Game Thread: Lady Vols v MTSU, Away, Thurs. Nov 20th, 7:30PM, ESPN+

[knoxvol52]

The "mid-range" point is just as much about getting the ball into the paint as it is about 3s. The best shot on the court is in the paint, the next best is a 3 pointer, and a long 2 is the worst.

Last year Talaysia had the 2nd worst Points/Attempt of the team (only ahead of Sara amongst qualified Vols) and a big part of it was her insistence on taking mid-ranges, and even doing so early in the shot clock! [Cooper's PPSA was 0.9 in conference play, Tess was 1.0, Latham and Zee 1.07, Jillian 1.11, Kaniya 1.13, Jewel 1.29]

You're talking to the wall when you throw stats at me.. a 12 to 15 foot shot is a better shot than a 21 foot 3 point shot that goes in less often... Carry on...

 

[RespectAPA]

You're talking to the wall when you throw stats at me.. a 12 to 15 foot shot is a better shot than a 21 foot 3 point shot that goes in less often... Carry on...

I figured even you'd bite at points per attempt. Especially since you're ignoring rebound rate in your 3 vs. long 2 analysis, just like PPSA does!

If we were a team that rebounded offensively at a close to 0% rate, then you'd be right to consider nothing more than how often the ball goes in.

But you're rooting for the team with the 4th most oRBs since the start of the 2024 season. If you ignore that we rebound our misses at a high rate, then your analysis gets the wrong answer. [except in the sense that your analysis is how you feel rather than how things actually are, and I cannot deny you how ya feel]

The more successfully we rebound, the greater the disparity between a 3-value shot and a long-2 becomes.

 

[LadyVolFan222]

You're talking to the wall when you throw stats at me.. a 12 to 15 foot shot is a better shot than a 21 foot 3 point shot that goes in less often... Carry on...

I am with you

 

[37620VOL]

You're talking to the wall when you throw stats at me.. a 12 to 15 foot shot is a better shot than a 21 foot 3 point shot that goes in less often... Carry on...

Which scores more points?

100 3-point shots at 32% or 100 mid-range jumpers at 45%?

 

[Jax_Vol]

Which scores more points?

100 3-point shots at 32% or 100 mid-range jumpers at 45%?

 

[knoxvol52]

Which scores more points?

100 3-point shots at 32% or 100 mid-range jumpers at 45%?

 

[37620VOL]

View attachment 792368

Lol. So in a nutshell. Mid-range jumpers suck, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[knoxvol52]

Lol. So in a nutshell. Mid-range jumpers suck, and I'll leave it at that.

So in a nutshell.. I don't care about analytics ... I'm 55 damn years old and set in my ways.

NO need to bother me with this stuff...

I hate when Head Coaches go for it on 4th and 6 from the 50 yard line as well ....punt the damn ball. I blame it on the NERDS...

 

[LV renaissance]

Which scores more points?

100 3-point shots at 32% or 100 mid-range jumpers at 45%?

I figured even you'd bite at points per attempt. Especially since you're ignoring rebound rate in your 3 vs. long 2 analysis, just like PPSA does!

If we were a team that rebounded offensively at a close to 0% rate, then you'd be right to consider nothing more than how often the ball goes in.

But you're rooting for the team with the 4th most oRBs since the start of the 2024 season. If you ignore that we rebound our misses at a high rate, then your analysis gets the wrong answer. [except in the sense that your analysis is how you feel rather than how things actually are, and I cannot deny you how ya feel]

The more successfully we rebound, the greater the disparity between a 3-value shot and a long-2 becomes.

I am following you. You may have mentioned this previously, but do we have analysis of likelihood of rebounds for close shots, mid-range, and threes. I wonder if the analysts the college teams now hire are able to get specific ones for the team, because that is what would be most relevant. I imagine the stats may vary with the type of players you have and the spacing of players a coach prefers. Pat always had tremendous rebounders who would position themselves under the rim and dominate there for almost every close shot missed. However, I am not sure how great of a rebounder the Glory Johnsons and Nicky Anosikes would be for balls that are bouncing hard of the rim like some long shots do?

 

[37620VOL]

I am following you. You may have mentioned this previously, but do we have analysis of likelihood of rebounds for close shots, mid-range, and threes. I wonder if the analysts the college teams now hire are able to get specific ones for the team, because that is what would be most relevant. I imagine the stats may vary with the type of players you have and the spacing of players a coach prefers. Pat always had tremendous rebounders who would position themselves under the rim and dominate there for almost every close shot missed. However, I am not sure how great of a rebounder the Glory Johnsons and Nicky Anosikes would be for balls that are bouncing hard of the rim like some long shots do?

