GAME THREAD: @ Oklahoma, Sunday, 2 pm EST, ESPN

[Volfan2012]

Kim improved Marshall 1st place finished in smaller conference division one.

Heupel fired without cause before dec 15 2025 it would be full amount

Drop to 75% fired Dec 15 2027

Drop to 50% fired Jan 31 2030

She probably Kim Caldwell could have coach at Marshall for a good long spell.
Probably ain't going to get her or different coach without giving them aa 4 to 5 year buyout option even if after April goes 50%

It standard for lots coaches to have 4 to 5 left on your contact.
Most recuits would stop coming if a sport a university is the only one coach don't get year add there contact every year.

The football coach has two seasons before Tennessee would 25% by fired him 2027 December

Wondering what percentage of other universities have loophole in women's basketball contact right off the bat 50%
Saving in Kim/ Kellie contact.
A giving football coach lot more time at 100% buyout.

Financially she made the right choice. Marshall 300 k a year would've had to coach for 10 years there including any raises to get what she has already made here and her buyout.

 

[RAVOL]

In the end of it all only 3 to 4 teams that will be in final 4 this year. Right now this year the vast difference between Uconn and Ucla and SC third is huge followed by Texas. Huge Talent gap in the game and everyone else is just playing out the string. Sure upsets can happen as a few teams have enough to get it done like LSU but im not sure anyone else does maybe Vandy because Blake's can pour in 40 . How I see it moving forward.

 

[glv98]

We don't want the ones who made appearances. We want the of the Ball.

creek, our resident folk philosopher laureate, lately I remember your statement upon the hiring of Kim Caldwell: This isn’t a longshot, this is a moonshot. Spot on.

In the end of it all only 3 to 4 teams that will be in final 4 this year.

Wow, just three teams in the final four? Won’t that leave them one short? Who gets the buy?

 

[RetroVol]

Retro, did you get a chance to see my post where I ask AI why the system fell out of favor and isnot used more widely? I was just curious your reaction to that and how you think those common sense factors have changed to allow it to be successful now.

I saw it. Sorry about the non-response. My experience with AIs suggest this is not a question where they will give a helpful response. Someone posted a Wikipedia article about this, and I thought it had a lot of stuff that made sense. AI would basically go out an mash up a summary of the most prevalent patterns in its token network. Or something like that. I have a mental concept of what AI does and some experience asking it lots of things, and this just seems like a question where your arguments pretty much cover it. Right now, the two biggest arguments against the system to me are the spread of talent on Final Four caliber teams compared to even mid-major, much less D2 teams, and the impact of TV timeouts and play reviews on any "wear 'em out" effrect of the platoon approach.

Frankly, my high skepticism is fighting my high curiosity and desire to see what this system can do. That's why I'm so disappointed that I don't think it got executed very well by this year's team. And maybe it's just not possible to execute it well, though last year's team seemed to do it better. But, even without seeing it done well, I'm starting to wonder if it can succeed as is to get the LVs where we'd like to see them go. My interest for now is focused on what Kim and her staff can do to pull this team together at the end of this season, then the effect this year has on portal and recruiting, including 2027 prospects, and finally to see what version she brings out next year. I have trouble imagining her abandoning the approach she has followed since she was a player in college. I also have trouble imagining that she won't change anything. And I have no idea what those changes might be.

 

[creekdipper]

I don't think I've seen anyone that expected a title in year two. The fanbase has been very patient....include the HW and KH eras and you must agree. This is why DW made a mistake handing the reigns to a high risk candidate. This was coach #3 after a legend. It needed to be right. It may still be, however it is not impatient to expect year 2 to be a positive confirmation that the program is headed up. It has been anything but that.

We needed a home run and instead got a suicide squeeze.

Results yet to be determined upon video review.

 

[RAVOL]

creek, our resident folk philosopher laureate, lately I remember your statement upon the hiring of Kim Caldwell: This isn’t a longshot, this is a moonshot. Spot on.

Wow, just three teams in the final four? Won’t that leave them one short? Who gets the buy?

