He Had His Elbow Too High, He Had His Elbow Too Low

#1
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BurnieVeazey

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#1
On Saturday CPF said the coaches in the booth told him Foster had his elbow too high on the Fumble. How this was I dont know as it is baffling. Sunday he flip flopped and blamed Arian for having his elbow too low. Now as ridiculous as this throwing Foster under the bus is, and the illogic behind these contradictory statements, we all can see that obviously Crompton didnt put the ball in his stomach and was looking away when he actually released it with a little toss.

On the sideline the whole time was Peyton. Peyton makes the most beautiful handoffs and playaction fakes in football. He clearly shows the ball going right into the gut EVERY time, whether fake or actual handoff. This really shows on stretch plays.

Did anyone else notice this flip flop? How can Crompton be "so good" in practice, and yet they dont concentrate on this most basic of QB skills?
 
#2
#2
When a running back goes to accept a hand off your elbow is supposed to be even with your shoulder. Watch that play again and see if Fosters Elbow even gets passed his midsection. That was just a busted play but in order for play action to work you have to sell the run and the pass. So for you to say he turned his head of course he did otherwise the whole team would know its a run and the ends would collapse down on the play!

I am not taking up for Crompton but Foster is in the same boat to me! If I was the HC I would sit both of them on the bench!
 
#4
#4
Hope this doesn't get me trouble, but I think its not so much about elbow placement as head placement.

For example:
 

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#5
#5
BurnieVeazey said:
On Saturday CPF said the coaches in the booth told him Foster had his elbow too high on the Fumble. How this was I dont know as it is baffling. Sunday he flip flopped and blamed Arian for having his elbow too low. Now as ridiculous as this throwing Foster under the bus is, and the illogic behind these contradictory statements, we all can see that obviously Crompton didnt put the ball in his stomach and was looking away when he actually released it with a little toss.
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Nope. The ball got away after it hit Foster's elbow. That was 100% on him.

I feel bad for JC but IMO he's played himself out of a job... but we don't have to blame him for things that weren't his fault to get to that conclusion.


Good QB's visualize things before they happen. Jon doesn't seem to have that ability. In fact, it looks like he is a couple of counts slow.
 
#6
#6
m37bruno said:
When a running back goes to accept a hand off your elbow is supposed to be even with your shoulder. Watch that play again and see if Fosters Elbow even gets passed his midsection. That was just a busted play but in order for play action to work you have to sell the run and the pass. So for you to say he turned his head of course he did otherwise the whole team would know its a run and the ends would collapse down on the play!

I am not taking up for Crompton but Foster is in the same boat to me! If I was the HC I would sit both of them on the bench!
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Actually, the point is to look it in to the chest every handoff and playaction that way you sell the run. Peyton has this perfected. You are not supposed to turn your head, ala Crompton, and try to make them think pass. If you do it the same way everytime the ends wouldn't be able to collapse the play because it could be run or pass.

It was Crompton's fault. Foster is only a scapegoat for Fulmer.
 
#8
#8
Well we certainly have a lot of tape to analyze and compare Foster's fumbles! Lets get to the bottom of this.

Here is the lefthanded Ainge-Foster fumble vs. Florida

YouTube - Erik Ainge and Arian Foster fumble against Florida, 2007
(Pause it at 1:07)

Clearly Ainge puts it in the breadbasket correctly and it is Foster's fault. It hits him in the chest. Foster does look to have a smaller window than he does vs. Auburn.

I dont have a handy vid of the Auburn fumble. I did watch the replay several times and came to the conclusion of Crompton's fault every time. The ball didnt hit his elbow, Crompton tossed it and never looked it in. It is incorrect that a QB SHOULD look away on handoff; watch Peyton and watch Ainge. Can someone post a link to the play?
 
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#9
#9
I am hardly one to blame Crompton. I am tired of him and he needs to be benched. That said, I do blame Foster on that fumble. Look, he has a tendancy for fumbling inside pressure moments and he did it with Ainge, too. I think he just gets tight and he doesn't let the motion jsut flow like he does anywhere else on the field.