I have no analytics for that, just theory based on observations. This could be faulty, so I'm interested in any data available. But here goes:

In the half-court offense, bunnies (inside that protective half-circle) and layups are the most likely to have an offensive rebound due to the propensity of the shooter to get "mebounds"; also if two defensive players contest, there is usually an offensive player free to rebound in close proximity. This is followed by 3 pointers because they tend to be long caroms and end up 50/50 balls regardless of how well you box out. 15 footers seem to be the least likely to have an offensive rebound because the offensive players usually are not in good rebounding position and there isn't time to work around a good box out for the short carom.

 

[1reVOLver]

Uhh, ermmm… I am reading two lines of reasoning that don't quite intersect.
One person is speaking of “mid-range jumpers” and another interlocutor is discussing the problems with “a long 2”. For my old head, those are not the same distance from the hoop.

 

[37620VOL]

So in a nutshell.. I don't care about analytics ... I'm 55 damn years old and set in my ways.

NO need to bother me with this stuff...

I hate when Head Coaches go for it on 4th and 6 from the 50 yard line as well ....punt the damn ball. I blame it on the NERDS...

 

[mudcat1973]

Which scores more points?

100 3-point shots at 32% or 100 mid-range jumpers at 45%?

3 at 32% = 96 2pointes %45 =90 answer 3 pointers by 6 points

 

[brittannica]

I can think of few more beautiful shots than Rickea's midrange fade away.

 

[LadyVolFan222]

3 at 32% = 96 2pointes %45 =90 answer 3 pointers by 6 points

trouble is the lady vols are shooting 42 from 2 and 28 from 3...use those numbers

 

[mudcat1973]

trouble is the lady vols are shooting 42 from 2 and 28 from 3...use those numbers

42 x 2 84
28 x 3 84
Same points both ways.
Better shot selection by some.
Certain players after two or misses should pass than shot early in shot clock.
While your best three shooters should shot early if they have a good looking three pointers opportunit.

 

[Jax_Vol]

42 x 2 84
28 x 3 84
Same points both ways.
Better shot selection by some.
Certain players after two or misses should pass than shot early in shot clock.
While your best three shooters should shot early if they have a good looking three pointers opportunit.

The boys played Rice last Monday.

The Owls had a guy who was 0-16 shooting at one point. Unsure how he finished.


Got to be mighty confident in yourself to throw up another after missing fifteen straight..lol

 

[lvocd]

The Owls had a guy who was 0-16 shooting at one point. Unsure how he finished.


Got to be mighty confident in yourself to throw up another after missing fifteen straight..lol

That's not uncommon in the men's game, which I have always found to be inherently more driven by selfish play.

 

[Jax_Vol]

That's not uncommon in the men's game, which I have always found to be inherently more driven by selfish play.

I can see that

 

[37620VOL]

trouble is the lady vols are shooting 42 from 2 and 28 from 3...use those numbers

Got to filter out the layups because we would all take 100% layups if it were possible.

 

[knoxvol52]

Uhh, ermmm… I am reading two lines of reasoning that don't quite intersect.
One person is speaking of “mid-range jumpers” and another interlocutor is discussing the problems with “a long 2”. For my old head, those are not the same distance from the hoop.

I was referring to a 10-15 foot jump shot. I never said anything about a 18 foot jumper...

 

[1reVOLver]

I was referring to a 10-15 foot jump shot. I never said anything about a 18 foot jumper...

Yes, you were perfectly clear. Somebody else decided to misinterpret you, set up a “long 2” strawman, and then knocked it down.

 

[37620VOL]

Yes, you were perfectly clear. Somebody else decided to misinterpret you, set up a “long 2” strawman, and then knock it down.

I don't see anyone saying long 2. I said 15-footer.

 

[RetroVol]

I was referring to a 10-15 foot jump shot. I never said anything about a 18 foot jumper...

I realize stats have been rejected in this discussion, but I did a little looking. Apparently, "mid-range jumper" means anything over 4 feet out to the 3-point line. BUT, proprietary analytics available to coaches break it down within that broad "mid-range" designation and the result is "drive to the rim or kick it out for a three." When that drive-and-kick strategy results in an "open" catch-and-shoot 3-pointer the percentages for the 3pt attempt go up, while, likely the 2-point attempt would often be contested, step-back, off-the-dribble, etc. Anyway, main point is, college coaches are looking at data, generally and on their teams, that we don't see. For all I know, they have reliable data on practice situations.

But when the threes aren't falling, it's painful to watch!

 

[1reVOLver]

I don't see anyone saying long 2. I said 15-footer.

The "mid-range" point is just as much about getting the ball into the paint as it is about 3s. The best shot on the court is in the paint, the next best is a 3 pointer, and a long 2 is the worst.

I figured even you'd bite at points per attempt. Especially since you're ignoring rebound rate in your 3 vs. long 2 analysis, just like PPSA does!

The more successfully we rebound, the greater the disparity between a 3-value shot and a long-2 becomes.