Heupel’s proven to be a leader and winner..

[BeardedVol]

Not for me... and I suspect not for others like you.

I like the guy. Love his character. His faith brings out one of the few real biases I have and don't battle to nullify. It sounds like he's a good leader intent on creating a tight team.

But... as far as I am concerned he has 3 years to "prove" something. Same thing applies to him as anyone else. If the reality and perception are that he isn't "succeeding" by year 3 or no later than year 4... he has to be replaced. You can only tolerate a coach until he cannot recruit at a level that advances the program. I don't think his "something" is as high as it was for Jones or even Pruitt. I think it was realistic for Jones in particular to win the East in either his 2nd or 3rd year with the advantages that fell in his lap. Pruitt just needed to improve. A 7 win season this year would not have been unrealistic with the talent they had. Six minimum.

I would like to see Heupel win 9 by year 4 and make steady progress in quality of play and roster talent.

Unfortunately, If the last ~15 years have taught is anything, it's that the administration's expectations are far different from those of the fans.

 

[sjt18]

Unfortunately, If the last ~15 years have taught is anything, it's that the administration's expectations are far different from those of the fans.

Yes. But there are some signs of change. White doesn't align with any AD at UT since at least 2000. It sounds as if some long term, "key" people in the AD were moved along when Pruitt was.

Whoever has the money backing the program right now is at a minimum giving the Chancellor and AD a lot of rope.

 

[butchna]

Not for me... and I suspect not for others like you.

I like the guy. Love his character. His faith brings out one of the few real biases I have and don't battle to nullify. It sounds like he's a good leader intent on creating a tight team.

But... as far as I am concerned he has 3 years to "prove" something. Same thing applies to him as anyone else. If the reality and perception are that he isn't "succeeding" by year 3 or no later than year 4... he has to be replaced. You can only tolerate a coach until he cannot recruit at a level that advances the program. I don't think his "something" is as high as it was for Jones or even Pruitt. I think it was realistic for Jones in particular to win the East in either his 2nd or 3rd year with the advantages that fell in his lap. Pruitt just needed to improve. A 7 win season this year would not have been unrealistic with the talent they had. Six minimum.

I would like to see Heupel win 9 by year 4 and make steady progress in quality of play and roster talent.

I need to see continual progress TOWARDS something, which is what I thought I was viewing in Pruitt’s second season. Setbacks are not deal killers...total implosion and spinning wheels are said killers. It’s been quite awhile since we had a coach who could be counted on to OUTSCHEME and out coach his opponent game in and game out. Kiffin gave a taste. Fulmer generally out talented and out fundamentalled opponents. Maybe going back to Dickey previous to Majors. Butch outcoached Spurrier in their first matchup but that was an outlier and teased a dynamic that was not to be. I’ll have fun watching and hoping.

 

[Roustabout]

8-4 should be the floor for a program like ours.

Once the roster is stabilized

 

[SaintLouisVol]

Not for me... and I suspect not for others like you.

I like the guy. Love his character. His faith brings out one of the few real biases I have and don't battle to nullify. It sounds like he's a good leader intent on creating a tight team.

But... as far as I am concerned he has 3 years to "prove" something. Same thing applies to him as anyone else. If the reality and perception are that he isn't "succeeding" by year 3 or no later than year 4... he has to be replaced. You can only tolerate a coach until he cannot recruit at a level that advances the program. I don't think his "something" is as high as it was for Jones or even Pruitt. I think it was realistic for Jones in particular to win the East in either his 2nd or 3rd year with the advantages that fell in his lap. Pruitt just needed to improve. A 7 win season this year would not have been unrealistic with the talent they had. Six minimum.

I would like to see Heupel win 9 by year 4 and make steady progress in quality of play and roster talent.

I agree, although if he suffers scholarship losses, I think it may be more difficult to get there by year 3.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

He might be better than that, we're going to find out, but the reality is that the bar for "success" at UT is low; real low.

If the bar were low, we wouldn't keep throwing out coaches and getting new ones.

Heck, we'd still have Derek Dooley.

