GAME THREAD: Tennessee vs. Southern Indiana, Dec. 22, 6:30 p.m., Food City Center, SECN

[OrangeBeachVol]

I wonder if it's less that players are selfishly trying "to get mine" than it is trying to "do what the coach has said the system is designed to do and that is to have players to play free and to take shots when they feel they have one."

You can't tell them for months that you want them to play free and then be mad when they do.

Just read Kim's post game comments and she addressed 2 big problems:

1. Rebounding. Said players are just going up with one hand to tip the ball out, which another poster on here pointed that out. They need 2 hands
2. Not sharing the ball. Said there were multiple possessions where there was no pass or 1 pass and someone jacked it up.

She said they have been addressing this but its still an ingame problem. Hope she finds a way to get thru to them.

 

[madtownvol]

I wonder if it's less that players are selfishly trying "to get mine" than it is trying to "do what the coach has said the system is designed to do and that is to have players to play free and to take shots when they feel they have one."

You can't tell them for months that you want them to play free and then be mad when they do.

I am an outlier but I am never crazy about a coach calling out her players in public like that. I suppose it has its place here and there but CKC has done this a few times now. I am actually curious about when this happened in the game. I saw a lot of passing and sharing.

Was the selfish getting mine when Nia took hit consecutive open threes?. Is when Pauldo took the lane and scored? Is it the misses at the rim by (many players)?

 

[Volfan2012]

I wonder if it's less that players are selfishly trying "to get mine" than it is trying to "do what the coach has said the system is designed to do and that is to have players to play free and to take shots when they feel they have one."

You can't tell them for months that you want them to play free and then be mad when they do.

This has always been a huge problem with the system. I think more than anything else. You can't let 20 percent three point shooters think they can shoot threes it just will get you a lot of empty possessions. Were actually a fairly good three point shooting team if something like five of the players are taking the shots. We fall way off when the next five are getting almost as many.

 

[KnoxLikeUs]

You’re not an outlier.. and it certainly isn’t an upstanding model of professionalism on display from a coach frequently reprimanding players to the media but not ever showing the courage to discuss a way they can grow and become a better coach. I mean there’s no way a coach at 36 years of age with a staff full of assistants either around that age or younger are an infallible group of coaches.
The more I listen to these interviews is actually staggering the level of audacity being shown from the standpoint of CKC speaking as if her system can’t be improved, is completely flawless “when players execute”, and it’s 100% a team issue.
Look I’ve played and been around sports long enough to know that at some point this is a coach that players will not respect or want to play for at all when you are getting thrown under the bus even when you win by 45 points. The team won by the 45 points not the coach or her system.
So when they lose or struggle against teams (particularly teams with proven coaches that make live game adjustments and have a proven system that is built around its players) perhaps CKC should extend the responsibility beyond throwing players under the bus and look at what she can do better as a coach.

I am an outlier but I am never crazy about a coach calling out her players in public like that. I suppose it has its place here and there but CKC has done this a few times now. I am actually curious about when this happened in the game. I saw a lot of passing and sharing.

Was the selfish getting mine when Nia took hit consecutive open threes?. Is when Pauldo took the lane and scored? Is it the misses at the rim by (many players)?

 

[brittannica]

I am an outlier but I am never crazy about a coach calling out her players in public like that. I suppose it has its place here and there but CKC has done this a few times now. I am actually curious about when this happened in the game. I saw a lot of passing and sharing.

Was the selfish getting mine when Nia took hit consecutive open threes?. Is when Pauldo took the lane and scored? Is it the misses at the rim by (many players)?

Co-signed.

 

[KnoxLikeUs]

This is true. They (UT coach) knows these principles of every player taking 3s, mass substitutions, and 6’5 and 6’4 forwards pressing the full length of the court aren’t efficient in this system. Yet keep embellishing the observers with coach speak such as if players worked harder and do it with more effort then it’ll be successful.
If that was actually reasonable and accurate, then I’m telling you without a doubt every top program in the country would be utilizing the core principles of this system.
At this point, this is about proving a system works and not about winning at all.

This has always been a huge problem with the system. I think more than anything else. You can't let 20 percent three point shooters think they can shoot threes it just will get you a lot of empty possessions. Were actually a fairly good three point shooting team if something like five of the players are taking the shots. We fall way off when the next five are getting almost as many.

 

[volsagain]

I appreciate that Kim is honest direct and consistent. The last part of Kim section alone is interesting. She says again that the team‘s problem is that theydont stick to the plan and lack mental toughness and will. The kids don’t mind her. Called out Coop by name as having “headspace”issues. Also called them selfish “trying to get mine”.

While some of this is certainly on the players, I don’t think it’s true at all that these issues can’t be coached. Intensity, focus, buy in and discipline certainly can and should be part of player development. Geno is a genius at it.

