like Nick Saban would have suspended his defensive captain and team leader over an internal disruption/dispute that did not involve any legal issues? I’d say absolutely not. I think Saban probably understands how important continuity is and the residual effect of essentially siding with one player over another. Hell…Saban didn’t bench a wr that struck an opposing teams fan on the field despite getting ripped in the media for it.

I don’t believe the Defense came out and decided not to play hard. But we are going to play talented teams every week and there is anything off psychologically going into a game it could make a huge impact.

Think about what the ramifications of benching Jeremy banks apparently are. We had a great opportunity to go to the playoffs and have our quarterback win the Heisman Trophy. No matter how bright the future might be nobody could believe that’s going to happen here with any regularity. History says that this might be the closest Heupel ever comes. Just think 5 years down the road will he look back at the decision to bench banks with regret? Will it be the biggest mistake of his entire career? What is Heupel had pulled Jeremy Banks and others involved into a room and let them hash it out without any suspensions or anything getting out in the media. How differently could Saturday have turned out? If Jeremy Banks is out on the field and the defense is forcing some punts… Is Hendon hooker even running that play trying to lead a come back down three touchdowns late in the game? I think most people would believe that if the situation had been handled differently we’d have likely won the game and would still have Hooker at the helm.

Coaches are essentially CEO’s of billion dollar entities at this level. It’s not just teaching technique, calling plays, and creating game plans. It is so much more than that. Managing personalities and the psychology of a team going into a game is a big part of the job. And we’ll never know all the details that lead to the suspension on Saturday. But in hindsight… I sure as hell hope that suspension was warranted because the price our team paid is staggering.
If Josh Heupel wanted you to know, he would announce it. There are internal issues that should be addressed as a team; not in a press conference. I trust and support the decisions that CJH and Danny White make.
 
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#62

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#62
If Banks accounted for that many points, he should be the first pick in the NFL draft.
Would not count for those points individually but you need to look at it from a different perspective. My comments since most are speculating are as to how it relates to Defensive Stops.

We get 4 or 5 stops in that game of which I believe would happen if he is in the game. We change field position. It also forces them into patterns. Thus in some cases there would be a Shorter field for the team to work within their process.

This dynamic changes everything as far as score and momentum. More Blitzs were another possibly but without him we played with a hand tied behind our back.

Just a different game plan on the field with his presence plus leadership.

Does that make him a first pick NFL draft choice, no, but it does change the complexion of this game. IMO, yes but we will never know.

The 21 points comes from 4 - 5 defensive stops. Think about it. New score UT 59 - USC 42 which is about right. Then we are still complaining about the Defense but happy we got the win.

Banks absence tied the DCs hands and force him to play a looser sit back defense. No doubt about it.
 
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#63

OldLofter

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#63
The OP is only stating the fact that Banks didn’t play due to an internal incident in the locker room earlier in the week. That is 1000000% fact and not an assumption.
Maybe I missed something here. Pls point me to a credible source that said there was an “internal incident in the locker room”. I could certainly have missed it.
 
#64

OrangeTsar

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#64
NIL and jealousy amongst these young men, this will kill college football
And the ones that do make it to the pros will then suddenly realize that discontent over NIL will morph seamlessly into discontent over salary. Do they think that everyone on an NIL roster gets the same compensation? 😂😂😂
Welcome to the real world guys. You want equal pay, then professional sports is not for you. It ain’t socialism folks!
 
#65

vol94

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#65
Maybe I missed something here. Pls point me to a credible source that said there was an “internal incident in the locker room”. I could certainly have missed it.

I don’t think our paths have ever crossed so you don’t know if I am some keyboard warrior starting rumors or telling the truth. You asked the question so I will respond. I know it is 10000% factual that there was an altercation b/t Banks and Hooker. My son is friends with a walk on player who was present for the incident which caused strife within the team. Heupel supported Hooker and Banks didn’t travel w the team.

