GAME THREAD: Miss St @ #15 Tennessee, Knoxville, Thursday, 1/29, 6:30 pm EST, SECN+

#703
#703
madtownvol said:
I need to stop but....

I think this whiplash subbing is more than just a part of the "system." It is an ego project.

It brings a lot of attention to CKC's distinctive coaching style, "wow, look at her, making all those hockey subs. No one else dares to do that!!!!" {which is what every announcer says every game) and more to the point, it probably gives her and her staff a sense of "active coaching" and control - wow, we are really exerting our influence on the game!!!

I think as she grows into the job, she will learn that less is more. A coach needs to step back in the game, let the players take control and responsibility, which also requires that they understand their roles and responsibilities in the game plan. And that is hard to do when players are cycling out every 2 minutes, playing with seemingly random groupings and given the generic instructions of "go out there and play as hard as you can for 2 minutes! ["But play hard doing what?" may be the lingering question on the players minds].
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There is some truth in this. But, the idea you described is that they play very hard. Many of them do not. Their effort in getting back after press break or turnovers is not that of a team that plays very hard. That raises lots of questions.
 
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#704
#704
madtownvol said:
I need to stop but....
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Not the worst idea... (I'm teasing here. I appreciate the candor!)

madtownvol said:
It is an ego project.
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It's possible and civil to disagree with a coach's decisions without assassinating their character based your imagination's renderings of their mental state.


madtownvol said:
It brings a lot of attention to CKC's distinctive coaching style, "wow, look at her, making all those hockey subs. No one else dares to do that!!!!" {which is what every announcer says every game) and more to the point, it probably gives her and her staff a sense of "active coaching" and control - wow, we are really exerting our influence on the game!!!
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Again... projecting thoughts into the heads of people likely doing their very best in order to make them look bad. Not cool.


madtownvol said:
A coach needs to step back in the game, let the players take control and responsibility, which also requires that they understand their roles and responsibilities in the game plan.
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And this is EXACTLY what Kim has said she strives for! She has talked about letting players play through and learn from their mistakes. Maybe she isn't accomplishing that goal with this level of athlete. Maybe she isn't even taking the approach you think she should, though I suspect their is not a person on this board who really knows much about what happens when Kim meets with her staff, or with players, or in practices. But at least give her credit for having the same goal you just espoused.


I don't mean to be disrespectful, @madtownvol, 'cause I'm truly glad that the Lady Vols have support. And I know we all have our imaginings about what is happening in the minds of coaches and players. But I'd prefer to see a little more respect than running someone down for what we imagine is in their head, even on a fan forum.

And, even as I write this, I'm questioning how scrupulously I've stayed on the right side of the line I'm drawing. I know I certainly have my own theories about what's going on in some cases, and some of them revolve around mental states. I try to stick to what can be observed -- behaviors, what is said, statistics, but... If this is a case where I should be attending to the beam in my own eye, then all I can say is that I'm going to try and be more aware and do better.
 
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#708
#708
glv98 said:
About the effect of having her baby, you are completely wrong. Hell, she barely laid down to deliver that child and headed straight back to work. She made it known she didn’t plan the pregnancy and she made sure it was as little a factor as possible the whole time.

As far as being over her head, I don’t think we know that yet. I think the struggle right now is just learning the rhythm and pace of this level of play which she is relatively new at. Also working to learn communication with athletes on this level. She definitely deserves some more time to figure it out.
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She may have wanted to prove that it wasn’t a factor, but you’d have to be naive to think it has no effect whatsoever. This coming from a mother of three who managed a business. It is HARD. Now imagine having your first child right when you takeover a big-time program like Tennessee with no D1 head coaching experience. I’m not saying Kim isn’t a good coach. She is, but she’s soft, and probably not ready for this moment. We’ll see.
 
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#711
#711
Proud Army Wife said:
I’m going to be straight up here, and idc if this rubs people the wrong way. I think Kim is in over her head. She has good intentions, but she’s not cut-throat enough to get the Lady Vols back to the promised land. I thought the first red flag was planted when she announced her pregnancy only a few months into taking the job. Not great timing to take over a storied program and start your family. I could be completely wrong, but that’s just my feel on the situation.
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I think there is more PAW in Kim than which you’re giving her credit. 😉🤙🏼🧡
 
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#712
#712
madtownvol said:
I need to stop but....

I think this whiplash subbing is more than just a part of the "system." It is an ego project.