Admittedly, there’s a mix of personalities on this team, combined with the absolute chaotic atmosphere of the system, that make focus and buy in really hard. I’m sure it’s the hardest part of coaching. Anyone can watch tape and draw Xs and Os but Kim is really struggling coaching intangibles right now. Seems to me it’s crippling to not have the bench and playing time as a tool but thats most likely off the table the rest of the season. Harder, not smarter.

Kim seems very determined so hopefully it gets better. I wish her the best.

Mia brings me hope. Sounds mature beyond her years.

Mia will be a leader. I just hope that it's as a Lady VOLS. It's going be really difficult to find the right 10 players for line change. As for being selfish I see that there out there for about 2 minutes and know there coming out so they all rush to get what they can. That's probably the biggest issue with there shooting percentage. If it stays the same there's going be a lot of ups and downs with this system.

 

[volsagain]

I wonder if it's less that players are selfishly trying "to get mine" than it is trying to "do what the coach has said the system is designed to do and that is to have players to play free and to take shots when they feel they have one."

You can't tell them for months that you want them to play free and then be mad when they do.

They need to pass the ball to open players when there guarded closely. Look for the best shot for yourself and others ( Team ) . That's what it takes to win close games and not get blown out. It's all a fine line but team players know what to do. UCLA played as a team a overcome our athletes.

 

[VolTenn25]

You’re not an outlier.. and it certainly isn’t an upstanding model of professionalism on display from a coach frequently reprimanding players to the media but not ever showing the courage to discuss a way they can grow and become a better coach. I mean there’s no way a coach at 36 years of age with a staff full of assistants either around that age or younger are an infallible group of coaches.
The more I listen to these interviews is actually staggering the level of audacity being shown from the standpoint of CKC speaking as if her system can’t be improved, is completely flawless “when players execute”, and it’s 100% a team issue.
Look I’ve played and been around sports long enough to know that at some point this is a coach that players will not respect or want to play for at all when you are getting thrown under the bus even when you win by 45 points. The team won by the 45 points not the coach or her system.
So when they lose or struggle against teams (particularly teams with proven coaches that make live game adjustments and have a proven system that is built around its players) perhaps CKC should extend the responsibility beyond throwing players under the bus and look at what she can do better as a coach.

She’s said they are executing these adjustments in practices just not games. So as a coach it is her duty to point out that they can do it it’s just not translating right now. She’s asked questions by our media that aren’t exactly thought provoking so why should she delve any further with her answers? These players have to mature & play smarter & be willing to take criticism. You think Geno babies his players? Pat never used lace gloves with hers. They need to hear the truth to improve. Whether that’s face to face or in the media. Kim can’t be the only one that cares about how they play.

 

[KnoxLikeUs]

You need her to tell you what you’re seeing in games? You practice how you play. So I have no reason to believe anything being said about practices being perfectly executed; and then in games it is breaking down. It is hysterically funny to hear a person think just because everyone doesn’t accept a coach throwing players under a bus while they seat themselves on a pedestal means they need to baby players. These players would be D1 players without being coached by CKC.
The post you made is as baseless as many I’ve seen and that says a lot. I don’t even know what point you were trying to make. It the coach making excuses… so what are you actually saying? All I’m getting from your statement is it is the media’s fault she is reprimanding players after a 45 point win and keeps avoiding the real issue which is addressing the flaws in her system coming from a DII school to a D1 P4 program.

She’s said they are executing these adjustments in practices just not games. So as a coach it is her duty to point out that they can do it it’s just not translating right now. She’s asked questions by our media that aren’t exactly thought provoking so why should she delve any further with her answers? These players have to mature & play smarter & be willing to take criticism. You think Geno babies his players? Pat never used lace gloves with hers. They need to hear the truth to improve. Whether that’s face to face or in the media. Kim can’t be the only one that cares about how they play.

 

[VolTenn25]

You need her to tell you what you’re seeing in games? You practice how you play. So I have no reason to believe anything being said about practices being perfectly executed; and then in games it is breaking down. It is hysterically funny to hear a person think just because everyone doesn’t accept a coach throwing players under a bus while they seat themselves on a pedestal means they need to baby players. These players would be D1 players without being coached by CKC.
The post you made is as baseless as many I’ve seen and that says a lot. I don’t even know what point you were trying to make. It the coach making excuses… so what are you actually saying? All I’m getting from your statement is it is the media’s fault she is reprimanding players after a 45 point win and keeps avoiding the real issue which is addressing the flaws in her system coming from a DII school to a D1 P4 program.

I’m not surprised you only see what you wanna see and hear what you wanna hear. YOU ARE the one that seems to think the SEC isn’t a gauntlet of a conference. Lol. So no one should take you seriously for one second anyway.