Meant to say only 3 I believe have the goods to win it all maybe 4th like Texas

 

[glv98]

I saw it. Sorry about the non-response. My experience with AIs suggest this is not a question where they will give a helpful response. Someone posted a Wikipedia article about this, and I thought it had a lot of stuff that made sense. AI would basically go out an mash up a summary of the most prevalent patterns in its token network. Or something like that. I have a mental concept of what AI does and some experience asking it lots of things, and this just seems like a question where your arguments pretty much cover it. Right now, the two biggest arguments against the system to me are the spread of talent on Final Four caliber teams compared to even mid-major, much less D2 teams, and the impact of TV timeouts and play reviews on any "wear 'em out" effrect of the platoon approach.

Frankly, my high skepticism is fighting my high curiosity and desire to see what this system can do. That's why I'm so disappointed that I don't think it got executed very well by this year's team. And maybe it's just not possible to execute it well, though last year's team seemed to do it better. But, even without seeing it done well, I'm starting to wonder if it can succeed as is to get the LVs where we'd like to see them go. My interest for now is focused on what Kim and her staff can do to pull this team together at the end of this season, then the effect this year has on portal and recruiting, including 2027 prospects, and finally to see what version she brings out next year. I have trouble imagining her abandoning the approach she has followed since she was a player in college. I also have trouble imagining that she won't change anything. And I have no idea what those changes might be.

Yes, sorry it was wiki not AI even though it showed an AI logo at the top. And thanks a lot for your response.

I’m pretty crushed by the current situation, but agree there are some very interesting times coming up. She appears to have already made big changes in the offense and defensive approaches. Subbings changed some, but not as much. Of course we’ve been screaming for her to make changes, but I agree with you this system probably can’t be pulled apart like that and still work. Going to have to be all or nothing.

I think we also agree at this level, her system requires a very specialized set of 10 nearly interchangeable players. With player mobility what it currently is, imo occasionally hitting that player lottery may happen, but it’s hard to imagine it on a sustained basis. Just too hard to get and keep those particular players. The fact they whiffed so badly on player selection this year does not give comfort.

The current dilemma is exactly what Andrea Carter said: when you realize you don’t have the right players for your desired approach, it’s still your responsibility to fill the void with something that does work. Not pout until them square pegs squeeze themselves into them round holes.

Kim says players who come to her have to forget everything they ever learned about basketball. Like being in the Marines, break them down to build them up. Problem appears to be they got the breaking down part, the forgetting basketball part, but were unable to replace it with anything useful. Thus the confused mismash that got us in our current situation.

Seven of the last nine with more incoming, I never thought I’d live to see that day.!

 

[mudcat1973]

Financially she made the right choice. Marshall 300 k a year would've had to coach for 10 years there including any raises to get what she has already made here and her buyout.

Financially she made the right choice. Marshall 300 k a year would've had to coach for 10 years there including any raises to get what she has already made here and her buyout.

Part of the push back voting for the score act in us Congress
House and Senate members was coming by some saying why put limits on football nil opportunity.
When college football coach have large salary and buy outs.
All four four power conference supported the score act
and was lobbying Congress For it.

People supporting players NIL opportunities
Won that round of lobby us Congress

Wondering if football coaches would give some on there large salary contact if players and there representes gave some on national rules for NIL create more even playing field NIL Wise.?

 

[creekdipper]

Surprising myself to be defending Kim Caldwell (and looking out for the program), I think she needs at least two more seasons to give her a fair chance (barring a complete collapse). If she can kept her freshman class intact together with incoming top talent and strategic portal additions who address specific needs as role players, we may see her build a top ten team. We can see if team cohesion and leadership improves along with Kim's public relations skills. And we can see if weaknesses such as free throw shooting and the 100% effort in short burst demands that we were promised come to fruition. Above all, we need to see Kim's willingness to adjust as needed (even as she strives to repeat her success with her system that she believes in so fervently).

I just read a featured article in the current Sports Illustrated about the recent rise of Vandy wcbb. While not a big fan of Ralph or SI, there were some interesting observations. First, it emphasized her six-year plan that she sold to the Vandy AD, advising the patience would be required. But there was another passage that stood out:

The same attention to detail behind all of her planning can also lead to obsessive internalizing.

