Gun control debate (merged)

[LouderVol]

First, the constitution was written in the freakin' 18th century. It's a wonderful document but anybody who thinks we as a country/society should
take an originalist view of it is crazy because the world--and the U.S.---is obviously massively different than it was in 1787.

Agreed, just like the 1st ammendment protects free speech on things like radios, TV, and internet, the 2A protects gun ownership of weapons that weren't around at the time.

Second, much if not most of the constitution is open to interpretation--and of course many current judicial decisions are merely interpretations of constitutional language that is vague or imprecise.

just like the rest of the Constitution, none of the rights are explicitly spelled out. the 2A is in line with the rest, and going back to the first point, its clear the Constitution is open to technologies beyond the 1800s. The media of free speech has moved much further from what is was in the 1800s, than how guns have changed.

The 2nd amendment has been interpreted differently by different courts--and make no mistake, it does put gun ownership in the context of local militias that don't exist and won't exist every again.

no, it clearly mentions STATE militias, and the right of the PEOPLE, as two separate clauses. Militias are protected in one clause, private gun ownership is protected in the other. why won't militia's exist again? every state has a "state defense force" that is separate from the national guard. And there is nothing limiting a state from calling up a militia.

Third and most important, gun violence is a very serious practical problem in this country.

define practical problem? there are 550 shootings, both fatal and not-fatal, in Atlanta where I live. The least amount of injuries caused by car accidents in the last 10 years, was 14,000. Car accidents are a 28x more "practical" problem. Even when looking nationwide the number car accident DEATHS is usually pretty close to ALL gun deaths, including shootings by cops. You have to be pretty selective to get down to the 9th cause of death in this nation to determine its a problem that requires removal of rights to solve.

Widespread gun ownership and lax regulations have
put the public at serious risk

fewer people own guns, and there are more gun laws now than previously, so this entire argument is based on lies

--as we see it every freakin' day witg many innocent people gunned down by individuals who, the day before their gun crimes, would have been described by the gun crazies as "responsible gun owners."

no, most shootings are performed by previous criminals. those shootings just get conflated into the argument of good guys gone bad by the media, because they are too intellectually dishonest to tell you the truth.

There are far, far, far, too many guns in America,

the numbers of guns in this country has no direct or indirect impact on the rate of shootings. the number of guns in this country grows at a far greater rate than the rate of shootings. again sampling bias by the media leads you to believe otherwise [/quote] and far, far, far too many weird, maladjusted, mentally troubled people--no doubt millions of such people. That is a combination that accounts for the unconscionable amount of gun violence we see and read about every day.[/quote] until you are able to give us what would be an "acceptable
amount of gun violence you are just a dog chasing cars, you wouldn't know what to do with it if you caught it [/quote] And yet we have conservatives and conservative politicians in American who are determined to not only
not address the problem but in fact to make it worse!

their solutions are rejected. the people who actually know things about guns have made plenty of suggestions for changes to help the problem, but they are flat out rejected because the people who don't know about guns think they don't go far enough. There is no compromise.

They think /more/ people should have guns--which only goes to show in high relief how insane and
irresponsible the political right is in America.

if we are able to take care of the people problem, why wouldn't you be ok with more people having guns? Again this just shows that you don't care about the lives, the people, you only care about getting rid of guns.

These are the same old white men who pretend to weep about abortion. Sickening hypocrisy. Apparently, not enough of their constituents have yet been killed in mass shootings.

not touching this just because abortion talk tends to derail this thread.

As I've said, I've lived in Japan for a couple of years. It was nice to walk the streets of Tokyo knowing that, if I bumped into or had a disagreement with somebody, he wasn't going to pull out a gun and shoot me. Or that I wasn't going to be shot while buying a bag of rice in a grocer.

I live in Atlanta, I have bumped into hundreds if not thousands of people, I have never once been afraid or thought someone was going to shoot me. I have hung out after midnight in pretty much every part of town, never had an issue with someone pulling a gun. this is just paranoia on your part.

One of the first questions I got asked by my new Japanese colleagues when I got to Tokyo--true story--was whether I owned a gun. It was embarrassing.

why would this be embarrassing? in different cultures different things happen, and its common to be asked about it. you are illogically insecure about guns if even asking you if you own a gun causes a reaction.

