GAME THREAD: @ LSU, Thursday, 6 pm EST, ESPN

[knoxvol52]

Tennessee lost by 43…

Refs....

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

Now that's its been several hours, I have to say I don't think this team has completely quit, yet they are lazy. We're lacking defensively intensity and of course our athleticism + plus scoring was non existent (except Civil).

LSU literally showed our girls what they want to be but they aren't there yet. Like I said, Fulwiley had one of her better games last night all season and you couldn't take smile off her grill due to our defense taking a backseat. She, Williams, and both Johnsons blew by us on every transaction play just about and Fulwiley stayed in her comfort zone as she stayed right! Their guards simply outperformed ours and they wasn't made to feel uncomfortable one time. THEY ALSO SHARED THE BALL, WAS PATIENT ON OFFENSIVE POSSESSIONS AND NOT PLAYING HERO(INE) BASKETBALL (Cooper I'm talking to you basically).

Overall I'm glad this month of February is done. This has probably been one of the most brutal stretch runs in Lady Vols in program history. My only hope now, while it may not be the rest of this season, but going forward this will make our team better for the future and recognize we can half-ass our performance on the court. In order to beat the best we have to play a strong and determined 40 minutes all game, every game.

We can only pray march is kinder but it doesn’t look promising ! Hope i’m wrong and will GLADY eat all the crow I can

 

[Volfan2012]

Overall game stats were good in this one just that shooting 38 percent does not beat 47 percent on the almost identical shot totals. If you go where to look you see Barker and Cooper were 6 of 24 in the game that and several more fouls resulted in the 16 point loss.

 

[brittannica]

You’re right, so little left to lose now. And probably what’s gained by Kim taking a firm grip would offset whatever it cost us on the court to bench a few and screw the subbing.

You were also right that the system will not work when pulled apart the way it’s had to be this season. lol of course I still don’t think it’ll work anyway, but I think the colossal mess of uncertainty and inconsistency we’re in is because we’re somewhere in limbo between playing the way she knows how and whatever the hell it is we’re doing now.

I think it is confusing to the players too! At least earlier in the season I saw some of our first year players catch the ball and noticeably pause because they didn't know what to do. I also do not think it will work, but you could at least eliminate some of the confusion.

I also agree, though it's too late now imo, that Kim should've taken a firm grip and just lost a few games by benching players who are not truly giving effort. It probably would've been worth it for cohesion and culture.

 

[brittannica]

One upside we only lost to South Carolina by 40. Missouri lost to South Carolina by 41

 

[VolRanch]

Yes! Because apparently we deserve the trials of Job, Justine about to light us the F up

Does that mean at the end we get 16 natties!?

Endure people! Endure!

 

[1reVOLver]

If you know where to look you see Barker and Cooper were 6 of 24 in the game that and several more fouls resulted in the 16 point loss.

6 for 25, but who's counting!

 

[brittannica]

One upside we only lost to South Carolina by 40. Missouri lost to South Carolina by 41

what is most disgusting to me about this is that I've been calling us orange Ole Miss all season, but we are worse than Ole Miss and their Twitter coach.

 

[HambyVol]

They need an inside dominant post person and stop shooting so many 3's. Kim's time will be limited if she doesn't change her ways.

 

[RetroVol]

It looks like you will defend the system to the bitter end! I respect the determination. But in this system CKC really can’t bench players because she needs the fresh cannon fodder. The system also works against conventional reward and punishment pattern. Okay, zi am not starting today because of X,Y and Z (but you will be in the game 90 seconds after tip off).

@madtownvol, I feel confident you read most of the posts on this forum, so you've likely read my posts raising strong questions about Kim's system., although they may not have been top of mind when you wrote this response. I'm not defending the system here. I'm criticizing Andraya's comment. She basically said that if players sometimes play the system they are taught with effort and skill and it works, but they just refuse (or at least some of them) to do so consistently, then the head coach should cater to the recalcitrant players and go looking for an approach that they will play in the middle of a season. Crazy!

Notice what Andraya did not say: She did not say, "These players cannot execute this system." She did not say, "This system won't work at this level." What she said was, "The results this year aren't good and it's up to Kim to abandon what she's done and find something this group of players will be willing to play." Again, that's cray-cray. But it sounds good. It sounds l;ike a smart statement. It gets everyone to nod even if there's no substance or analysis behind it. If she had offered an analysis of why this set of players aren't able to run the system as well as last year's players did, I'd have been all ears. Or if she had offered up a cogent critique of they system's possibilities to reach the Final Four, I'd have been there. She didn't. She just blamed the coach. Simple, easy, and not all that enlightening. There are at least a score of commentators on this board who have said exactly the same thing. Which is probably why what she said was so well received. I'm not criticizing Andraya overall, but this wasn't her best moment.