 

[BeardedVol]

If the bar were low, we wouldn't keep throwing out coaches and getting new ones.

Heck, we'd still have Derek Dooley.

We hire an up-and-coming coordinator or coach with less than a handful of years coaching experience and the cheap, and get a few years of cheap results, and then start the process over again.

Then as fans we sit around acting surprised that the coaching hire didn't hit high levels of success, as we define it, while the administration continues on with the same hiring practices.

The admin does not care about championships. As long as the coach is putting the minimum viable product on the field to keep revenue steady, he's safe. Bowl games and >=.500 on the season is good enough for them.

 

[Falcons02]

Based on everything we've heard from reliable sources (mainly AD DW, CJH, and Chris Low after his conversation with White and others), we can have a pretty good picture of how the hiring process played out.

Graphically, it looks like this (arrows are real offers...boxes without arrows are conversations that never progressed to an offer, colors are redlight-greenlight indicators of how interested each candidate was in the conversation...the rainbow boxes mean we will probably never know how interested each of those guys were):

View attachment 354343

We know the Franklin conversation went longer than White expected, which threw a wrench in the discussions with Elliott as the backup plan. Elliott soured, probably over feeling like the second-run that he was, to Franklin. Through all of that, Danny was exploring possible Plan Cs...that's where the conversations with guys like Fleck and Dykes came in. Never deep conversations, apparently, just looking at other options.

Then, in the final hours of the effort, a light bulb came on for White: short of Franklin, what he was looking for was right there at the place he just left, Orlando. So his Plan C which may already have become Plan B or even Plan A, was the guy we eventually got.

Kinda fun to reflect that all this happened in just 5 short days, two of them a weekend. 120 hours. I bet White and some of his closest lieutenants didn't sleep more than 3-4 hours a night, 15-20 hours total, over those five days.

I think Dan did a great job. Excited to see what Josh can make of his time as a Vol, and hoping it's a very long, successful time.

Go Vols!

JP you are one of the bright, shining lights here on VN. Always love your input.

I was not initially a fan of the hire, but I am warming up. The proof is in the pudding, though.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

JP you are one of the bright, shining lights here on VN. Always love your input.

I was not initially a fan of the hire, but I am warming up. The proof is in the pudding, though.

Thanks, brother.

Yeah, if only we can start winning championships. That's all we ask for!

 

[sjt18]

I agree, although if he suffers scholarship losses, I think it may be more difficult to get there by year 3.

Depends on how many and how they apply the losses but yes. I would agree.

 

[sjt18]

Jim Rome is sold on Tennessee’s hire of Josh Heupel: ‘He’s going to bring them back’. Jim Rome seems to be a big fan of him.

Kind of surprising. I can't remember Rome saying anything else positive about UT ever.

 

[PNW Huskie]

The more I read the better I feel but no coach will ever earn many fans blanket support anymore until it's proven on the field. The days of claiming "home run" and whatnot for hires are over. We've been led down the garden path too many times. I really hope we look like an organized well coached team. That will initially be more important than the record. He'll need to pass the eye test then you'll start to see and feel some excitement and momentum. If he only proves to be a place holder that's fine too because he could end up the coach we need to get us to "THE"coach. Steady the ship and play good football will earn everyone's respect. GO VOLS!

 

[VOL_Lyfe]

8-4 should be the floor for a program like ours.

that would be in some alternate universe, in a SciFi miniseries I would most definitely binge.

 

[sjt18]

We hire an up-and-coming coordinator or coach with less than a handful of years coaching experience and the cheap, and get a few years of cheap results, and then start the process over again.

Then as fans we sit around acting surprised that the coaching hire didn't hit high levels of success, as we define it, while the administration continues on with the same hiring practices.

The admin does not care about championships. As long as the coach is putting the minimum viable product on the field to keep revenue steady, he's safe. Bowl games and >=.500 on the season is good enough for them.

There are two general methods and neither guarantees success.

UT has hired up and comers... and so far they've failed. Lots of other programs have done the same and a percentage of them succeed. Many and probably most do not by any measure of "success" we would likely accept.

