Harper vs. Lawson

#51

madtownvol

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#51
I tell my kids to watch what they put on social media. A two second search pulled that you’ve used Kelly in referring to Coach Harper multiple times previously as far back as 2019 as a Coach and 2017 the player. Again, no need to correct me if you can’t get it right yourself. Won’t mention that you left a “t” out in Summitt in this review. Seems lack of comprehension is contagious or as you stated "aphasia". I’ll leave this little nugget here for your review and won’t go back on all them. Go Vols
LOL, I made a mistake and have corrected it. Seriously, why is "Kelly versus Kellie" the hill you wish to die on?

P.S. I got corrected on that misspell back in the day. You know what, I LEARNED....
 
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#52

Majors

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#52
LOL, I made a mistake and have corrected it. Seriously, why is "Kelly versus Kellie" the hill you wish to die on?

P.S. I got corrected on that Kelly misspell back in the day. You know what, I LEARNED....
Who said I was dying on it again? Pretty sure I didn't think twice about it until you decided you needed to step in. Speaking of back in the day, it was less than a month ago based on the timestamp of the two provided. I'm sure you're a decent fan, stay that way and no need address any fan individually if you're not buttoned up yourself. Bigger issues this weekend with this team outside of Kelly or Kellie, Kelley or even Kelleigh. I appreciate a good conversation, let's keep it that way.
 
#59

Franklin Pierce

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#59
Vol fans have nothing to cheer about and so they try to soak in the hardships of other programs. We should be better than this--but because we've been mediocre for so long, sadly, we are not.
It's about Kara Lawson and Duke and nobody else. Lawson was heralded far and wide as a coach who would win a national championship at Duke, even though she had never coached any basketball team in her life. She was IT. The next Big Thing.

In year one Lawson was in the early learning phase of coaching a basketball team, so REALISTIC expectations were not high. But to not receive a bid to the NCAA Tournament can be classified as nothing other than failure.
 
#61

LadyOrange

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#61
What were the problems in the NC State athletic department when Harper was there? She was 23--39 in the ACC when the coach at NC State, which is bad, and her overall record was barely above 500. That will get you sacked, no matter what.
Kellie came in immediately after Kay Yow passed away. Following a beloved and excellent coach is tough. Same thing happened to Holly. Kellie has had time to mature as a coach and a person and is the seasoned coach Kara isn’t. I love Kara, but at this point, Kellie has the experience.
 
#62

LadyVol1908

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#62
It's about Kara Lawson and Duke and nobody else. Lawson was heralded far and wide as a coach who would win a national championship at Duke, even though she had never coached any basketball team in her life. She was IT. The next Big Thing.

In year one Lawson was in the early learning phase of coaching a basketball team, so REALISTIC expectations were not high. But to not receive a bid to the NCAA Tournament can be classified as nothing other than failure.
What is it with you and Kara?! Let’s not forget she’s a Lady Vol for life. You regularly take swipes at her whenever you can, and it’s really weird.
 
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#65

madtownvol

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#65
People love to make conclusions based on very little data. If I'm not mistaken, Duke had a men's basketball coach who had trouble getting his team over the hump in his first few years. They were patient enough with him, and he ended up winning a few games.
Who said I was dying on it again? Pretty sure I didn't think twice about it until you decided you needed to step in. Speaking of back in the day, it was less than a month ago based on the timestamp of the two provided. I'm sure you're a decent fan, stay that way and no need address any fan individually if you're not buttoned up yourself. Bigger issues this weekend with this team outside of Kelly or Kellie, Kelley or even Kelleigh. I appreciate a good conversation, let's keep it that way.

Well, digging through my old post to find times when I misspelled Kellie may not be dyin' but it is a "I am on life support" move. But I don't wear those mistakes on my sleeve like a badge of honor. Maybe you are doing a parody of men who simply can not acknowledge a mistake under any circumstances, If so, you got with a very convincing performance. But anyway I am sure you are a decent fan, stay that way and no need to continue act as though it is a test of your masculinity to continue misspelling the head coaches name. You should have no trouble with that small token of respect unless you are too obstinate yourself. There are bigger issues this week with first round of the NCAA tournament. I appreciate a good conversation, let's keep it that away.

,
 
#66

Majors

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#66
Well, digging through my old post to find times when I misspelled Kellie may not be dyin' but it is a "I am on life support" move. But I don't wear those mistakes on my sleeve like a badge of honor. Maybe you are doing a parody of men who simply can not acknowledge a mistake under any circumstances, If so, you got with a very convincing performance. But anyway I am sure you are a decent fan, stay that way and no need to continue act as though it is a test of your masculinity to continue misspelling the head coaches name. You should have no trouble with that small token of respect unless you are too obstinate yourself. There are bigger issues this week with first round of the NCAA tournament. I appreciate a good conversation, let's keep it that away.

,
You’re back on this again. Pretty sure I stated above I didn’t think twice about it until you pointed it out. But since you made the choice to bring it back up unprovoked I’ll make sure to not correct myself moving forward on the matter of her first name spelling. All in the name of being rent free in your head and as you said other matters this week.

The pulling of old post was a nice reminder that you need to make sure you’re buttoned up before you get out of your lane.
 
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#67

Chippo

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#67
What is it with you and Kara?! Let’s not forget she’s a Lady Vol for life. You regularly take swipes at her whenever you can, and it’s really weird.
I just hope both women do well. Kinda silly
bickering over which one would have been a
better Lady Vol coach. Kellie is our coach,,
Kara is Duke's. It is what it is. This post isn't
a knock on you Lady Vol1908
 
#68

Volfan2012

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#68
Three up to five years does not a coaching career make. All the successful coaches of today 99 percent had a very rough go their first three to five seasons before they could get things going. So I wouldn't discount Kellie or Kara at this point. Kellie is getting into the area where she needs to advance the program meaning next two seasons. Kara only one full season she certainly should be given much more time to prove or disprove her ability.
 