It brings a lot of attention to CKC's distinctive coaching style, "wow, look at her, making all those hockey subs. No one else dares to do that!!!!" {which is what every announcer says every game) and more to the point, it probably gives her and her staff a sense of "active coaching" and control - wow, we are really exerting our influence on the game!!!
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Wow is right. That’s a pretty cynical take you’ve got there, madtown. 😳 I don’t think Kim Caldwell is that sh!tty of a person, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
 
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#714
#714
glv98 said:
This makes sense, bc how else to explain the bizarre decision to start Nya. But please let it not be true. Not Mia of all players.

I know it’s crazy because she’s just a freshman, but I was really hoping Mia is the spiritual heartbeat of the team. She always seems locked in and seems like such a happy, eager warrior. She’s the last player I would think would be loosey gooses with game prep. If so, this team really really has heart problems.

Also punishment by not starting on this team is merely lip service. Starting has been downplayed so much and with the return of chaos subbing, whoever didn’t start was guaranteed to go into the game very early on. Sitting at least a full half would have been actual punishment.
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A la Candace.
 
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#715
#715
lvocd said:
Wow is right. That’s a pretty cynical take you’ve got there, madtown. 😳 I don’t think Kim Caldwell is that sh!tty of a person, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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Ouch!! Getting tag teamed by you and Retrovol!! WHAM!BAM!BODYSLAM!

No Más !!!!

I should have chosen my words better-- The more appopriate statement is that CKC is "ego-invested" in her system.

Wait! y'all say, How dare I even think that !!!! That is still character assassination!!!

Let's chill a bit. From Day 1, CKC has been on a mission to prove that her system will work at this level. Just ask John Adams (if he ever recovers from CKC's death stare).

When things have gone bad and the pundits and fans question the mass subbing etc., she has doubled down on the system.

Her commitment to the system is really apparent.

You can compare to Dawn, Geno, Vic, Kym Mulkey and other recognized "elite" coaches where no one talks about their "system'. It is about their general skill as coaches and they find ways to get the most out of their players and so on.

I am confident that CKC will get to this rarefied level over time but right now "the system," for better or worse, is integral to her coaching identity. Oh, hear that? Those are the siren's from Retrovol's thought police unit. I don't have much time before I am taken away for "correct thought" programming.

But, my saying that CKC is ego-invested in her system does not mean I am implying that she is a "****** person." That is a big freakin' leap.
 
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#716
#716
Proud Army Wife said:
I’m going to be straight up here, and idc if this rubs people the wrong way. I think Kim is in over her head. She has good intentions, but she’s not cut-throat enough to get the Lady Vols back to the promised land. I thought the first red flag was planted when she announced her pregnancy only a few months into taking the job. Not great timing to take over a storied program and start your family. I could be completely wrong, but that’s just my feel on the situation.
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Yeah you’re totally wrong. Keep it short and sweet. She had a kid, which is life. It did not hinder anything when it came to her coaching. Hell if I recall she didn’t even stop coaching a full week. Was it in ideal situation no, but at the same time I think that’s unfair point you’re trying to make. I don’t think she is over her head, but I do think sometimes she is too stubborn which can and will be a hindrance going forward if she is not willing to make a change and stay that way for the remainder of the season. If she is willing to revert back to less substitutions and that dreadful press that allows teams to make easy shots, and have our defense all in chaotic sorts then we truly have a shot of beating most teams. That’s what cost us the Miss State game.
 
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#717
#717
madtownvol said:
Ouch!! Getting tag teamed by you and Retrovol!! WHAM!BAM!BODYSLAM!

No Más !!!!

I should have chosen my words better-- The more appopriate statement is that CKC is "ego-invested" in her system.

Wait! y'all say, How dare I even think that !!!! That is still character assassination!!!

Let's chill a bit. From Day 1, CKC has been on a mission to prove that her system will work at this level. Just ask John Adams (if he ever recovers from CKC's death stare).

When things have gone bad and the pundits and fans question the mass subbing etc., she has doubled down on the system.

Her commitment to the system is really apparent.

You can compare to Dawn, Geno, Vic, Kym Mulkey and other recognized "elite" coaches where no one talks about their "system'. It is about their general skill as coaches and they find ways to get the most out of their players and so on.

I am confident that CKC will get there over time but right now "the system," for better or worse, is integral to her coaching identity. Oh, hear that? Those are the siren's from Retrovol's thought police unit. I don't have much time before I am taken away for "correct thought" programming.