Then... a program can spend a bunch more money and hire a "proven winner". USCe hired Spurrier. He gave them their best years in their history. They didn't win a championship and got slaughtered in their only appearance in Spurrier's 11 seasons. I would say that Spurrier is one of the top 5 coaches in CFB over the last 30 years easily... and he didn't win championships at USCe.

Koetter, Hawkin, and Petersen all got promotions from Boise and were considered homerun hires by the schools that hired them. Koetter and Hawkins were both fired. Petersen has done better at Washington but has hardly been dominant in a league that's been pretty bad.

TAM's history has been worse than UT's. Mike Sherman was a successful NFL coach before taking over TAM and was fired. Sumlin was a coach everyone was drooling over when he was hired. He was fired 5 years later having never won the division and only finishing better than 4th once. He has now been fired again by Arizona.

Could a program have felt any better than Michigan when they got Harbaugh?

Bret Bielema rolled into Arkansas on a wave of 3 consecutive Big 10 titles. They had to be convinced they had hit the jackpot. Five years later he was fired with an 11-29 conference record.

I DO think that James Franklin is a really good coach. PSU without doubt thought they had found the magic bullet for tOSU when they hired him. So far in 7 years he's tied for 1st in year 3 and has otherwise been an "also ran". Many if not most commentators would have considered him an absolute homerun for UT.


Sure things... aren't. Once you are on the coaching carousel you never know when you will get off.

 

[FatAlbert]

Was he a Tennessee fan when he coached at Mizzou? 2:18

 

[thistime]

I think CJH will win here IF we can get a defense that is able to be both aggressive and consistent in getting off the field on third down. We win a few games and show he has a high scoring offense, the big names will come because of the SEC, our facilities and fan base. The defense will benefit from the offense's success on the recruiting trail as well because of the potential positive exposure they can get by coming here as well.

 

[MaTaLa]

O'Reilly??

 

[chrismc1000]

We should of just paid Franklin anything he wanted hopefully in a few years if everything goes good we can get a proven coach with a blank check

 

[SaintLouisVol]

There are two general methods and neither guarantees success.

UT has hired up and comers... and so far they've failed. Lots of other programs have done the same and a percentage of them succeed. Many and probably most do not by any measure of "success" we would likely accept.

Then... a program can spend a bunch more money and hire a "proven winner". USCe hired Spurrier. He gave them their best years in their history. They didn't win a championship and got slaughtered in their only appearance in Spurrier's 11 seasons. I would say that Spurrier is one of the top 5 coaches in CFB over the last 30 years easily... and he didn't win championships at USCe.

Koetter, Hawkin, and Petersen all got promotions from Boise and were considered homerun hires by the schools that hired them. Koetter and Hawkins were both fired. Petersen has done better at Washington but has hardly been dominant in a league that's been pretty bad.

TAM's history has been worse than UT's. Mike Sherman was a successful NFL coach before taking over TAM and was fired. Sumlin was a coach everyone was drooling over when he was hired. He was fired 5 years later having never won the division and only finishing better than 4th once. He has now been fired again by Arizona.

Could a program have felt any better than Michigan when they got Harbaugh?

Bret Bielema rolled into Arkansas on a wave of 3 consecutive Big 10 titles. They had to be convinced they had hit the jackpot. Five years later he was fired with an 11-29 conference record.

I DO think that James Franklin is a really good coach. PSU without doubt thought they had found the magic bullet for tOSU when they hired him. So far in 7 years he's tied for 1st in year 3 and has otherwise been an "also ran". Many if not most commentators would have considered him an absolute homerun for UT.


Sure things... aren't. Once you are on the coaching carousel you never know when you will get off.

This could not be any more true, yet there is a complete subset of VolNation that just refuse to believe it.

 

[CAVPUT]

I think Heupel is a huge upgrade over Pruitt and Dooley, lets see if he can surpass Butch.....

