Game Thread: Lady Vols v UT-Martin, Away, Sun. Nov 9th, 3PM, ESPN+; (Win 72-61)

Okay. Got it. Quit what she knows and what has worked for her and do what everyone else does, not what got her here. I understand your point and can respect it. And you may be right.

I don't agree that her approach has been proven not to work. I haven't seen the same kind of press this year that we did last. Could be that's just to get them to learn stuff now she thinks they will need by forcing them to do more of it and she will go back closer to form as the season progresses. Or, she may be moving permanently in your direction. She has said repeatedly that she learned a lot in conference play last year. Also that she didn't push to put in as much of her system this summer as she did last year. I suspect no one but those closest to her know for sure to what extent she is adapting. You may be right. Just have to see what develops over the course of the season.
Evolve or die. Hell, even Heupel, who everyone compared to the CKC hire, has had to evolve his system in the face of SEC competition.

We have the core of her system which is a fast paced, 3 pt oriented attack that wins the rebounding battle and that makes life hard on opposing offenses with high effort defending. You can do that just fine without line subbing and easy to break full court pressing that gives up layups and puts opponent on the FT line.
 
Knox not everything is an argument or an insult.

You mentioned Russian novels, I thought Dostoevsky's phrase "confusion in the rooms" was a decent description of the LV's last few games. I have never picked a bone with you, so I am little surprised you took my comment as a hostile act but I suppose that is becoming the culture of this board.
Wasn't offended at all, just messing around. My apologies to you if you thought I was offended... But anyhow have a nice evening...
 
It's only been three games, so these kinds of stats are somewhat meaningless, but they already feel telling (2024-25 vs. 2025-26, with national ranking in parentheses):

- Possessions per 40 minutes: 79.6 (2nd) vs. 76.8 (101st)
- Points per game: 86.6 (3rd) vs. 82 (77nd)
- Offensive rebounds/game and offensive rebounding rate: 16.9 (3rd) and 39% (14th) vs. 16.0 (73rd) and 38.1% (123rd)
- Assist/turnover ratio: 1.09 (53rd) vs. 1.00 (128th)
- Turnover rate: 14.8% (12th) vs. 16.5% (114th)
- Opponent turnovers/game: 22.2 (9th) vs. 19.7 (143rd)
- Foul rate: 21.9% (281st) vs. 24% (285th)
- 3pt.%: 32.5% (120th) vs. 30% (185th)

Other than getting 3-point shots up (currently 2nd/4th in attempts and makes, vs. 1st/2nd last year), the system isn't yet doing the things it should be doing. The pace isn't there, the rebounding isn't there, we aren't forcing turnovers (but we're committing plenty), our 3-point shooting % is a little worse, and well, we're still fouling a lot.
 
Like the analysis! As you say, not a large enough sample size yet. But always good to start looking at the numbers. However, last year I thought CKC was trying to demonstrate her approach, to show her team and the world that it works. This year I get the feeling she is looking ahead and trying to set some things up up for conference play. I said it during the UTM game, I didn't see the same type of press we ran last year into late in the first half. And when we ran it, it got results. It may be that the results are skewed by different priorities.
 
Other than getting 3-point shots up (currently 2nd/4th in attempts and makes, vs. 1st/2nd last year), the system isn't yet doing the things it should be doing. The pace isn't there, the rebounding isn't there, we aren't forcing turnovers (but we're committing plenty), our 3-point shooting % is a little worse, and well, we're still fouling a lot.

That's some A+ nutshelling right there
 
It's only been three games, so these kinds of stats are somewhat meaningless, but they already feel telling (2024-25 vs. 2025-26, with national ranking in parentheses):

- Possessions per 40 minutes: 79.6 (2nd) vs. 76.8 (101st)
- Points per game: 86.6 (3rd) vs. 82 (77nd)
- Offensive rebounds/game and offensive rebounding rate: 16.9 (3rd) and 39% (14th) vs. 16.0 (73rd) and 38.1% (123rd)
- Assist/turnover ratio: 1.09 (53rd) vs. 1.00 (128th)
- Turnover rate: 14.8% (12th) vs. 16.5% (114th)
- Opponent turnovers/game: 22.2 (9th) vs. 19.7 (143rd)
- Foul rate: 21.9% (281st) vs. 24% (285th)
- 3pt.%: 32.5% (120th) vs. 30% (185th)

Other than getting 3-point shots up (currently 2nd/4th in attempts and makes, vs. 1st/2nd last year), the system isn't yet doing the things it should be doing. The pace isn't there, the rebounding isn't there, we aren't forcing turnovers (but we're committing plenty), our 3-point shooting % is a little worse, and well, we're still fouling a lot.
Nice job on the stats. Thanks! To me, it's what I would expect from a pressing/stressing team with 8 new players. We are clearly not as efficient this season (so far) and I think it's primarily caused by the personnel changes. I think we're just as talented.....
 