On that play I felt like while you can say Crompton should have put it where it needed to be, Foster's elbow was way too low, and what's more is that he didn't put his arms in position nearly early enough for Crompton to even have a chance to put it where it needed to be. I put that one on Foster.

I like Foster, but I have always felt Hardesty was a better and more explosive runner. He has a better chance at that HR threat when he touches the ball.

The point doesn't matter anyways, really. That play puts them (edit: Auburn) up. They aren't up later in the game like they are and there is no telling how they change their play calling on offense and possibly move it better with more gambling on offense. It's just all relative. The bottom line is that game was lost because we have an incompetent idiot at QB who cannot read a defense if his life depended on it. He reminds me of a less mobile Vince Young at the NFL level.

Who throws the ball out of bounds on 3rd and 4, not giving any person a chance to possibly make a play? Crompton does.

Then put that with crappy coaches who make this offense way too predictable when they put GJ in the g-gun formation. He has thrown 1, count it, 1 pass all year. That isn't a threat when he hasn't shown he can beat teams with his arm at least once agame on average. They bring 9 in the box and good defenses stop it, just like Auburn did.

Crompton is pathetic, and like any smart person in this state has been saying for years, Fulmer needed to be gone 3 years ago. We come to expect mediocrity here as the rest of the conference does nothing but improve. And when we fall into the conference champ game we call him brilliant. He sucks. Period.
 
#10
#10
Let's be fair.
Foster can't hold on to a ball.
Crompton can't throw one.

They are both solidly incompetent in their own right.
 
#11
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BurnieVeazey said:
The ball didnt hit his elbow, Crompton tossed it and never looked it in.
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Then there's something badly wrong with your eyes. Foster's elbow is clearly low on the play and the ball hits it. I'm pretty sure that's been acknowledged by all the relevant people within the program.

JC has been at fault enough times to justify a replacement without blaming him for something that was Foster's fault.
 
#12
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sjt18 said:
Then there's something badly wrong with your eyes. Foster's elbow is clearly low on the play and the ball hits it. I'm pretty sure that's been acknowledged by all the relevant people within the program.

JC has been at fault enough times to justify a replacement without blaming him for something that was Foster's fault.
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Well I am amenable to your POV. But the most relevant to the program said 2 different, completely contradictory things so that is not much of an argument.

Can someone use their google fu to find the play in question?
 
#13
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sjt18 said:
Then there's something badly wrong with your eyes. Foster's elbow is clearly low on the play and the ball hits it. I'm pretty sure that's been acknowledged by all the relevant people within the program.

JC has been at fault enough times to justify a replacement without blaming him for something that was Foster's fault.
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Yep. BurnieVeazey needs to visit an optometrist.
 
#14
#14
Vol423 said:
Yep. BurnieVeazey needs to visit an optometrist.
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Hey 76% of people agree with me in the poll :). That logically doesnt preclude my need for glasses, but I think you guys have to be open minded enough to admit that you need to look at it again as well.
 
#15
#15
BurnieVeazey said:
Hey 76% of people agree with me in the poll :). That logically doesnt preclude my need for glasses, but I think you guys have to be open minded enough to admit that you need to look at it again as well.
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Yes. Many of the 76% are blind. The remainder of the 76% are sheep that are just repeating what the two moron announcers for the game stated. I Tivo'd the game. I've seen the fumble a ton of times. Crompton CLEARLY hits Arian Foster's elbow with the ball, and Arian Foster's elbow is CLEARLY WAY TOO LOW (which was the cause of Crompton hitting Arian's elbow with the ball). I wonder how many of you so-called experts have ever actually played quarterback or running back and, therefore, know the proper mechanics of a handoff.
 
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#16
#16
If one guy screws up it's the other's job to compensate. If Foster's elbow was too low Crompton should have been looking, noticed the problem, and adjusted his handoff. I imagine they both tightened up a bit because of their proximity to the goal line.

I have sort of a hard time believing that after around 550 carries that Arian all of a sudden forgot how to position his arms or that he hasn't done this exact same thing several times, but the QB has always adjusted.
 