 

[KnoxLikeUs]

Again, another post with no substance. The coach and the system has been exposed so glorify whatever makes you feel comfortable.

I’m not surprised you only see what you wanna see and hear what you wanna hear. YOU ARE the one that seems to think the SEC isn’t a gauntlet of a conference. Lol. So no one should take you seriously for one second anyway.

 

[LVBB_Legacy]

I looked up at the scoreboard one time last night and noticed that 37 of the 50 field goals attempted by the Lady Vols around the middle of the 3rd quarter were 3 point shots.

That will not work against good teams. The lack of production inside the arc portends bad results when the other team's players are better matched athletically than Southern Illinois' players.

 

[lvocd]

She’s said they are executing these adjustments in practices just not games. So as a coach it is her duty to point out that they can do it it’s just not translating right now. She’s asked questions by our media that aren’t exactly thought provoking so why should she delve any further with her answers? These players have to mature & play smarter & be willing to take criticism. You think Geno babies his players? Pat never used lace gloves with hers. They need to hear the truth to improve. Whether that’s face to face or in the media. Kim can’t be the only one that cares about how they play.

Something I found interesting recently.

During an interview (can't remember which), Kim recently mentioned that before a game -- a game she said "going into it offense was going to be our focus" -- she had given Jaida Civil a points goal. She wanted Civil to focus on getting to the rim and scoring more. But Jaida had told her, "Nope, I'm just going to get rebounds. I'm just going to get rebounds."

Kim then remarked, "That is a selfless player. That is a player that just wants to make sure she gets extra possessions for her team. I do think she did a really good job of getting to the rim with ease, making the right play, hitting some shots. I thought it was good for her."

Then at some point I remember Kim saying (paraphrasing) Civil is here to score the ball and needs to have confidence in her role on offense.

Anyway, all that to say that I found it interesting that Jaida felt like she could tell the coach what her individual game plan was instead of the coach's plan for her to get to the rim and score. Hearing about that exchange made me wonder if Kim could possibly be giving the players TOO much autonomy. A certain amount is good and healthy. But it can go too far.

Anyone else have thoughts on that?

 

[VolTenn25]

Something I found interesting recently.

During an interview (can't remember which), Kim recently mentioned that before a game -- a game she said "going into it offense was going to be our focus" -- she had given Jaida Civil a points goal. She wanted Civil to focus on getting to the rim and scoring more. But Jaida had told her, "Nope, I'm just going to get rebounds. I'm just going to get rebounds."

Kim then remarked, "That is a selfless player. That is a player that just wants to make sure she gets extra possessions for her team. I do think she did a really good job of getting to the rim with ease, making the right play, hitting some shots. I thought it was good for her."

Then at some point I remember Kim saying (paraphrasing) Civil is here to score the ball and needs to have confidence in her role on offense.

Anyway, all that to say that I found it interesting that Jaida felt like she could tell the coach what her individual game plan was instead of the coach's plan for her to get to the rim and score. Hearing about that exchange made me wonder if Kim could possibly be giving the players TOO much autonomy. A certain amount is good and healthy. But it can go too far.

Anyone else have thoughts on that?

That’s fair. But also just hearing about Jaida from her coaches & teammates I think it was more about just being selfless & trying to help her team. But she is young so she has to learn how to balance those. I don’t think it was a form of disrespect there toward her coach. Kim said in a prior interview that Jaida thanks her everyday for the opportunity to play. They don’t make kids like that very much. They may have a little too much freedom, as you stated, but I think the coaches have to learn each team too. Last years team was a bit more buttoned up & chill for their coach. It’s a new very young team full of a lot of different personalities. Just have to figure out what works for each team best. I wouldn’t be surprised if her having to cut Ruby hasn’t mess with her a little mentally this season. It was evident she loved that kid. Hopefully this year of adversity makes them all stronger.

 

[chuckiepoo]

I wonder if it's less that players are selfishly trying "to get mine" than it is trying to "do what the coach has said the system is designed to do and that is to have players to play free and to take shots when they feel they have one."

You can't tell them for months that you want them to play free and then be mad when they do.

Objective Number One:

Score on this possession. How to create an open shot. Paint? Perimeter? Mine? If I nail a pass that should be an assist, am I crashing the board anyway?

 

[chuckiepoo]

Just read Kim's post game comments and she addressed 2 big problems:

1. Rebounding. Said players are just going up with one hand to tip the ball out, which another poster on here pointed that out. They need 2 hands
2. Not sharing the ball. Said there were multiple possessions where there was no pass or 1 pass and someone jacked it up.

She said they have been addressing this but its still an ingame problem. Hope she finds a way to get thru to them.