Of course part of the problem is that the U.S. is a big country with an antithetical society--meaning we have two societies, really, with opposing backgrounds, education levels, life experiences, etc. Until we start bridging that divide--on guns and many other issues--this country will suffer.

that bridge has to be built from both sides. but right now your side is demonizing the good gun owners, over a hundred million of us. That hardly speaks to you wanting to bridge anything. this is just another nice sounding phrase with no real intent behind it.

the real reason gun violence never gets addressed by politicians is because its more useful to both sides as a political volleyball than it would be to solve it. just like healthcare, the border, and most other hot button items. They all get more "clicks" if they keep things in limbo. if they solved it they would lose a lot of political will. its why neither side will ever accept a starting point.

 

[LouderVol]

Not even in the same universe.

please. you already want the NRA disbanded even though they haven't been involved in ANY mass shooting. I mean at this point the law of averages said an NRA member "should" have one, the fact that they haven't shows they are far more responsible than you want to believe they are.

 

[luthervol]

please. you already want the NRA disbanded even though they haven't been involved in ANY mass shooting. I mean at this point the law of averages said an NRA member "should" have one, the fact that they haven't shows they are far more responsible than you want to believe they are.

When have I ever asked for the NRA to be disbanded?

 

[LouderVol]

When have I ever asked for the NRA to be disbanded?

you have described them as "gun nuts" and a problem. I guess you were only doing that to drag their names through the mud with no ulterior motives or desires.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

First, the constitution was written in the freakin' 18th century. It's a wonderful document but anybody who thinks we as a country/society should
take an originalist view of it is crazy because the world--and the U.S.---is obviously massively different than it was in 1787.

Second, much if not most of the constitution is open to interpretation--and of course many current judicial decisions are merely interpretations of constitutional language that is vague or imprecise. The 2nd amendment has been interpreted differently by different courts--and make no mistake, it does put gun ownership in the context of local militias that don't exist and won't exist every again.

Third and most important, gun violence is a very serious practical problem in this country. Widespread gun ownership and lax regulations have
put the public at serious risk--as we see it every freakin' day witg many innocent people gunned down by individuals who, the day before their gun crimes, would have been described by the gun crazies as "responsible gun owners." There are far, far, far, too many guns in America, and far, far, far too many weird, maladjusted, mentally troubled people--no doubt millions of such people. That is a combination that accounts for the unconscionable amount of gun violence we see and read about every day. And yet we have conservatives and conservative politicians in American who are determined to not only
not address the problem but in fact to make it worse! They think /more/ people should have guns--which only goes to show in high relief how insane and
irresponsible the political right is in America. These are the same old white men who pretend to weep about abortion. Sickening hypocrisy. Apparently, not enough of their constituents have yet been killed in mass shootings.

As I've said, I've lived in Japan for a couple of years. It was nice to walk the streets of Tokyo knowing that, if I bumped into or had a disagreement with somebody, he wasn't going to pull out a gun and shoot me. Or that I wasn't going to be shot while buying a bag of rice in a grocer. One of the first questions I got asked by my new Japanese colleagues when I got to Tokyo--true story--was whether I owned a gun. It was embarrassing. Of course part of the problem is that the U.S. is a big country with an antithetical society--meaning we have two societies, really, with opposing backgrounds, education levels, life experiences, etc. Until we start bridging that divide--on guns and many other issues--this country will suffer.

 

[85SugarVol]

I've never claimed some things are not relatively black and white. It actually lies on the black and white continuum. I would hope we would all agree that some things are much more black and white than others.
My position is that a whole lot of posters in the PF selectively see things as much more black and white than they actually are.

And freedom of the press is only one of the things on which our liberty depends. Absent the other components, freedom of the press is almost meaningless.

He’s pretty black and white there. “Cannot be limited” - pretty succinct.

Freedom of the Press & Freedom of Speech are both crucial to maintaining our Liberty. And they are intimately entwined imo.

I especially value the Freedom of Speech we are afforded in this nation. We have more liberty in that regard than most other nations.

Even other advanced nations, like say Great Britain, do not enjoy the same levels of Free Speech that we do here.

 

[kiddiedoc]

It seems like you are telling people who want to live in a society that is less gun crazed

Have you ever considered just moving somewhere that doesn't allow its citizens to possess firearms? There are plenty of options.

 

[C-south]

I bet at least half of those are bogus and not quotes from Jefferson at all.

Denial and complete ignorance is your best argument yet.

 

[loggervol]

Have you ever considered just moving somewhere that doesn't allow its citizens to possess firearms? There are plenty of options.

I may be wrong but most of those places a lot of other freedoms may be nonexistent.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I may be wrong but most of those places a lot of other freedoms may be nonexistent.

They go hand in hand, so that's for him to figure out.