Nutshell People. When you have to kick off a experienced Starter double digit scorer. Robertson is trying but not yet there she should improve. Jersey is a complete no show and Freshman will be up and down trying to force things. Team will get better much to work on might even be some ugly losses who knows but let this staff work on this team of what they want. It's simple. In CHRIST Alone
 
Ya know, I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that Jersey Wolfenbarger is going to have her "Ah-ha!" moment no more than half-way through the season and then will become a steady contributor. Right now she's tentative, but I can see she just needs a few solid games in this system to start to feel she belongs. She does belong, and she can help us greatly. I truly believe that.
 
Ya know, I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that Jersey Wolfenbarger is going to have her "Ah-ha!" moment no more than half-way through the season and then will become a steady contributor. Right now she's tentative, but I can see she just needs a few solid games in this system to start to feel she belongs. She does belong, and she can help us greatly. I truly believe that.
Long limb.
 
Ya know, I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that Jersey Wolfenbarger is going to have her "Ah-ha!" moment no more than half-way through the season and then will become a steady contributor. Right now she's tentative, but I can see she just needs a few solid games in this system to start to feel she belongs. She does belong, and she can help us greatly. I truly believe that.
I’ve tried to stay away for the Jersey talk, but here’s my opinion on her. All of her college coaches have failed her, she came into college as a Pg/Wing and she was good, and once she gets to college they turn her into a post player, she’s never had the feel or game for the post and has been struggling ever since. I think if they would have let her play her game from the start, she would have been a different player by now. I’ve watched that happens to a few players, I only know of one player that has been able to do it at a high level in college. As of now it’s too late for her to move back.
 
Long limb.
Not gonna disagree based on her extremely tentative performances so far. She's a veteran player who has played so far a little like an unsure underclassman.I honestly do not think that is her AT ALL.

She is obviously not a big and powerful brute force -- she is too slight for that -- but I have seen Jersey play MUCH more confidently before this year against strong competition and so I have a strong feeling she'll break through at Tennessee and become solid.

Now, I'm not saying she's definitely going to end up on an All-American team, but I AM saying I feel like she could become someone who could eventually go in and hold her own on a consistent basis against any opponent.

I think many people forget that being a Tennessee Lady Vol basketball player is, well, A LOT to handle. A senior transfer who has been steeped in other team cultures for several tears might just need a similar adjustment period to what freshmen require.

I think Jersey can be solid once she gets to that point.
 
I’ve tried to stay away for the Jersey talk, but here’s my opinion on her. All of her college coaches have failed her, she came into college as a Pg/Wing and she was good, and once she gets to college they turn her into a post player, she’s never had the feel or game for the post and has been struggling ever since. I think if they would have let her play her game from the start, she would have been a different player by now. I’ve watched that happens to a few players, I only know of one player that has been able to do it at a high level in college. As of now it’s too late for her to move back.
Great post. But disagree it is too late.
 
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Great post. But disagree it is too late.
Why I said it’s too late, is because they would have had to work her that way in the offseason, I doubt she’s been trying to transition back, it takes time to get those skills back after you’ve not used them in a while. But I hope you’re right, and just her play her game, and that’s not in the post.
 
Why I said it’s too late, is because they would have had to work her that way in the offseason, I doubt she’s been trying to transition back, it takes time to get those skills back after you’ve not used them in a while. But I hope you’re right, and just her play her game, and that’s not in the post.
I totally understand your concerns, and you may be 100% correct. But for some reason I feel like maybe this player has something to prove and will find her time to step into the light.

I know you want that too, DarkPhoenix, so let's think positively on this together!
 
I totally understand your concerns, and you may be 100% correct. But for some reason I feel like maybe this player has something to prove and will find her time to step into the light.

I know you want that too, DarkPhoenix, so let's think positively on this together!
Got a couple weeks to get it figured out before that UCLA Stanford Louisville stretch. Maybe something clicks soon.
 
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It's only been three games, so these kinds of stats are somewhat meaningless, but they already feel telling (2024-25 vs. 2025-26, with national ranking in parentheses):

- Possessions per 40 minutes: 79.6 (2nd) vs. 76.8 (101st)
- Points per game: 86.6 (3rd) vs. 82 (77nd)
- Offensive rebounds/game and offensive rebounding rate: 16.9 (3rd) and 39% (14th) vs. 16.0 (73rd) and 38.1% (123rd)
- Assist/turnover ratio: 1.09 (53rd) vs. 1.00 (128th)
- Turnover rate: 14.8% (12th) vs. 16.5% (114th)
- Opponent turnovers/game: 22.2 (9th) vs. 19.7 (143rd)
- Foul rate: 21.9% (281st) vs. 24% (285th)
- 3pt.%: 32.5% (120th) vs. 30% (185th)

Other than getting 3-point shots up (currently 2nd/4th in attempts and makes, vs. 1st/2nd last year), the system isn't yet doing the things it should be doing. The pace isn't there, the rebounding isn't there, we aren't forcing turnovers (but we're committing plenty), our 3-point shooting % is a little worse, and well, we're still fouling a lot.
For me, these stats say it all. It is not the system that is messed up, it is that this team is not excelling in the system yet. Her system has been successful here last year and before, as it helped us almost win several games with teams that were significantly more talented than us. I think the real coaching challenge this year is how far can coach meld the current team to better play the system (it is still so early in the season) vs. how much does coach modify the system to fit the team (it just doesn't have the pure shooter's last team had except for perhaps for the twins, but they have a lot of duties other than shooting to be learning as Freshmen).
 