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#17
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Vol423 said:
Yes. Many of the 76% are blind. The remainder of the 76% are sheep that are just repeating what the two moron announcers for the game stated. I Tivo'd the game. I've seen the fumble a ton of times. Crompton CLEARLY hits Arian Foster's elbow with the ball, and Arian Foster's elbow is CLEARLY WAY TOO LOW (which was the cause of Crompton hitting Arian's elbow with the ball). I wonder how many of you so-called experts have ever actually played quarterback or running back and, therefore, know the proper mechanics of a handoff.
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I have certainly played the position. If you tivoed it, put up the video. CBS Sportsline took their highlights down, and none of the other videos shows a closeup.

Nobody is being a Foster apologist. If it hit his elbow and was knocked loose ok, but why did Crompton let it go and not look it in?

The point of all this isnt Foster or Crompton, but the basics and execution. If Crompton's handoff technique is suspect, someone on the coaching staff messed up in working with him by either negligence or ignorance. Heck if you cant find the video of Fosters fumble, lets just look at a couple of recent Crompton handoffs to see where the problem lies. Like JC says, gotta watch the video.
 
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#21
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kptvol said:
If one guy screws up it's the other's job to compensate. If Foster's elbow was too low Crompton should have been looking, noticed the problem, and adjusted his handoff. I imagine they both tightened up a bit because of their proximity to the goal line.

I have sort of a hard time believing that after around 550 carries that Arian all of a sudden forgot how to position his arms or that he hasn't done this exact same thing several times, but the QB has always adjusted.
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Hence the reason I said earlier that if you look at the replay again he doesn't put his arms into position until it's too late for Crompton to compensate for him. Also, you can find it hard to believe after 550 carries, but the bottom line is that Foster is notorious for this. This isn't exactly a first time for him in a proximity of 5 yards to the goaline.

EDIT:

BurnieVeazey said:
Well we certainly have a lot of tape to analyze and compare Foster's fumbles! Lets get to the bottom of this.

Here is the lefthanded Ainge-Foster fumble vs. Florida

YouTube - Erik Ainge and Arian Foster fumble against Florida, 2007
(Pause it at 1:07)

Clearly Ainge puts it in the breadbasket correctly and it is Foster's fault. It hits him in the chest. Foster does look to have a smaller window than he does vs. Auburn.
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Also, I just watched this, and this one is not Foster's fault. He puts it right in there? Are you kidding me? He slames the point of the ball right into Foster's abdomen. That is hardly a smooth handoff. RB's save plays like this from going south all the time, but that is hardly something to bash Foster for, at least no more so than Ainge.
 
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#22
#22
I agree...umpteen fumbles in crucial situations and now we're gonna blame Crompton?? Nah, Arian you own this one too. I say bench 'em both for taking a giant crap on our season....Hardesty's our best RB anyway.
 
#23
#23
Uh. Arian fumbling the ball from a hit may have happened a few times, but he has no history of having trouble with the handoff.
 
#24
#24
kptvol said:
Uh. Arian fumbling the ball from a hit may have happened a few times, but he has no history of having trouble with the handoff.
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Arian's fumbles weren't as much "from hits" as they were from poor ball carrying habits in crucial situations. He has a history of it...they put together a highlight real of his crucial fumbles for the Auburn game, almost like they knew he'd do it. Crompton deserves partial blame, perhaps, but when the thing quacks 50 times it's pretty much a duck, ya know??
 
#25
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rockytophigh said:
Arian's fumbles weren't as much "from hits" as they were from poor ball carrying habits in crucial situations. He has a history of it...they put together a highlight real of his crucial fumbles for the Auburn game, almost like they knew he'd do it. Crompton deserves partial blame, perhaps, but when the thing quacks 50 times it's pretty much a duck, ya know??
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He hasn't fumbled 50 times. He's probably got eight career fumbles. All of his fumbles have come long, long after the handoff, so I don't see how that is really a related issue. I think Lennon Creer's first ever play as a Vol was a fumbled handoff. Guess that guy never needs to play again.
 
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