"She's very introspective," Garrick says. Which meant that when Ralph saw a chemistry issue among her players, Garrick says, "She didn't look at them, she looked at herself. Like, 'The example I'm setting must be a little askew, and so how do I fix that?' "

(Emma Baccelliera, Sports Illustrated, Mar. 2026)

Now, realizing that this was in part a fluff piece, there's some value in the attitude ascribed to Ralph., imo.

We fans might need expectation adjustment too. White was overselling his expectations for immediate success, especially given the strength of the conference, and he likely wanted to blunt criticism of his hire while expressing confidence in Caldwell. Maybe some fans bought the pitch, especially with the high school recruits she and her staff landed. But all of today's elite coaches required time and MVP-level talent to reach the top and ensure an elite pipeline that was sustainable. By her fourth season, we should know whether the experiment is working and the program is approaching elite status or if Kim is just keeping the boat afloat.

 

[VolFan_stuck_in_the_901]

Surprising myself to be defending Kim Caldwell (and looking out for the program), I think she needs at least two more seasons to give her a fair chance (barring a complete collapse). If she can kept her freshman class intact together with incoming top talent and strategic portal additions who address specific needs as role players, we may see her build a top ten team. We can see if team cohesion and leadership improves along with Kim's public relations skills. And we can see if weaknesses such as free throw shooting and the 100% effort in short burst demands that we were promised come to fruition. Above all, we need to see Kim's willingness to adjust as needed (even as she strives to repeat her success with her system that she believes in so fervently).

I just read a featured article in the current Sports Illustrated about the recent rise of Vandy wcbb. While not a big fan of Ralph or SI, there were some interesting observations. First, it emphasized her six-year plan that she sold to the Vandy AD, advising the patience would be required. But there was another passage that stood out:

The same attention to detail behind all of her planning can also lead to obsessive internalizing.

"She's very introspective," Garrick says. Which meant that when Ralph saw a chemistry issue among her players, Garrick says, "She didn't look at them, she looked at herself. Like, 'The example I'm setting must be a little askew, and so how do I fix that?' "

(Emma Baccelliera, Sports Illustrated, Mar. 2026)

Now, realizing that this was in part a fluff piece, there's some value in the attitude ascribed to Ralph., imo.

We fans might need expectation adjustment too. White was overselling his expectations for immediate success, especially given the strength of the conference, and he likely wanted to blunt criticism of his hire while expressing confidence in Caldwell. Maybe some fans bought the pitch, especially with the high school recruits she and her staff landed. But all of today's elite coaches required time and MVP-level talent to reach the top and ensure an elite pipeline that was sustainable. By her fourth season, we should know whether the experiment is working and the program is approaching elite status or if Kim is just keeping the boat afloat.

Vandy women's basketball isn't even close to the historic standard and expectations of the Tennessee Lady Vols. She would've gotten six years at that program regardless

 

[KTrain]

In the end of it all only 3 to 4 teams that will be in final 4 this year. Right now this year the vast difference between Uconn and Ucla and SC third is huge followed by Texas. Huge Talent gap in the game and everyone else is just playing out the string. Sure upsets can happen as a few teams have enough to get it done like LSU but im not sure anyone else does maybe Vandy because Blake's can pour in 40 . How I see it moving forward.

Yep its almost got back to when Tennessee and about 4 others where top lock down programs. You could almost pick with certainty who would be in the Final 4 only caveat was, is if they bracketed 2 of the 4 in same early bracket.
I remember when it was AIAW and what we call Power 4 teams were hardly interested in women's BB. Teams like Old Dominion , Louisiana Tech, Delta State and Immaculate were top of game maybe Notre Dame and Southern Cal, Rutgers who won the final AIAW with Vivian Stringer. There were hardly any African American women playing for some reason other than a few teams then, maybe high schools didn't offer WBB in some places, I know my high school didn't.. It has definitely changed since the early 1970's when Pat was coach, Manager, cheerleader, clothes washer, taxi etc...

 

[spojo13]

I think Vandy was at a completely different level of a program when Ralph took over to what we were. They were almost dead last in the conference under White and not making the tournament. I’d think any AD would understand it might take patience to build it back up again, but UT wasn’t anywhere near the shape Vandy was in. For all of Kellie’s faults, she still had them in the upper tier of the SEC standings and made the sweet sixteen 2 out of the 4 years they had a postseason. The whole reason for a change was that Kellie couldn’t get us beyond that level. Kim met the same postseason level last year which was great in her first year, but it’s not like this program was a basement dweller when she took over. The goal for any coaching change should be to improve the program from where it was. I can’t say so far that Kim has done that this year.