I posted a few comments after the rumors circulated and such player said it was okay to post basic details as the incident occurred earlier in the week and certain media outlets caught wind Sat AM that Banks didn’t make the trip. The coaches there were issues but they thought the players would put differences aside for 60 min.
 
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#66

Allvols1996

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#66
Would not count for those points individually but you need to look at it from a different perspective. My comments since most are speculating are as to how it relates to Defensive Stops.

We get 4 or 5 stops in that game of which I believe would happen if he is in the game. We change field position. It also forces them into patterns. Thus in some cases there would be a Shorter field for the team to work within their process.

This dynamic changes everything as far as score and momentum. More Blitzs were another possibly but without him we played with a hand tied behind our back.

Just a different game plan on the field with his presence plus leadership.

Does that make him a first pick NFL draft choice, no, but it does change the complexion of this game. IMO, yes but we will never know.

The 21 points comes from 4 - 5 defensive stops. Think about it. New score UT 59 - USC 42 which is about right. Then we are still complaining about the Defense but happy we got the win.

Banks absence tied the DCs hands and force him to play a looser sit back defense. No doubt about it.
How many times in sports history have we seen a player step up in the absence of another? How many times have we seen a team rally? It wasn’t Banks absence per say. It was the failure of the other players to step up. Period.

UT plays 2 linebackers. Mitchell and Beasley have both garnered starting minutes. Beasley seemed to be one of the few who was actually trying to win. It looked to me like you had a large number of players who were disinterested in being there. could it have been something else? Flu? Who knows. But, if (big if) this was a player revolt then screw every one of them. They don’t deserve to wear the orange and white. If (and that’s a big of) that’s the case.
 
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#67

Jax_Vol

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#67
If some player takes a purple odorous poop in the locker room on Saturday afternoon, everyone here at VN doesn't really require that much intel.

Let's just get out there on highly Dud-Lay Field and beat the snot out of those dam Yale rejects.
 
#71

EZE

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#71
All the locker room issues, egos, or whatever it is needs fixed before Saturday. If it isn't, it will be a long game Saturday night.

I'm really disappointed in Heupel. If there was a small altercation and Banks missed meetings/practice or classes I get he had to send a message to everyone and sit him. But he needed to have the full team support his decision because it was clear the defense didn't. We were sitting #5 with the UM vs OSU game the following week.

A little to Butch for me with the situation.
Way to jump to a conclusion based entirely on speculation and with no real facts.
 
#72

OldLofter

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#72
I don’t think our paths have ever crossed so you don’t know if I am some keyboard warrior starting rumors or telling the truth. You asked the question so I will respond. I know it is 10000% factual that there was an altercation b/t Banks and Hooker. My son is friends with a walk on player who was present for the incident which caused strife within the team. Heupel supported Hooker and Banks didn’t travel w the team.

I posted a few comments after the rumors circulated and such player said it was okay to post basic details as the incident occurred earlier in the week and certain media outlets caught wind Sat AM that Banks didn’t make the trip. The coaches there were issues but they thought the players would put differences aside for 60 min.
Thanks. Sometimes you just have to make sure you are not getting a social media “fact”. I like to be a little more careful and I appreciated your measured response.
 
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#73

DrTNT

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#73
I’ve said this before… don’t really care what Shady Nick does at his program… but m glad Heupel has a standard & if players, no matter their role, need to be suspended or held out or what ever you wanna call it he sticks to his standards. Why on God’s green earth would anyone stoop to comparing our coach to saban. Yes, saban has a lot of wins, but dang sure everybody knows he accomplished it doing what was then illegal, which is why he is now pitching fits that NIL has legalized it.
 
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#74

TheGoodStuff

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#74
The only way NIL will work is keep players' accounts private; have a manager for the accounts and dole out a similar amount every two weeks with the bulk to be transferred when the player leaves. Complicated? Yep. But it can be done.
Nice idea… have you ever had a crew of guys told their pay was confidential but it always seems to get out one way or another.

People are curious and they want to make sure they are getting what they deserve.
 

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