Game Thread: Liberty v Lady Vols, Sat. Nov 16th; Home-FCC; Noon; SEC+ network; win 109-93

[papatomany]

CKC's postgame presser (sounds like she came down on their defensive play really hard!)

https://utsports.com/watch/live?Archive=23013&type=Archive

Though it doesn't post like it, this is a link to video.

This right here is how I know Kim will be exceptionally successful here.

 

[RebKell]

Best I could do.

 

[Volfan2012]

A lot of teams are having issues it is early. LSU had a very tough game with Murray St. It was just to much ball hawking yesterday leaving players with open shots and congrats to them for making them. We can play a lot better defense just have to actually quit seeing three players guarding one which happened to many possessions yesterday.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

Pretty much verbatim on my thoughts on Duke.

I’m 99% sure newladyvol fan is @FormerLadyVolFan previously EarlVolFan. Huge Kellie supporter and had a full meltdown when she was fired.

Posts are similar, repetitive, whiny, glass half empty blah blah blah.

He’ll never admit she was a disaster of a coach and watching Kim have success is going to shorten his lifespan greatly. Not handling it well lol

Are you sure it’s Earl …..@FormerLadyvolfan was always glass half full not empty during the CKJH years.

 

[VolBall09]

Are you sure it’s Earl …..@FormerLadyvolfan was always glass half full not empty during the CKJH years.

Almost positive. He lost his mind when Kellie was fired and said he would never be a fan again. Now he sees the success and has decided he likes Kim and wants to come back like he never said all that ****.

 

[Orange Maniac]

This is her…. Score more points

So, how do you do that? You put up more shots by, wait for it, playing better defense and robbing possessions from the other team. A lot of people think Kim emphasizes offense but she actually emphasizes defense to gain more possessions/shots. In my opinion, she is a defensive minded coach first.

 

[papatomany]

Maybe she doesn’t know how to fix it… maybe that’s why she doesn’t call timeouts

Or maybe, just maybe, she's four games into her first season here with a team she threw together; and we're seeing the actual growing pains she said there would be.

As for timeouts: get used to it. It's counterintuitive to have a system designed to frustrate the other team with constant pressure and waves of fresh bodies only to give the other team a reprieve because of a little run. An example of the payoff yesterday was Steenbergen. Every time they showed her she was breathing hard and looking frustrated. Sure enough, 6 turnovers in 13 minutes of action.

 

[VolBall09]

Or maybe, just maybe, she's four games into her first season here with a team she threw together; and we're seeing the actual growing pains she said there would be.

As for timeouts: get used to it. It's counterintuitive to have a system designed to frustrate the other team with constant pressure and waves of fresh bodies only to give the other team a reprieve because of a little run. An example of the payoff yesterday was Steenbergen. Every time they showed her she was breathing hard and looking frustrated. Sure enough, 6 turnovers in 13 minutes of action.

Our turnover margin has been the biggest positive to me this season. Coop had 6 yesterday but 3 were questionable offensive foul calls.

You take those back and it’s 25-12. 25-15 is still excellent and better than we have been since Pat was coaching.

Those extra possessions buy you so much wiggle room if your offense or defense is not clicking on any given night.

Really didn’t feel like Liberty had that many turnovers because there weren’t as many live ball turnovers/steals as the first couple games. The mental exhaustion of the press and pressure starts to add up though. They threw a lot of balls out of bounds just being mentally and physically fatigued. That used to be us.

 

[glv98]

Our turnover margin has been the biggest positive to me this season

Assist/ to rate has been outstanding. Of course with that many shots going up, there are lots of assist chances.

 

[VolBall09]

Assist/ to rate has been outstanding. Of course with that many shots going up, there are lots of assist chances.

Well duh that’s how it works. Are you saying that is a negative? I know you never played but your takes are baffling sometimes.

 

[glv98]

So, how do you do that? You put up more shots by, wait for it, playing better defense and robbing possessions from the other team. A lot of people think Kim emphasizes offense but she actually emphasizes defense to gain more possessions/shots. In my opinion, she is a defensive minded coach first.

Not much question she's a D first coach. In that way, she's alot like Pat.

 

[glv98]

Well duh that’s how it works. Are you saying that is a negative? I know you never played but your takes are baffling sometimes.

No snowflake, that was in no way negative. Just an observation. Same is true of rebounds, more chances.

You could lower the tinfoil shields a little bit.

 

[VolBall09]

No snowflake, that was in no way negative. Just an observation. Same is true of rebounds, more chances.

You could lower the tinfoil shields a little bit.

Really we just don’t understand each other. I believe you also want the best for the team but your posts make no sense when you try to talk basketball.

Rebounds last game were average for both teams because shooting percentages were good for both teams.

 

[glv98]

your posts make no sense when you try to talk basketball.

note to self: makes no sense to observe that the increased number of shot attempts will generate more assists and rebounds this year.