 

[Lucy]

Yup. Didn't see the blue font that wasn't there. I am sure it was clear to you, but, surprise, sarcasm fails in forum posts. I would have realized you had abandoned facts in favor of just heaping abuse. Not my bad. Did you spot the second error?

Perhaps the $100k and three lotto tickets would have been further evidence the post was a sarcastic take on hiring a very inexperienced, unproven coach and giving them a huge, unsupported raise along with a very rich buy out package.
I would assume you are going to say she would not have come to UT because she was making more than that at her one year at Marshall? Or perhaps I misspelled lotto?
But, please, go ahead.* I can’t wait!*
* These sentences are meant as irony, which apparently is indeed dead.

 

[madtownvol]

False.

So, he did not offer to coach the team for free as well......

 

[VintageFan]

I remember last season when everyone kept saying just wait till these new players get here next year. Told ad nauseam that all Kim needed to take the next step were the right players for her. We’re back to that same refrain again it seems. It’s just now we don’t need cheetahs and athletes for next year, but good ole lower level, nothing but heart players that play with all the effort. In my estimation from other’s beliefs on here that this system just needs 10 very unique, skilled, special players to make it work at this level. That’s all it will take!

But just like it’s not all on the coaching, it’s not all on the players either. Just bringing in new players isn’t going to magically fix this mess. Everyone needs to understand that both coaching and players need adjustments. If someone has a bad attitude, sure tell them to look elsewhere. If the system is not bringing out the best in what we manage to get through recruiting, then adjust the system. It’s not an either or proposition. Both need to be thoroughly reconstructed.

Kim knew exactly the kind of players she needed to make her system work at Glenville and Marshall and exactly how to get them. But I doubt she understood how trying to replicate all that in the SEC would be extremely difficult, if not impossible. In many ways her expectations might have been as unrealistic as many of the LV fans.

A friend of mine was having great success in local Friday night, small stakes, poker games. He developed a system of play that won him $50 to $100 every week so he decided to try the poker room at a well-known casino and play for higher stakes. In his first visit he almost broke even. In his second– and last – visit he got his clock cleaned. The Peter Principle exists in endeavors outside the corporate world.

The names of sports coaches who revolutionized how the games were played – Camp, Rockne, Wooden, Wilkinson, Summitt, etc. are on the Hall of Fame lists. It's possible that, with the right adjustments, Kim can make her system work well enough in the SEC to at least call it a success. Or she might be given enough time at the helm to ditch the system and use her undeniable talent and ambition to adapt her coaching style to achieve better than mediocre results as she grows as a D-1 coach.

I could ask ChatGPT to make a list of the current top WBB coaches and how many years of D-1 coaching experience they had before they reached an NCAA Final Four as a head coach. But I don't have to. Because I know the answer is a lot more than three.

 

[VintageFan]

Surprising myself to be defending Kim Caldwell (and looking out for the program), I think she needs at least two more seasons to give her a fair chance (barring a complete collapse). If she can kept her freshman class intact together with incoming top talent and strategic portal additions who address specific needs as role players, we may see her build a top ten team. We can see if team cohesion and leadership improves along with Kim's public relations skills. And we can see if weaknesses such as free throw shooting and the 100% effort in short burst demands that we were promised come to fruition. Above all, we need to see Kim's willingness to adjust as needed (even as she strives to repeat her success with her system that she believes in so fervently).

I just read a featured article in the current Sports Illustrated about the recent rise of Vandy wcbb. While not a big fan of Ralph or SI, there were some interesting observations. First, it emphasized her six-year plan that she sold to the Vandy AD, advising the patience would be required. But there was another passage that stood out:

The same attention to detail behind all of her planning can also lead to obsessive internalizing.

"She's very introspective," Garrick says. Which meant that when Ralph saw a chemistry issue among her players, Garrick says, "She didn't look at them, she looked at herself. Like, 'The example I'm setting must be a little askew, and so how do I fix that?' "

(Emma Baccelliera, Sports Illustrated, Mar. 2026)

Now, realizing that this was in part a fluff piece, there's some value in the attitude ascribed to Ralph., imo.