 

[MG1968]

Have you ever considered just moving somewhere that doesn't allow its citizens to possess firearms? There are plenty of options.

He can’t vote for Stacey Abrams if he’s living in Uganda.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

He can’t vote for Stacey Abrams if he’s living in Uganda.

LOL Stacey Abrams. The next generation of race baiters. Laughing between those gapped teeth all the way to the bank thanks to suckers like @luthervol .

 

[InVOLuntary]

First, the constitution was written in the freakin' 18th century. It's a wonderful document but anybody who thinks we as a country/society should
take an originalist view of it is crazy because the world--and the U.S.---is obviously massively different than it was in 1787.

Second, much if not most of the constitution is open to interpretation--and of course many current judicial decisions are merely interpretations of constitutional language that is vague or imprecise. The 2nd amendment has been interpreted differently by different courts--and make no mistake, it does put gun ownership in the context of local militias that don't exist and won't exist every again.

Third and most important, gun violence is a very serious practical problem in this country. Widespread gun ownership and lax regulations have
put the public at serious risk--as we see it every freakin' day witg many innocent people gunned down by individuals who, the day before their gun crimes, would have been described by the gun crazies as "responsible gun owners." There are far, far, far, too many guns in America, and far, far, far too many weird, maladjusted, mentally troubled people--no doubt millions of such people. That is a combination that accounts for the unconscionable amount of gun violence we see and read about every day. And yet we have conservatives and conservative politicians in American who are determined to not only
not address the problem but in fact to make it worse! They think /more/ people should have guns--which only goes to show in high relief how insane and
irresponsible the political right is in America. These are the same old white men who pretend to weep about abortion. Sickening hypocrisy. Apparently, not enough of their constituents have yet been killed in mass shootings.

As I've said, I've lived in Japan for a couple of years. It was nice to walk the streets of Tokyo knowing that, if I bumped into or had a disagreement with somebody, he wasn't going to pull out a gun and shoot me. Or that I wasn't going to be shot while buying a bag of rice in a grocer. One of the first questions I got asked by my new Japanese colleagues when I got to Tokyo--true story--was whether I owned a gun. It was embarrassing. Of course part of the problem is that the U.S. is a big country with an antithetical society--meaning we have two societies, really, with opposing backgrounds, education levels, life experiences, etc. Until we start bridging that divide--on guns and many other issues--this country will suffer.

Stay out of liberal ran cities (all large cities) and you won't have that problem. Isn't it funny how all the liberal run cities have the biggest problems? The correlation is cool.

 

[C-south]

Stay out of liberal ran cities (all large cities) and you won't have that problem. Isn't it funny how all the liberal run cities have the biggest problems? The correlation is cool.

Crazy how they run their cities into the ground. They refuse to fix the problems they create, release career criminals on a daily basis, then when someone has to take matters into their own hands they take the fall.

 

[turbovol]

Look: Another "responsible gun owner."

What, is he going to claim self-defense? He should go to prison for a very long time.

This is from Maga America...



"The man who fatally shot 20-year-old Kaylin Gillis, who was in a car that mistakenly turned into his driveway, will remain in jail after a judge remanded him back to police custody at a bail hearing Wednesday.


Gillis was one of several passengers in a vehicle, along with several others, that accidentally turned into the wrong driveway Saturday while the group was looking for a friend’s house in rural upstate New York. When the friends realized their mistake and began leaving, 65-year-old Kevin Monahan fired two shots from his front porch, Washington County Sheriff Jeffrey Murphy said in a news conference Monday.


No one is believed to have exited the car, and there was no interaction between Monahan and anyone in the vehicle before shots were fired, Murphy said."

 

[82_VOL_83]

First, the constitution was written in the freakin' 18th century. It's a wonderful document but anybody who thinks we as a country/society should
take an originalist view of it is crazy because the world--and the U.S.---is obviously massively different than it was in 1787.

Second, much if not most of the constitution is open to interpretation--and of course many current judicial decisions are merely interpretations of constitutional language that is vague or imprecise. The 2nd amendment has been interpreted differently by different courts--and make no mistake, it does put gun ownership in the context of local militias that don't exist and won't exist every again.