 

[alexvol]

Or maybe, just maybe, she's four games into her first season here with a team she threw together; and we're seeing the actual growing pains she said there would be.

As for timeouts: get used to it. It's counterintuitive to have a system designed to frustrate the other team with constant pressure and waves of fresh bodies only to give the other team a reprieve because of a little run. An example of the payoff yesterday was Steenbergen. Every time they showed her she was breathing hard and looking frustrated. Sure enough, 6 turnovers in 13 minutes of action.

Dead center of Bullseye !!!!!!

 

[Mafiaboss]

Y'all remember when CKC was saying that her teams aren't very good in November. And remember that "good" is a relative term based on where the coach wants them to be when it really matters.

So, this game was one to put in the not very good yet/ need to improve file.

Teams are getting film on the LVs and seeing ways to beat it. One bounce is often what it takes. If you have a reasonable agile big, you can bring them up to be an outlet.

I said before that predictability makes teams vulnerable. Right now, our press is very one note and if teams don;t get trapped in the corner, they are handling it okay (and we have played teams with no where the athletes we have or will face).

So, the solution is to mix things up. Change your spacing. change your point of attack and so on. I am sure different press wrinkles will get built in as he season goes on.

I think the subbing pattern might change a bit too, When you have a group that is really flowing, manybe leave them on a bit long say 5 minutes than 90 seconds.


Cooper is being consistently outstanding every game so far, Everyone else has been running a little hot or cold but Cooper has been a monster in every game.

Yes. And watching the team learn in real time in games confuses many of the posters here. They make black white/ either-or observations that simplify what is more complex. That is not feedback. That is emoting.

 

[Golfteacher]

Against a tall, skilled post we are going to give up points. Hollingshead can't guard anyone. Zee is good, but can get a lot better. Latham is a good post defender but is too short against the taller posts. Favor is the same. We are not built to stop a strong post game. Our best bet in those sorts of games is to deny them the ball. And the post can't score if their team can never get the ball over half-court. We had an 8 pt spurt today where the other team never got the ball past half-court.

That is probably what this style is going to look like. Swarm the larger posts if they bring the ball down, deny them the ball, and rebound like hell on their misses. I thought we were missing the help defense today that would have kept their big girl from maneuvering as much as she was. She was able to turn in any direction she wanted, and make slow post moves that required a lot of set-up. You gotta take that away and limit her moves by filling those spaces.

No matter the size of your opponent, you cannot allow the paint to go uncovered. We tried to deny the post by double-teaming the ball once it was over mid-court, but Liberty’s post had her way with us. I love our aggressiveness, but we left three shooters open along with the post. We cannot allow a team like Liberty to score 90 plus points. They are not remotely close to the top ten teams in the SEC. I am sure Coach Kim was unhappy with the defense and will take necessary actions to correct any issue we might have. No, I do not see Holinshed being successful in this scheme of basketball. She is not very athletic or aggressive.

 

[StickMan]

May be over simplifying, but my impression was that the intensity dwindled after we got the huge lead. It's the first time I felt that way under the new coach, and I'm confident she won't tolerate it. I loved Kellie, but to me her downfall was that she did tolerate bouts of poor effort. When her teams played hard, they were actually very good.

 

[madtownvol]

Strange semi-meltdown on this board. But as they say reality bites. Many seemed convinced the LVs were going to look like an insane video game where their press completely imploded the opposition and generated a 100 steals and 200 points a game and where bets would me made on whether the LVs would give up a point over the course of the season.

Some have been very quick to shutdown any consideration of weaknesses. No, this team has no flaws!! We are fielding of 12 Candace Parkers and no coach will be able to find any way to have success against this never before seen or imagined system!!

That Polyannishness sets the stage for unrealistic expectations.

The reality is that this squad is a make-shift one. I am happy to see Tess and Sara being integral to the rotation and making positive contributions but I don't think they are players CKC would have recruited (same for Jillian and Avery).

Jewell is struggling a bit to find her groove in this system, particularly on the defensive side.

Boyd is a freshman, Whitehorn, Spearman, Latham, and Ayedole are still learning and adjusting. Spencer looks pretty comfortable and Cooper is the one player in this set who seems really at home and has been consistently stellar.

SO count it up, that is SEVEN new and key players that are being integrated and all the rest who are learning very different roles. And they are down Wynn who was the returner who seemed best suited to play in the new system.

In other words, that is A LOT!!! And they are just 4 games into the season.

PS. I just listened to Ruby's post-game comment that it is a challenge to make defensive adjustments when you are being rotated out so much and playing with different combinations of players.

That makes sense and likely plays a role in why CKC says her teams start slow. You need players who are completely interchangeable and play with have a "hive mind". It is a longer process to achieve that kind of cohesiveness than when you are working with 7-8 player rotation scheme.