We fans might need expectation adjustment too. White was overselling his expectations for immediate success, especially given the strength of the conference, and he likely wanted to blunt criticism of his hire while expressing confidence in Caldwell. Maybe some fans bought the pitch, especially with the high school recruits she and her staff landed. But all of today's elite coaches required time and MVP-level talent to reach the top and ensure an elite pipeline that was sustainable. By her fourth season, we should know whether the experiment is working and the program is approaching elite status or if Kim is just keeping the boat afloat.

The across the board renaissance in sports programs at Vanderbilt has an architect who, for some reason, never gets enough credit. (Hopefully it's not because she is a Black woman!) Candice Storey Lee was hired as AD in 2020 and Vandy's rise since then has been meteoric.

Anchor Up: Candice Storey Lee Leads Vanderbilt Athletics to Victory

 

[Rooster1]

I think Vandy was at a completely different level of a program when Ralph took over to what we were. They were almost dead last in the conference under White and not making the tournament. I’d think any AD would understand it might take patience to build it back up again, but UT wasn’t anywhere near the shape Vandy was in. For all of Kellie’s faults, she still had them in the upper tier of the SEC standings and made the sweet sixteen 2 out of the 4 years they had a postseason. The whole reason for a change was that Kellie couldn’t get us beyond that level. Kim met the same postseason level last year which was great in her first year, but it’s not like this program was a basement dweller when she took over. The goal for any coaching change should be to improve the program from where it was. I can’t say so far that Kim has done that this year.

I thought this was a well thought out response with merit to the points made.

 

[LVBB_Legacy]

The across the board renaissance in sports programs at Vanderbilt has an architect who, for some reason, never gets enough credit. (Hopefully it's not because she is a Black woman!) Candice Storey Lee was hired as AD in 2020 and Vandy's rise since then has been meteoric.

Anchor Up: Candice Storey Lee Leads Vanderbilt Athletics to Victory

It also doesn't hurt that they have many ultra-wealthy alumni to fund their NIL collective.

 

[RAVOL]

Yep its almost got back to when Tennessee and about 4 others where top lock down programs. You could almost pick with certainty who would be in the Final 4 only caveat was, is if they bracketed 2 of the 4 in same early bracket.
I remember when it was AIAW and what we call Power 4 teams were hardly interested in women's BB. Teams like Old Dominion , Louisiana Tech, Delta State and Immaculate were top of game maybe Notre Dame and Southern Cal, Rutgers who won the final AIAW with Vivian Stringer. There were hardly any African American women playing for some reason other than a few teams then, maybe high schools didn't offer WBB in some places, I know my high school didn't.. It has definitely changed since the early 1970's when Pat was coach, Manager, cheerleader, clothes washer, taxi etc...

The reason patience is needed with Kim is if you want to enter back into elite status like we do it has to be through High school development of Elite talent and good talent that mix good together sprinkled with Portal players. Only problem does Kim in today's world with our fan base have the 5 years it takes. We gave Kellie the time and she failed at high school recruiting. Holly didn't but could never get past elite 8 early then slipped to sweet 16. I don't know if Kim is longterm or not but if TN or any program wants to enter Elite status this is how. We have good freshman class now playing but no one elite. Can Edward's be that first Elite player under Kim she has everything you want to be Elite. Have to stack class after class and again Portal pickup sprinkled in. Now of course next year we will have more Portal players than you would like but we have to get right ones committed to Lady Vol Brand. Its a great conversation. Peace unto You. In CHRIST Alone

 

[Amb3096]

The reason patience is needed with Kim is if you want to enter back into elite status like we do it has to be through High school development of Elite talent and good talent that mix good together sprinkled with Portal players. Only problem does Kim in today's world with our fan base have the 5 years it takes. We gave Kellie the time and she failed at high school recruiting. Holly didn't but could never get past elite 8 early then slipped to sweet 16. I don't know if Kim is longterm or not but if TN or any program wants to enter Elite status this is how. We have good freshman class now playing but no one elite. Can Edward's be that first Elite player under Kim she has everything you want to be Elite. Have to stack class after class and again Portal pickup sprinkled in. Now of course next year we will have more Portal players than you would like but we have to get right ones committed to Lady Vol Brand. Its a great conversation. Peace unto You. In CHRIST Alone

Edwards would need to be an instant first team AA level player and/or surrounded by a proven supporting cast that just needs that extra piece of the puzzle for them to be in the NC conversation. Expecting her to be able to save the program without fixing the rest of the team dynamics is an exercise in futility.

