Gun control debate (merged)

[LouderVol]

I explained the similarities, they are just conveniently ignored, I want to know why.

Unless I missed one ,your "simularities" were singular and basic: fight tyranny.

So unless you can point me to something else I am not seeing a compelling argument

I would argue unions are closer to protest /assembly and legal representation than 2A.

 

[LouderVol]

It’s not “a job”, it freedom to pursue life, liberty, and happiness without being beholden to an entity that controls every aspect of life for a group of individuals.

Government education, government housing, government food, government welfare, government healthcare, government retirement.

 

[OHvol40]

More obfuscation. If you're "reasoning" cannot stand up and say threat/use of lethal force (with or without firearms mind you) is a viable option in seeking redress regarding civilian employers then your car is still in the garage and your entire premise is too flawed to engage in rational discussion.

Refusing to engage instead of explaining why someone may hold pro 2A & anti-union beliefs is all I received here. I guess avoidance is all that is available when a view point is unjustifiable.

 

[OHvol40]

Government education, government housing, government food, government welfare, government healthcare, government retirement.

Company housing, company stores, company education, company currency.

 

[hndog609]

Refusing to engage instead of explaining why someone may hold pro 2A & anti-union beliefs is all I received here. I guess avoidance is all that is available when a view point is unjustifiable.

Says the guy avoiding a question he must reconcile before any of the rest of it can even come into play.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I’m not espousing anything except the reasoning for maintaining the 2A and the reasoning for maintaining collective bargaining rights are extremely similar, but only one is supported by conservative folks.

Or only one is supported by the left.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Company housing, company stores, company education, company currency.

Where does that exist now?

 

[MG1968]

Where does that exist now?

China.

 

[Orangeslice13]

China.

Right.
So not anywhere where our constitution would apply

 

[OHvol40]

Says the guy avoiding a question he must reconcile before any of the rest of it can even come into play.

Those are your conditions and have nothing to do with the original inquiry.

 

[OHvol40]

Or only one is supported by the left.

I can’t speak for “the left.” I exercise support for both the 2A and collective bargaining, so personally speaking, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

 

[OHvol40]

Where does that exist now?

In the same place where oppressive monarchies do... not here. Keeping it that way is why supporting 2A and unions makes sense. That’s my whole point.

 

[hndog609]

Those are your conditions and have nothing to do with the original inquiry.

It's the egg you have to crack before you can even begin to cook this omelet. I'm beginning to suspect your reluctance in answering is you being aware of that fact.

 

[OHvol40]

It's the egg you have to crack before you can even begin to cook this omelet. I'm beginning to suspect your reluctance in answering is you being aware of that fact.

Again, that’s your condition, not mine. If you aren’t interested in responding to my inquiry, then don’t.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I can’t speak for “the left.” I exercise support for both the 2A and collective bargaining, so personally speaking, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

You are the left.
edit: as evidenced by the statement you made accusing conservatives of a problem that both experience. You just choose to focus on those you oppose

 

[Orangeslice13]

In the same place where oppressive monarchies do... not here. Keeping it that way is why supporting 2A and unions makes sense. That’s my whole point.

Is it.
The I’m sure you oppose businesses becoming union shops. Meaning you have to join the union to work there. In the same way you would oppose requiring everyone to own a gun.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Devils advocate time.
What function does the union now serve that isn’t covered by some federal agency?

 

[LouderVol]

I can’t speak for “the left.” I exercise support for both the 2A and collective bargaining, so personally speaking, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

Collective bargaining is different than the unions the right alledgely takes issue with. Unions do far far more than bargain for their people, which is where the issues come in.

 

[C-south]

I can’t speak for “the left.” I exercise support for both the 2A and collective bargaining, so personally speaking, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

You obviously have some personal stake in the union biz.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

To be honest I don’t have an “argument.” I made an observation that doesn’t add up logically and wanted someone who holds those beliefs to explain it to me. So far all I’ve received is defensiveness without justification of those beliefs.

Exactly... it didn't add up or connect logically. That's why you got the answers you got.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I explained, in detail, the similarity. They were born, and are currently maintained, to protect the citizens against tyranny.

I also said both the 2A and unions have *rightfully* fallen under scrutiny over the years. Neither the 2A nor unions have been maintained without collateral damage.

And again, one is a choice (joining a union) the other is a right (2A).

How hard is that for you to understand?

 

[OHvol40]

You are the left.
edit: as evidenced by the statement you made accusing conservatives of a problem that both experience. You just choose to focus on those you oppose

I chose to focus on people who support 2A as absolutists while simultaneously being anti-union, I never made a sweeping statement about every conservative believing one way or another. I’m just interested in people who DO think this way, what is the justification. You’re the one handing out labels, not me.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

9th circuit has already ruled on that.

Interesting... that says a lot.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I chose to focus on people who support 2A as absolutists while simultaneously being anti-union, I never made a sweeping statement about every conservative believing one way or another. I’m just interested in people who DO think this way, what is the justification. You’re the one handing out labels, not me.

So you label people while saying you are not the one labeling. Do you have a link to or supporting evidence for these people who defend the 2A while Being active In trying to end unions?

I defend the 2a vigorously while at the same time view unions as no longer necessary as their need has been replaced by some government agency. If people want to join they’re free to do so but it should not be required to work at the company. Many studies now indicate that unions are actually harmful to their membership. So again I ask should union shops be allowed?

 

[OHvol40]

Is it.
The I’m sure you oppose businesses becoming union shops. Meaning you have to join the union to work there. In the same way you would oppose requiring everyone to own a gun.

You’re way off from the fundamental idea of of being pro 2A/Union. If you want to make a point about 2A or unions and why you like/dislike either, then make it. It has nothing to do with my question.