Woof. Sounds familiar…

 

[chuckiepoo]

I’m not surprised you only see what you wanna see and hear what you wanna hear. YOU ARE the one that seems to think the SEC isn’t a gauntlet of a conference. Lol. So no one should take you seriously for one second anyway.

Don’t sweat it. He’s auditioning for an opening as a negative recruiter… /s

 

[Volfan2012]

Something I found interesting recently.

During an interview (can't remember which), Kim recently mentioned that before a game -- a game she said "going into it offense was going to be our focus" -- she had given Jaida Civil a points goal. She wanted Civil to focus on getting to the rim and scoring more. But Jaida had told her, "Nope, I'm just going to get rebounds. I'm just going to get rebounds."

Kim then remarked, "That is a selfless player. That is a player that just wants to make sure she gets extra possessions for her team. I do think she did a really good job of getting to the rim with ease, making the right play, hitting some shots. I thought it was good for her."

Then at some point I remember Kim saying (paraphrasing) Civil is here to score the ball and needs to have confidence in her role on offense.

Anyway, all that to say that I found it interesting that Jaida felt like she could tell the coach what her individual game plan was instead of the coach's plan for her to get to the rim and score. Hearing about that exchange made me wonder if Kim could possibly be giving the players TOO much autonomy. A certain amount is good and healthy. But it can go too far.

Anyone else have thoughts on that?

Evidently individual game plans is certainly happening. Were seeing a lot of possessions with players taking unbelievable bad shots and some players with the right shot passing the ball. Don't know what is happening do know were going to need to come up with a better offensive game plan with players playing to their offensive strengths and not to their wish to shoot the ball.

Trying to drive through three four people happened several times in the game last night. When there are that many guarding you that is when you can kick out for a wide open three. We started doing that better in the third and fourth quarter and had for the most part the right people taking those shots. We have about five players that should be taking the three point shot. You put their stats together you get about 34 percent and 34 is a winning percentage for Tennessee in this system most of the time.

 

[Volfan2012]

I looked up at the scoreboard one time last night and noticed that 37 of the 50 field goals attempted by the Lady Vols around the middle of the 3rd quarter were 3 point shots.

That will not work against good teams. The lack of production inside the arc portends bad results when the other team's players are better matched athletically than Southern Illinois' players.

Our post player want to shoot threes and point guard usually has no one inside to throw to as many times I've seen post players on the perimeter instead of in the post. Mia Pauldo would be averaging 7 assists per game if she could get our post players to play like post players.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Evidently individual game plans is certainly happening. Were seeing a lot of possessions with players taking unbelievable bad shots and some players with the right shot passing the ball. Don't know what is happening do know were going to need to come up with a better offensive game plan with players playing to their offensive strengths and not to their wish to shoot the ball.

Trying to drive through three four people happened several times in the game last night. When there are that many guarding you that is when you can kick out for a wide open three. We started doing that better in the third and fourth quarter and had for the most part the right people taking those shots. We have about five players that should be taking the three point shot. You put their stats together you get about 34 percent and 34 is a winning percentage for Tennessee in this system most of the time.

Way too close toward center…

 

[RetroVol]

Kim said in a prior interview that Jaida thanks her everyday for the opportunity to play. They don’t make kids like that very much.

Love it. Sounds like a great kid, and you can't have too many of those on a team.

 

[alexvol]

I am an outlier but I am never crazy about a coach calling out her players in public like that. I suppose it has its place here and there but CKC has done this a few times now. I am actually curious about when this happened in the game. I saw a lot of passing and sharing.

Was the selfish getting mine when Nia took hit consecutive open threes?. Is when Pauldo took the lane and scored? Is it the misses at the rim by (many players)?

If something doesn't change in a hurry there will be multiple players on this squad that will hit the Transfer Portal....

 

[volsagain]

If something doesn't change in a hurry there will be multiple players on this squad that will hit the Transfer Portal....

Just like anywhere else if the money is right they want leave. Unless there not getting playing time. It's a different world now NIL changed everything.

 

[madtownvol]

Our post player want to shoot threes and point guard usually has no one inside to throw to as many times I've seen post players on the perimeter instead of in the post. Mia Pauldo would be averaging 7 assists per game if she could get our post players to play like post players.

But that is the whole point of a spread offense. We don't have traditional big body posts, like back in the day with Tamari Keys. The idea is that post players out on the perimeter open up space in the lane for drives and cuts. If your posts are consistent 3 point shooters, it is a hard system to defend. When teams dare you to take those shots and they are mostly clunkers, it is an easier system to defend. The offensive system, to my eye, is pretty well-conceived. But it is a live by the three die by the three system and that may not fit this line-up that well. So, that is why the defense has to come around. the LVs have not yet shown that they can shoot a decent % against better quality opponents so, they better learn to defend.