 

[glv98]

Edwards would need to be an instant first team AA level player and/or surrounded by a proven supporting cast that just needs that extra piece of the puzzle for them to be in the NC conversation. Expecting her to be able to save the program without fixing the rest of the team dynamics is an exercise in futility.

And what are the odds of getting quality supporting cast from the portal after a the public meltdown this season has been? Who wants to sign on for this? Damage has been taken on.

 

[1reVOLver]

@glv98, I believe you called the third-quarter substitutions in real time. Claude agrees with you.

Claude says: The side-by-side really highlights the contrast: Tennessee had 42 sub events to Oklahoma's 28. Oklahoma kept things simple with mostly 1-1s and 2-2s while Caldwell was churning through every configuration. That Q3 column for Tennessee is brutal — 13 events including four rapid-fire 1-1s in the final minute.

Tennessee Lady Vols Substitution Patterns
vs Oklahoma - Chronological

	TN	OKLA
Q1	8:55 3-3 6:26 5-5 4:59 5-5 3:02 5-5 2:12 5-5	6:26 3-3 4:59 2-2 3:48 2-2 2:12 1-1
Q2	10:00 1-1 7:46 3-3 6:34 5-5 5:26 2-2 4:59 1-1 3:50 3-3 2:49 4-4 2:28 1-1 1:22 2-2 0:00 1-1	10:00 3-3 7:46 3-3 5:26 1-1 3:50 1-1 3:06 1-1 2:49 2-2 2:28 1-1 1:22 3-3 0:00 1-1
Q3	9:17 1-1 7:46 2-2 7:26 1-1 6:59 3-3 5:58 2-2 4:26 2-2 4:00 4-4 3:33 2-2 1:47 4-4 0:49 1-1 0:16 1-1 0:08 1-1 0:03 1-1	7:26 2-2 5:58 1-1 5:09 1-1 4:57 1-1 1:47 4-4 0:34 3-3 0:16 2-2 0:08 2-2 0:03 2-2
Q4	9:10 1-1 9:00 2-2 7:29 5-5 6:32 1-1 6:11 4-4 4:46 2-2 3:37 3-3 2:55 3-3 0:48 1-1 0:46 1-1 0:29 1-1 0:27 1-1 0:26 1-1 0:22 1-1	10:00 2-2 7:29 1-1 6:40 2-2 4:46 1-1 3:37 2-2 0:27 1-1

Sadly, this brought to mind one of my favorite Ernest Hemingway quotes. I believe it is from his memoir, A Moveable Feast.

“Don’t confuse motion with action.”

 

[Amb3096]

And what are the odds of getting quality supporting cast from the portal after a the public meltdown this season has been? Who wants to sign on for this? Damage has been taken on.

Exactly. This is for our resident board cheerleader who thinks that Edwards will be the program savior. I think the main thing is to keep a solid core of returning players (basically the freshmen, Latham, and Cooper if she can recommit herself to being a team player), some portal pieces that can be supporting cast and without huge egos, and a retooled approach to managing the team.

 

[1reVOLver]

Vandy women's basketball isn't even close to the historic standard and expectations of the Tennessee Lady Vols.

And yet, despite the lack of our superb pedigree, they have achieved notable progress while we are mired in a state of pretty good at best under three coaches. The article in The Athletic pointed out the disconnect between our historic standards and our expectations.

 

[RAVOL]

Edwards would need to be an instant first team AA level player and/or surrounded by a proven supporting cast that just needs that extra piece of the puzzle for them to be in the NC conversation. Expecting her to be able to save the program without fixing the rest of the team dynamics is an exercise in futility.

Who said she had to that next year. I said to get there you have to stack classes of Elite players and really good players. And it takes time period.