 

[Nute Gunray]

Strange semi-meltdown on this board. But as they say reality bites. Many seemed convinced the LVs were going to look like insane video game where their press completely imploded the opposition and generated a 100 steals and 200 points a game and where bets would me made on whether the LVs would give up a point over the course of the season.

Some where quick to shutdown any consideration of weaknesses. No, this team has no flaws!! We are fielding of 12 Candace Parkers and no coach will be able to find any way to have success against this never before seen or imagined system!!

The reality is that this squad is a make-shift one. I am happy to see Tess and Sara being integral to the rotation and making positive contributions but I don't think they are players CKC would have recruited (same for Jillian and Avery).

Jewell is struggling a bit to find her groove in this system, particularly on the defensive side.

Boyd is a freshman, Whitehorn, Spearman, Latham, and Ayedole are still learning and adjusting. Spencer looks pretty comfortable and Cooper is the one player in this set who seems really at home and has been consistently stellar.

SO count it up, that is SEVEN new and key players that are being integrated and all the rest who are learning very different roles. And they are down Wynn who was the returner who seemed to suited to play in the new system.

In other words, that is A LOT!!! And they are just 4 games into the season.

PS. I just listened to Ruby's post-game comment was that it is a challenge to make defensive adjustments when you are being rotated out so much and playing with different combinations of players.

That makes sense and likely plays a role in why CKC says her teams start slow. You need players who are completely interchangeable and play with have a "hive mind". That is a longer process to achieve that kind of cohesiveness than when you are working with 7-8 player rotation scheme.

Madtownvol, you are right on with your Lady Vols assessment as always. I hope CKC is willing to change her player rotation scheme if her present scheme doesn't work.

 

[lvocd]

That makes sense and likely plays a role in why CKC says her teams start slow. You need players who are completely interchangeable and play with have a "hive mind". That is a longer process to achieve that kind of cohesiveness than when you are working with 7-8 player rotation scheme.

That's it right there.

As KC keeps saying over and over and over again, "It takes time." Believe her. She also is confident her team will get there. Believe her. I do.

 

[madtownvol]

Madtownvol, you are right on with your Lady Vols assessment as always. I hope CKC is willing to change her player rotation scheme if her present scheme doesn't work.

Hi Nute,

I think the idea of going deeper in the rotation and keeping fresh legs on the floor has merit, particularly when intensity is key to the game plan.

I also think CKC is being a little mechanical in her rotations. After 90 seconds the starters are off. It is hard to get into any kind of flow with that quick of a line-up change. And some of her players are not as interchangeable as others.

Yesterday, 5 players had 20 minutes of more. Tess had 18, Jewel had 17 and Alyssa & Jillian had 14, Avery and Favor respectively played 90 seconds and four minutes. So, in practical terms the LVs had a 9 player rotation.

The likely tweak is that CKC, like other coaches, will decide who her core 8 players are (and we sort of already know that) and then substitute around that core. So, we might see less of the hockey subs and always have Cooper or Spencer on the floor while still rotating some fresh legs every 3-5 minutes.

 

[lvocd]

Yep, the rotation/minutes changes are definitely coming. Meanwhile, everybody's getting into every game (except the obviously-still-not-100% Wells) and getting helpful experience getting used to one another out there. This is all a well-thought-out plan, guaranteed.

I wish I had a crystal ball that would give me just 10 minutes of seeing them in a game at the end of January, because I think they'll be looking pretty solid by then.

But I need to slow down and enjoy the process instead of wishing a huge chunk of the season away because I'm excited about the future.

 

[madtownvol]

Yep, the rotation/minutes changes are definitely coming. Meanwhile, everybody's getting into every game (except the obviously-still-not-100% Wells) and getting helpful experience getting used to one another out there. This is all a well-thought-out plan, guaranteed.

I wish I had a crystal ball that would give me just 10 minutes of seeing them in a game at the end of January, because I think they'll be looking pretty solid by then.

But I need to slow down and enjoy the process instead of wishing a huge chunk of the season away because I'm excited about the future.

I actually forgot about Destiny. Barring injuries (and lets hope not), I think DW will be on he periphery all season. Some of that is just coming back from an ACL, coupled with the demands of this system is a big ask.

It is really unfortunate for Destiny but some athletes just have luck go against them and have to soldier on as best they can.

I am not sure that Wells would have been a player that CKC would have recruited either. Boyd, a Kellie recruit let us remember, is a fortuitous case because she looks like a CKC player so that match is there.

 

[lvocd]

Mtv, Boyd is absolutely blowing me away. I have no idea why, but I expected Kaniya to look tentative and too green to contribute much this year. But MAN was I ever wrong about her. Boyd (and obviously Cooper) was definitely a lucky break for Caldwell. Kim probably wouldn't say it out loud -- maybe not even to her own husband -- but she's probably thanking God every day for her roster.