 

[HypeVol2020]

One upside we only lost to South Carolina by 40. Missouri lost to South Carolina by 41

Yea and we beat missouri by 45…

 

[Volfan2012]

Where we go from here regardless of how this season ends is the retention of the freshman players at least most of them. Two solid freshman coming in am ok if Latham and Cooper are the only two coming back and even if only Latham. A mass exodos will be the end for Caldwell as no way to recover losing an entire roster and not saying she will. I do see some rumblings about several players hitting the portal hopefully that is not true.
If you have five or more back next season with the two incoming freshman to build on you can easily find five portal players that would produce better than the ones we had this season. Retention and portal are going to be huge for any step forward next season.

 

[knoxvol52]

Where we go from here regardless of how this season ends is the retention of the freshman players at least most of them. Two solid freshman coming in am ok if Latham and Cooper are the only two coming back and even if only Latham. A mass exodos will be the end for Caldwell as no way to recover losing an entire roster and not saying she will. I do see some rumblings about several players hitting the portal hopefully that is not true.
If you have five or more back next season with the two incoming freshman to build on you can easily find five portal players that would produce better than the ones we had this season. Retention and portal are going to be huge for any step forward next season.

Need all 5 Frosh back next season with the 2 incoming High school players. Latham and just as you say, I can do with or without Cooper. Hit portal find another big to cover for Edwards when she rest and find about 4 damn snipers from 3 ....then we cooking with peanut oil.

 

[RetroVol]

4 damn snipers from 3

At the D1 level, these are hella rare. Maybe there are a few buried on bad teams whose skill is getting swamped defensively because other teams can cheat on them. But, it's going to take a wide search area and some in-depth research to find even a couple. Four would be a miracle.

 

[knoxvol52]

At the D1 level, these are hella rare. Maybe there are a few buried on bad teams whose skill is getting swamped defensively because other teams can cheat on them. But, it's going to take a wide search area and some in-depth research to find even a couple. Four would be a miracle.

This will get you all the 3 point specialist you need ...



Need to start playing by the rules like the rest do...Tamper,Tamper,Tamper...

This Morally correct stuff went out the window when NIL became a legal thing.

 

[Volfan2012]

At the D1 level, these are hella rare. Maybe there are a few buried on bad teams whose skill is getting swamped defensively because other teams can cheat on them. But, it's going to take a wide search area and some in-depth research to find even a couple. Four would be a miracle.

Probably could find a couple more competent than who we have now. I'm more into all around players, but getting a couple of consistent 35 plus shooters from three has to be a goal from this portal.

 

[RetroVol]

Probably could find a couple more competent than who we have now. I'm more into all around players, but getting a couple of consistent 35 plus shooters from three has to be a goal from this portal.

And getting the 3pt shooters we have ready to go at a higher level. Mia still seems a little off to me, not only from long range, but finishing her drives. Lauren is an obvious focus to get her the shots she needs (and help her improve across the board). Can't tell about Jaida -- she looked bad from long range early, but is picking up now. Not sure about Mya's best fit -- running her and Mia together goes really small, but perhaps she can be Mia's backup with little dropoff? Deniya is playing better, but long range is wildly erratic. Again, lots of summer work.

Coop? If she comes back, hopefully it's the Coop we all love, not the one who's been too much in evidence lately. When's the last time she pulled one of her trademark slap-away steals? But, her 3pt shooting improved this year. I think she tends to take a lot on her shoulders when things aren't clicking -- and, yes, it looks like hero ball -- and that translates into pressure on everything. If we can put some folks around her who can share the load on shooting, she may well take a big step up. Again, if she stays.

 

[Caz]

Then you'd bitch about something else

You got this wrong there AllVols, I don't bitch, I was only replying to a post of another that mentioned the team had players not giving an effort and said we should play the ones that do. Maybe save your insults for someone that gives cares what you think.

 

[Volfan2012]

And getting the 3pt shooters we have ready to go at a higher level. Mia still seems a little off to me, not only from long range, but finishing her drives. Lauren is an obvious focus to get her the shots she needs (and help her improve across the board). Can't tell about Jaida -- she looked bad from long range early, but is picking up now. Not sure about Mya's best fit -- running her and Mia together goes really small, but perhaps she can be Mia's backup with little dropoff? Deniya is playing better, but long range is wildly erratic. Again, lots of summer work.

Coop? If she comes back, hopefully it's the Coop we all love, not the one who's been too much in evidence lately. When's the last time she pulled one of her trademark slap-away steals? But, her 3pt shooting improved this year. I think she tends to take a lot on her shoulders when things aren't clicking -- and, yes, it looks like hero ball -- and that translates into pressure on everything. If we can put some folks around her who can share the load on shooting, she may well take a big step up. Again, if she stays.