Some impressive and thoughtful analysis posted here in the postgame analysis!

The points being made underline why I expect this staff will value and pursue HS recruits much more than senior transfers. I think this year's portal additions--excellent as they are--will prove an anomaly over the following years.

They just have so much more to unlearn, and yet they are being looked to for leadership since they understand from experience what it takes from July to March.
 
Some impressive and thoughtful analysis posted here in the postgame analysis!

The points being made underline why I expect this staff will value and pursue HS recruits much more than senior transfers. I think this year's portal additions--excellent as they are--will prove an anomaly over the following years.

They just have so much more to unlearn, and yet they are being looked to for leadership since they understand from experience what it takes from July to March.
This could also be a reason that the system needs to be reassessed and tweaked Maybe it's just too darn hard to learn. Maybe it's not worth it to always have rough early seasons as CKC has told us to expect. Maybe it's not a positive to be limited in recruiting experienced players from the portal because the learning curve is too steep.

It didn't stop them from picking up key Portal players with limited eligibility left last spring. Janiah Barker's whole career has been learning and unlearning. We're her 4th school. If anyone can learn a new system quickly, if that system can be learned quickly, it should be her.
 
I have been unable to watch the team thus far. This place is my go-to for info. It doesn't sound too promising, but also not surprised this early.
Actually IMO it's quite promising despite a lackluster start. It's just not the juggernaut some comically hyperbolic fans spent the whole offseason predicting.

Also IMO, the turn around in the program that many called last season was was overblown. Yes the win against Connecticut was wonderful and getting to the Sweet Sixteen (again) was holding serve. But the turn around is still a work in progress, especially in close games against ranked teams. And the league is ridiculously tough, leading last year's team to the worst league finish in a long time. You can be in the preseason top 10 but still have four league teams in front of you. Brutal.
 
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This could also be a reason that the system needs to be reassessed and tweaked Maybe it's just too darn hard to learn. Maybe it's not worth it to always have rough early seasons as CKC has told us to expect. Maybe it's not a positive to be limited in recruiting experienced players from the portal because the learning curve is too steep.

It didn't stop them from picking up key Portal players with limited eligibility left last spring. Janiah Barker's whole career has been learning and unlearning. We're her 4th school. If anyone can learn a new system quickly, if that system can be learned quickly, it should be her.
I dunno... if it's the system that's hard to learn, then shouldn't CKC have had less success with her previous teams, which were made up of less experienced, less accomplished, less athletic (if you count size) players? If anything, her system is less complicated, less about Xs and Os, and more about each player utilizing her skillset, her on-court personality, to achieve more shot attempts than the opponent through generated turnovers and offensive rebounds.

I agree, if it was Xs and Os being too complicated, that they should dial that back, simplify, or wait to install everything.

But if it's just ingrained habits and attitudes having to be unlearned, then I'm not sure how a coach could strategically tweak things like... going straight into aggressive defense after a made basket, seeking to force turnovers every second you're out there on defense, pushing the ball downcourt as rapidly as possible on offense, and playing without constant bench instructions.

I keep hearing CKC say, as last season, that players are doing it right in practice but falling back into old habits during games. If she sees this happening more at Tennessee than it did at Glenville State or Marshall, then I'm thinking it must be because players at this level have already played far more hours of basketball, nearly year-'round, and thus those old habits are more deeply set, more instinctive, and thus coming out when she turns them lose to play the actual games.

If that's the case (and I know I may be full of hooey) then the only adjustment that would make sense would be to work with more players over successive seasons, until their old habits have been fully purged and replaced. Our best clue to whether or not that will work would be to observe how much Coop, Zee, Latham and Boyd improve/adjust over last season, once they get adjusted to playing with all their new, still assimilating, teammates.
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[Geez, it's obvious when I should be doing other writing--I get so long winded here instead! Apologies...]
 
Actually IMO it's quite promising despite a lackluster start. It's just not the juggernaut some comically hyperbolic fans spent the whole offseason predicting.

Also IMO, the turn around in the program that many called last season was was overblown. Yes the win against Connecticut was wonderful and getting to the Sweet Sixteen (again) was holding serve. But the turn around is still a work in progress, especially in close games against ranked teams. And the league is ridiculously tough, leading last year's team to the worst league finish in a long time. You can be in the preseason top 10 but still have four league teams in front of you. Brutal.
What has to happen is Coach has to build toward getting people to stay at Tennessee and get several players that have played the system more than one season. The system is more inclined to build to perfection with freshmen who stay four seasons than constantly bringing in portal players to play just one. The only players back this time are Boyd, Spearman, and Cooper with Wynn watching from a far. So far Boyd and Spearman have not played very well for it to be their second year in the system. Wait and see if they turn their slow starts around.

For her system to ever work she will need players to stay cause 8 new players every year will probably get the same result especially for at least half of the year and will never reach full potential without time playing the system.
 

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