Third and most important, gun violence is a very serious practical problem in this country. Widespread gun ownership and lax regulations have
put the public at serious risk--as we see it every freakin' day witg many innocent people gunned down by individuals who, the day before their gun crimes, would have been described by the gun crazies as "responsible gun owners." There are far, far, far, too many guns in America, and far, far, far too many weird, maladjusted, mentally troubled people--no doubt millions of such people. That is a combination that accounts for the unconscionable amount of gun violence we see and read about every day. And yet we have conservatives and conservative politicians in American who are determined to not only
not address the problem but in fact to make it worse! They think /more/ people should have guns--which only goes to show in high relief how insane and
irresponsible the political right is in America. These are the same old white men who pretend to weep about abortion. Sickening hypocrisy. Apparently, not enough of their constituents have yet been killed in mass shootings.

As I've said, I've lived in Japan for a couple of years. It was nice to walk the streets of Tokyo knowing that, if I bumped into or had a disagreement with somebody, he wasn't going to pull out a gun and shoot me. Or that I wasn't going to be shot while buying a bag of rice in a grocer. One of the first questions I got asked by my new Japanese colleagues when I got to Tokyo--true story--was whether I owned a gun. It was embarrassing. Of course part of the problem is that the U.S. is a big country with an antithetical society--meaning we have two societies, really, with opposing backgrounds, education levels, life experiences, etc. Until we start bridging that divide--on guns and many other issues--this country will suffer.

You suck at life. You really should see yourself out. Japan is looking for bottom feeders like you.

 

[joevol33]

First, the constitution was written in the freakin' 18th century. It's a wonderful document but anybody who thinks we as a country/society should
take an originalist view of it is crazy because the world--and the U.S.---is obviously massively different than it was in 1787.

Second, much if not most of the constitution is open to interpretation--and of course many current judicial decisions are merely interpretations of constitutional language that is vague or imprecise. The 2nd amendment has been interpreted differently by different courts--and make no mistake, it does put gun ownership in the context of local militias that don't exist and won't exist every again.

Third and most important, gun violence is a very serious practical problem in this country. Widespread gun ownership and lax regulations have
put the public at serious risk--as we see it every freakin' day witg many innocent people gunned down by individuals who, the day before their gun crimes, would have been described by the gun crazies as "responsible gun owners." There are far, far, far, too many guns in America, and far, far, far too many weird, maladjusted, mentally troubled people--no doubt millions of such people. That is a combination that accounts for the unconscionable amount of gun violence we see and read about every day. And yet we have conservatives and conservative politicians in American who are determined to not only
not address the problem but in fact to make it worse! They think /more/ people should have guns--which only goes to show in high relief how insane and
irresponsible the political right is in America. These are the same old white men who pretend to weep about abortion. Sickening hypocrisy. Apparently, not enough of their constituents have yet been killed in mass shootings.

As I've said, I've lived in Japan for a couple of years. It was nice to walk the streets of Tokyo knowing that, if I bumped into or had a disagreement with somebody, he wasn't going to pull out a gun and shoot me. Or that I wasn't going to be shot while buying a bag of rice in a grocer. One of the first questions I got asked by my new Japanese colleagues when I got to Tokyo--true story--was whether I owned a gun. It was embarrassing. Of course part of the problem is that the U.S. is a big country with an antithetical society--meaning we have two societies, really, with opposing backgrounds, education levels, life experiences, etc. Until we start bridging that divide--on guns and many other issues--this country will suffer.

Until you hypocrites start with demanding gangs be unarmed first, and the president and other elected officials stop being guarde with guns, then you have no right to cry about anything.

 

[joevol33]

Look: Another "responsible gun owner."

What, is he going to claim self-defense? He should go to prison for a very long time.

This is from Maga America...



"The man who fatally shot 20-year-old Kaylin Gillis, who was in a car that mistakenly turned into his driveway, will remain in jail after a judge remanded him back to police custody at a bail hearing Wednesday.


Gillis was one of several passengers in a vehicle, along with several others, that accidentally turned into the wrong driveway Saturday while the group was looking for a friend’s house in rural upstate New York. When the friends realized their mistake and began leaving, 65-year-old Kevin Monahan fired two shots from his front porch, Washington County Sheriff Jeffrey Murphy said in a news conference Monday.


No one is believed to have exited the car, and there was no interaction between Monahan and anyone in the vehicle before shots were fired, Murphy said."

Why not use the story of the guy who committed a mass shooting because a basketball rolled in his yard? Hypocrisy at it's finest.

 

[C-south]

First, the constitution was written in the freakin' 18th century. It's a wonderful document but anybody who thinks we as a country/society should
take an originalist view of it is crazy because the world--and the U.S.---is obviously massively different than it was in 1787.