But, my saying that CKC is ego-invested in her system does not mean I am implying that she is a "****** person." That is a big freakin' leap.
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IMG_4828.jpeg
 
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#718
#718
Mr.Vol2U said:
Yeah you’re totally wrong. Keep it short and sweet. She had a kid, which is life. It did not hinder anything when it came to her coaching. Hell if I recall she didn’t even stop coaching a full week. Was it in ideal situation no, but at the same time I think that’s unfair point you’re trying to make. I don’t think she is over her head, but I do think sometimes she is too stubborn which can and will be a hindrance going forward if she is not willing to make a change and stay that way for the remainder of the season. If she is willing to revert back to less substitutions and that dreadful press that allows teams to make easy shots, and have our defense all in chaotic sorts then we truly have a shot of beating most teams. That’s what cost us the Miss State game.
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IMG_5623.gif
 
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#719
#719
RetroVol said:
Not the worst idea... (I'm teasing here. I appreciate the candor!)


It's possible and civil to disagree with a coach's decisions without assassinating their character based your imagination's renderings of their mental state.



Again... projecting thoughts into the heads of people likely doing their very best in order to make them look bad. Not cool.



And this is EXACTLY what Kim has said she strives for! She has talked about letting players play through and learn from their mistakes. Maybe she isn't accomplishing that goal with this level of athlete. Maybe she isn't even taking the approach you think she should, though I suspect their is not a person on this board who really knows much about what happens when Kim meets with her staff, or with players, or in practices. But at least give her credit for having the same goal you just espoused.


I don't mean to be disrespectful, @madtownvol, 'cause I'm truly glad that the Lady Vols have support. And I know we all have our imaginings about what is happening in the minds of coaches and players. But I'd prefer to see a little more respect than running someone down for what we imagine is in their head, even on a fan forum.

And, even as I write this, I'm questioning how scrupulously I've stayed on the right side of the line I'm drawing. I know I certainly have my own theories about what's going on in some cases, and some of them revolve around mental states. I try to stick to what can be observed -- behaviors, what is said, statistics, but... If this is a case where I should be attending to the beam in my own eye, then all I can say is that I'm going to try and be more aware and do better.
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Hi Retrovol,

First, I do share your value in wanting to keep the discourse on this board civil and not making disparaging or demeaning comments about players or coaches.

Given that alignment, I am not going to even mention the thought policing quality of your post. Promise, not a word shall I say about "thought policing."

But since you raised the issue of whether you have stayed on the right side of the line you are drawing (for everyone else apparently), let's consider your accusation that I have committed character assassination toward CKC. The definition of this action is:

Character assassination is the deliberate, sustained effort to destroy an individual's reputation, credibility, and public image through slander, rumors, and manipulation of facts.

Your post is premised on your imagination's rendering of my mental state and intentions. [If I were mentioning thought policing, I would suggest that you should at least write yourself up for a violation but since I am most defiinitely not mentioning "thought policing," it is a moot issue.]

In my defense, I am pretty confident that if you took a poll of informed fans of the program and ask the question "is CKC very committed to proving her system will work at this level," I think the vast majority would vote "yes." There is an abundance of evidence to support that claim she is vested in her system and that it is a big component of her coaching identity.

Let's consider your decree a bit more closely - only comment on what we can directly observe with no inferences about what people are thinking or feeling. That normative guideline will necessitate a pretty signficant change in the board's culture.

To toe your "line," we can no longer write something like "Coach X was really angry at player Y for not getting back on defense." Nope, by your decree, we can only state "Coach X said a series of words at a loud volume and shook his arm with his fist closed fist. Soon after, player Y sat down on the bench and proceded to throw a towel on the ground."

I do think it is important to be consistent with your standards. So I assume you will be monitoring all future posts on this board and censuring all those that are not sufficiently "objective."

Have fun!!

[Oops sorry! I meant "use your cheek muscles to lift the edges of your mouth so that your front teeth are exposed.]
 
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#723
#723
creekdipper said:
She gave the staff an ultimatum that she be allowed to maintain her playing style identity in order to achieve supremacy on the court.
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Player being upfrort with what they expect.
Helps getting them and future team.
From Getting into chemistry issues.
 
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#724
#724
KnoxLikeUs said:
Basic 3rd grade reading comprehension… virtual learning available. Join our session tomorrow morning. You need it.
🍊
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Take another look and what you wrote:
"Let me be clear.. every SEC game Tennessee has loss [sic] since 2024 has been due to the system."
So, it wasn't the players, it was the system.
Ipso facto, if the players were in a different/better system, they wouldn't have lost. Simple logic. You said it, don't run from it, own up to it.
 
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#725
#725
DarkPhoenix said:
I don’t look at 10-6 as a good record, because that’s saying they went 4-6 in those last 10 games, that’s not acceptable in my opinion.
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I think that is where we are after that unacceptable loss to Miss St. It will keep the NCAA streak alive and this will go down more than likely as another season where we did not move the needle upwards to where we hoped to be. Year three has to move it or we will again be in the start of a reset again.
 
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