#69

StorrsCentral

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#69
Think she declined the WNIT bid
I have always thought that Kara would make a great coach, but her decision to not play in the WNIT is a bad one. Its not about her, its about the players. Sure, its not the NCAA tournament, but the freshmen and sophomore have never played in a tournament at all. Its about experience, taking baby steps for her and her players. How many tournament appearances for Kara as a coach, zero is what I can come up with. Vandy was invited and they accepted, cause its all about building a program and giving the players a chance to have a great time and play in the post season for once in their lives. Hopefully both will have more opportunities in the future, but you have to start somewhere. To deny letting the players the chance to go on is very arrogant by the coach. Its about the players, not the head coach.
 
#70

lvocd

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#70
I have always thought that Kara would make a great coach, but her decision to not play in the WNIT is a bad one. Its not about her, its about the players. Sure, its not the NCAA tournament, but the freshmen and sophomore have never played in a tournament at all. Its about experience, taking baby steps for her and her players. How many tournament appearances for Kara as a coach, zero is what I can come up with. Vandy was invited and they accepted, cause its all about building a program and giving the players a chance to have a great time and play in the post season for once in their lives. Hopefully both will have more opportunities in the future, but you have to start somewhere. To deny letting the players the chance to go on is very arrogant by the coach. Its about the players, not the head coach.
Do we know for certain it was Kara's decision? Could Duke have an unspoken rule about it? Could she have left it to the players to decide? I have no idea, just asking because it's possible it wasn't her choice. Could have been. May have been. Just not certain it was.

Also, StorrsCentral, do you think Geno woukd have accepted a WNIT bid if the team hadn't bounced back like they did and had fallen just short of NCAA Tournament expectations this year?
 
#71

madtownvol

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#71
I have always thought that Kara would make a great coach, but her decision to not play in the WNIT is a bad one. Its not about her, its about the players. Sure, its not the NCAA tournament, but the freshmen and sophomore have never played in a tournament at all. Its about experience, taking baby steps for her and her players. How many tournament appearances for Kara as a coach, zero is what I can come up with. Vandy was invited and they accepted, cause its all about building a program and giving the players a chance to have a great time and play in the post season for once in their lives. Hopefully both will have more opportunities in the future, but you have to start somewhere. To deny letting the players the chance to go on is very arrogant by the coach. Its about the players, not the head coach.
According to the Duke chronicle. this decision was made by the team not the coach:

Duke's culture is proudly player-led, so it's unsurprising that the decision to voluntarily end its season for the second-straight year would be a team-wide discussion. With the team's rotation consisting of seven transfers and a freshman who arrived to campus in August (Day-Wilson), the roster includes this year's ACC Freshman of the Year (again Day-Wilson), WNBA hopefuls, Fuqua students heavily invested in their coursework and players who've been to Sweet Sixteens. (Those categories are not mutually exclusive.) Especially given the factors pervading the Blue Devils’ collapse over the past two months, it’s understandable that the team was not fully in lockstep.
The report notes that the decision was not unanimous and some players were up for the NIT but a divided team is not tournament ready.


In terms of being mistake, Notre Dame also declined their NIT (with a first year coach) and is now a #5 seed in the NCAA tournament.

To the extent that Kara might have also support declining the bid, like Notre Dame, it can be seen as setting a standard. If we are not good enough for the NCAA, we are not taking a consolation prize. It is time to work on getting better.

Duke declines NIT bid
 
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#72

madtownvol

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#72
Do we know for certain it was Kara's decision? Could Duke have an unspoken rule about it? Could she have left it to the players to decide? I have no idea, just asking because it's possible it wasn't her choice. Could have been. May have been. Just not certain it was.

Also, StorrsCentral, do you think Geno woukd have accepted a WNIT bid if the team hadn't bounced back like they did and had fallen just short of NCAA Tournament expectations this year?
It was a team decision not Kara's
 
#73

Franklin Pierce

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#73
It was a team decision not Kara's
Post on Duke women's basketball forum:

You can come up with whatever excuses you want, but turning down a WNIT bid looks bad for both the players and the coaches. People are making too many excuses for Lawson. I get the covid issues, injuries, etc., but a good coach works to overcome them. When so many players play beneath their potential or past performance, that's on the head coach. I also get the comparison to K's first years, but he didn't have the talent that this year's women's team had. I'm not saying fire her, just hold her accountable for her results and stop making excuses because we hope it all works out.
 
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#74

madtownvol

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#74
Post on Duke women's basketball forum:

You can come up with whatever excuses you want, but turning down a WNIT bid looks bad for both the players and the coaches. People are making too many excuses for Lawson. I get the covid issues, injuries, etc., but a good coach works to overcome them. When so many players play beneath their potential or past performance, that's on the head coach. I also get the comparison to K's first years, but he didn't have the talent that this year's women's team had. I'm not saying fire her, just hold her accountable for her results and stop making excuses because we hope it all works out.

So? The quoted post is juxtaposing two different ideas. 1) It looks bad to turn down an NIT (well, it looks bad to who and by what criteria?--again Notre Dame did the same thing last year with no apparent consequences) and 2) Duke under performed this year and Kara needs to be held "accountable." Okay, what does this poster want in terms of accountability - a public stoning? Does forcing Duke to play against their will somehow hold Kara "accountable" for a subpar season? The accountability will come if Duke does not start playing better in the next 2 years. Getting fired (or a contract extension) is the only accountability facing coaches. Whether or not fans makes "excuses" does not have diddly squat impact on a coach's accountability.
 
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