Second, much if not most of the constitution is open to interpretation--and of course many current judicial decisions are merely interpretations of constitutional language that is vague or imprecise. The 2nd amendment has been interpreted differently by different courts--and make no mistake, it does put gun ownership in the context of local militias that don't exist and won't exist every again.

Third and most important, gun violence is a very serious practical problem in this country. Widespread gun ownership and lax regulations have
put the public at serious risk--as we see it every freakin' day witg many innocent people gunned down by individuals who, the day before their gun crimes, would have been described by the gun crazies as "responsible gun owners." There are far, far, far, too many guns in America, and far, far, far too many weird, maladjusted, mentally troubled people--no doubt millions of such people. That is a combination that accounts for the unconscionable amount of gun violence we see and read about every day. And yet we have conservatives and conservative politicians in American who are determined to not only
not address the problem but in fact to make it worse! They think /more/ people should have guns--which only goes to show in high relief how insane and
irresponsible the political right is in America. These are the same old white men who pretend to weep about abortion. Sickening hypocrisy. Apparently, not enough of their constituents have yet been killed in mass shootings.

As I've said, I've lived in Japan for a couple of years. It was nice to walk the streets of Tokyo knowing that, if I bumped into or had a disagreement with somebody, he wasn't going to pull out a gun and shoot me. Or that I wasn't going to be shot while buying a bag of rice in a grocer. One of the first questions I got asked by my new Japanese colleagues when I got to Tokyo--true story--was whether I owned a gun. It was embarrassing. Of course part of the problem is that the U.S. is a big country with an antithetical society--meaning we have two societies, really, with opposing backgrounds, education levels, life experiences, etc. Until we start bridging that divide--on guns and many other issues--this country will suffer.

Should be easy to amend.

 

[volfanhill]

First, the constitution was written in the freakin' 18th century. It's a wonderful document but anybody who thinks we as a country/society should
take an originalist view of it is crazy because the world--and the U.S.---is obviously massively different than it was in 1787.

Second, much if not most of the constitution is open to interpretation--and of course many current judicial decisions are merely interpretations of constitutional language that is vague or imprecise. The 2nd amendment has been interpreted differently by different courts--and make no mistake, it does put gun ownership in the context of local militias that don't exist and won't exist every again.

Third and most important, gun violence is a very serious practical problem in this country. Widespread gun ownership and lax regulations have
put the public at serious risk--as we see it every freakin' day witg many innocent people gunned down by individuals who, the day before their gun crimes, would have been described by the gun crazies as "responsible gun owners." There are far, far, far, too many guns in America, and far, far, far too many weird, maladjusted, mentally troubled people--no doubt millions of such people. That is a combination that accounts for the unconscionable amount of gun violence we see and read about every day. And yet we have conservatives and conservative politicians in American who are determined to not only
not address the problem but in fact to make it worse! They think /more/ people should have guns--which only goes to show in high relief how insane and
irresponsible the political right is in America. These are the same old white men who pretend to weep about abortion. Sickening hypocrisy. Apparently, not enough of their constituents have yet been killed in mass shootings.

As I've said, I've lived in Japan for a couple of years. It was nice to walk the streets of Tokyo knowing that, if I bumped into or had a disagreement with somebody, he wasn't going to pull out a gun and shoot me. Or that I wasn't going to be shot while buying a bag of rice in a grocer. One of the first questions I got asked by my new Japanese colleagues when I got to Tokyo--true story--was whether I owned a gun. It was embarrassing. Of course part of the problem is that the U.S. is a big country with an antithetical society--meaning we have two societies, really, with opposing backgrounds, education levels, life experiences, etc. Until we start bridging that divide--on guns and many other issues--this country will suffer.

They gave you a method to change it. Good luck.

 

[volfanhill]

When have I ever asked for the NRA to be disbanded?

lol. Gun grabber hypocrite liar. That's you. Embrace it. The posts exist to prove it.

 

[LouderVol]

Ex-UC Davis student arrested in serial stabbings that have terrorized city

Remember guns are the problem. We get rid of the guns and stuff like this becomes acceptable.

 

[luthervol]

lol. Gun grabber hypocrite liar. That's you. Embrace it. The posts exist to prove it.

So incredibly and simplemindedly stupid.

 

[kiddiedoc]

So incredibly and simplemindedly stupid.

Mirror mirror....

 

[luthervol]

Mirror mirror....

The Confederacy of Dunces.

That sounds like you are claiming that I have repeatedly accused people of having beliefs which they do not hold.
Which of course, I have not. That seems to be a practice which you guys feel the need to resort.