Hell, the bag boy at the local Piggly Wiggly is an upgrade over Pruitt. As for Heupel, I gave up on buying in on the hype surrounding these new head coaches and their staffs. Think I'll just wait until we get to see the product on the field and the results. No more drinking the orange koolaid for me. Probably smarter to stick with whisky.

 

[Seattle Hillbilly]

The more I read the better I feel but no coach will ever earn many fans blanket support anymore until it's proven on the field. The days of claiming "home run" and whatnot for hires are over. We've been led down the garden path too many times. I really hope we look like an organized well coached team. That will initially be more important than the record. He'll need to pass the eye test then you'll start to see and feel some excitement and momentum. If he only proves to be a place holder that's fine too because he could end up the coach we need to get us to "THE"coach. Steady the ship and play good football will earn everyone's respect. GO VOLS!

Nice comment, but if that “Huskie” in your name is from the UDub I may have to take back my like.

 

[VolFlAlum]

Based on everything we've heard from reliable sources (mainly AD DW, CJH, and Chris Low after his conversation with White and others), we can have a pretty good picture of how the hiring process played out.

Graphically, it looks like this (arrows are real offers...boxes without arrows are conversations that never progressed to an offer, colors are redlight-greenlight indicators of how interested each candidate was in the conversation...the rainbow boxes mean we will probably never know how interested each of those guys were):

View attachment 354343

We know the Franklin conversation went longer than White expected, which threw a wrench in the discussions with Elliott as the backup plan. Elliott soured, probably over feeling like the second-run that he was, to Franklin. Through all of that, Danny was exploring possible Plan Cs...that's where the conversations with guys like Fleck and Dykes came in. Never deep conversations, apparently, just looking at other options.

Then, in the final hours of the effort, a light bulb came on for White: short of Franklin, what he was looking for was right there at the place he just left, Orlando. So his Plan C which may already have become Plan B or even Plan A, was the guy we eventually got.

Kinda fun to reflect that all this happened in just 5 short days, two of them a weekend. 120 hours. I bet White and some of his closest lieutenants didn't sleep more than 3-4 hours a night, 15-20 hours total, over those five days.

I think Dan did a great job. Excited to see what Josh can make of his time as a Vol, and hoping it's a very long, successful time.

Go Vols!

so basically #7 on the list

 

[71VOL]

The offense should be great! If we can’t stop anyone it won’t matter.. bottom line

 

[chuck0303]

Based on everything we've heard from reliable sources (mainly AD DW, CJH, and Chris Low after his conversation with White and others), we can have a pretty good picture of how the hiring process played out.

Graphically, it looks like this (arrows are real offers...boxes without arrows are conversations that never progressed to an offer, colors are redlight-greenlight indicators of how interested each candidate was in the conversation...the rainbow boxes mean we will probably never know how interested each of those guys were):

View attachment 354343

We know the Franklin conversation went longer than White expected, which threw a wrench in the discussions with Elliott as the backup plan. Elliott soured, probably over feeling like the second-run that he was, to Franklin. Through all of that, Danny was exploring possible Plan Cs...that's where the conversations with guys like Fleck and Dykes came in. Never deep conversations, apparently, just looking at other options.

Then, in the final hours of the effort, a light bulb came on for White: short of Franklin, what he was looking for was right there at the place he just left, Orlando. So his Plan C which may already have become Plan B or even Plan A, was the guy we eventually got.

Kinda fun to reflect that all this happened in just 5 short days, two of them a weekend. 120 hours. I bet White and some of his closest lieutenants didn't sleep more than 3-4 hours a night, 15-20 hours total, over those five days.

I think Dan did a great job. Excited to see what Josh can make of his time as a Vol, and hoping it's a very long, successful time.

Go Vols!

I'm sure glad they didn't hire Franklin. He's an azz in my opinion. Definitely not what UT needs.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

so basically #7 on the list

No.

Not on the list at all, initially. Dan White didn't want to hurt UCF that way. And you could never really categorize a handful of phone calls to explore possibilities as "putting people on the list."

More accurate to say Josh Heupel was Dan White's surprising third option. Surprising even to himself.