Yes adding a couple and retaining what we already have is the key to a better season and going in the right direction. No doubt all five freshmen will be vastly improved will we be able to keep them here? No doubt Cooper and Latham would be welcome returnees another year of experience always means a better player. With all this staying in place the portal still remains huge and will either raise us to a top four level in the conference or drop us to this season. I'd say getting two key players and a couple of blue collar workers will be enough to raise our level next season. I still have hopes of this season turning our better. After Sunday your record goes to 0 and 0 if you can have a reset still could do a long way.

 

[glv98]

What she said was, "The results this year aren't good and it's up to Kim to abandon what she's done and find something this group of players will be willing to play." Again, that's cray-cray. But it sounds good

Sounds good because it is good. In no way Cray Cray. It's a very succinct, precise and accurate assessment of the heart of the problem. Carter had limited time, expecting her to do a deep dive on team psychology and how it all could look different in the future is unrealistic. She's a good communicator because she hit the nail squarely on the head In the time she was allotted.

It is precisely the coach's job to provide the personnel she does have with a workable plan they can execute. You seem to think it's rewarding bad behavior to move away from a system they clearly do not believe in. But the irony is that ship has already sailed. She quit using the system, except for the stupid gimmicky subbing, a while ago.

The problem is exactly as Carter pointed out, that she's either been unwilling or unable to fill the void with any workable plans. Thus we get the confusion, the frustration, the chaos, that has led us to historic lows.

Actually Retro you've been just as honest as Carter. You said weeks ago you weren't sure Caldwell could coach any other way. Obviously, painfully, sadly at this point she cannot. Will she ever be able to, either with a modified version of her system or something more appropriate to whatever personnel she gathers next year? I hope to God a summer miracle happens because this program cannot take another season like this without falling into complete irrelevancy, assuming it's not already there.

 

[VolFan_stuck_in_the_901]

Sounds good because it is good. In no way Cray Cray. It's a very succinct, precise and accurate assessment of the heart of the problem. Carter had limited time, expecting her to do a deep dive on team psychology and how it all could look different in the future is unrealistic. She's a good communicator because she hit the nail squarely on the head In the time she was allotted.

It is precisely the coach's job to provide the personnel she does have with a workable plan they can execute. You seem to think it's rewarding bad behavior to move away from a system they clearly do not believe in. But the irony is that ship has already sailed. She quit using the system, except for the stupid gimmicky subbing, a while ago.

The problem is exactly as Carter pointed out, that she's either been unwilling or unable to fill the void with any workable plans. Thus we get the confusion, the frustration, the chaos, that has led us to historic lows.

Actually Retro you've been just as honest as Carter. You said weeks ago you weren't sure Caldwell could coach any other way. Obviously, painfully, sadly at this point she cannot. Will she ever be able to, either with a modified version of her system or something more appropriate to whatever personnel she gathers next year? I hope to God a summer miracle happens because this program cannot take another season like this without falling into complete irrelevancy, assuming it's not already there.

This, she should be able to adjust her system to fit the personnel that she has on the team; even our football coach, for as much flak as he receives, showed that he could adjust his "system" and style of play to fit the personnel that he has. If a coach can't adjust their system, then they have a gimmick

 

[Orange Maniac]

Everybody has their own opinion, but I think we have to do what it takes to retain Civil. She is the best of the freshmen in my eyes. Her production has gone up drastically against the tougher competition. No other freshman excels against the stronger teams. Prawl shows potential but can't hit a layup to save her life. I think she will also improve with time. Hurst looks pretty good also. Pauldo hasn't yet recovered from her concussion or something. She doesn't look or play the same.

 

[RetroVol]

You’re right, so little left to lose now. And probably what’s gained by Kim taking a firm grip would offset whatever it cost us on the court to bench a few and screw the subbing.

I actually meant that as a lesson for next year. In other words, looking back, I think it would have been better to do this at the first hint of lack of effort. "You won't get benched for mistakes. You will get benched, despite what that will do to the rotations and your team, if you don't put in the effort." Kim has said this is an effort-based system. I hope, whatever she goes to next year, that she learns that she can't just let players figure it out on the floor (and from post-game coaching) when they fail at the non-negotiable of whatever it is she makes most important.

 

[RetroVol]

You were also right that the system will not work when pulled apart the way it’s had to be this season. lol of course I still don’t think it’ll work anyway, but I think the colossal mess of uncertainty and inconsistency we’re in is because we’re somewhere in limbo between playing the way she knows how and whatever the hell it is we’re doing now.

This feels right to me. Can't pinpoint the "what" exactly, but it feels right.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

Nice improvement last night by our LVs..... Coach included far departure from the several games before..... this performance is one on which we can build nice job gals