GAME THREAD: @Alabama, Sunday, 1/18, 2 p.m., SEC Network

#626
#626
Volfan2012 said:
Do need an explanation of why the head was hurting I agree it wasn't from the push either had to be from hitting the floor because of the push or Barker has a career in acting after her basketball career is over.
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Her head didn’t hit thr floor, she grabber hear head right after the contact.
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#627
#627
KnoxLikeUs said:
I hear you. I didn’t view the 3s as the turning point of the game. It was the moment elite F Janiah Barker starting to attack the rim to score and Alyssa Latham (who has that dawg mentality) scored off a quick steal in the 1st quarter. To start the 2nd qtr, elite G Talaysia Cooper drilled a mid-range jumper and a nice bank shot. Next the freshmen Civil and Mia drain two 3s so it was a mix of offensive execution that change the game.
Now at 5-0 in SEC, you didn’t say this but I just read a poster trying to fit a narrative of it was encouraging for moments but they still wonder during the droughts how the team will compete against TX, SC, LSU, Oklahoma.
For one there’s no reason to group LSU, TX, Oklahoma, and SC away from the rest of the SEC. Oklahoma and LSU have already taken L’s. Beating Oklahoma a team that got drilled by Ole Miss who just loss to Georgia, doesn’t elevate LSU based on a win over Texas at or erase the weaknesses LSU still has as a team.
They still have question marks. All of these teams can be beatable. The SEC is wide open.
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You both left Vanderbilt out of the top tier.
 
#628
#628
Who is you both? I didn’t leave them out of anything. I said there’s no top tier. Vanderbilt is not better than any other ranked team in the SEC. If you think beating an overrated Michigan team is something great keep that same energy when they start getting blasted on the road when facing the upcoming SEC schedule.

chuckiepoo said:
You both left Vanderbilt out of the top tier.
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#630
#630
KnoxLikeUs said:
Who is you both? I didn’t leave them out of anything. I said there’s no top tier. Vanderbilt is not better than any other ranked team in the SEC. If you think beating an overrated Michigan team is something great keep that same energy when they start getting blasted on the road when facing the upcoming SEC schedule.
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The same overrated Michigan team you said would settle in and pull away from Vandy?
 
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#631
#631
BruisedOrange said:
Hope there's a game video posted eventually! Love to see this game and how we won down there. [edit: Thanks @Freak!]

I was impressed with Kristy Curry's press conference. She's building a program from a very different foundation than we have here. Very different coaching and communication style than CKC, but still classy. And her comments at the end on Pat will give your Big Orange heart a tug.

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Very impressive and of course I love Pat stories. Coach Curry is obviously at a different stage in her career than CKC but I do hope that CKC will be a little more congenial with the press. Her body language and comments give off a definite defensive/you are wasting my time vibe.
Pat was as steely and demanding as anyone I’ve ever seen but she also managed to create a family atmosphere for the team. I hope CKC will develop those EQ abilities/attributes.
 
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#632
#632
37620VOL said:
I appreciate the discussion, but anyone saying that with no nuance is very misinformed. I think a lot of people are still treating “Grinnell-style volume” and “efficient offense” as if they can’t coexist, and that’s just not how Kim Caldwell actually coaches. It’s important to separate the original Grinnell extremes from the adapted version Caldwell runs. Her goal has never been “shoot bad shots for the sake of shooting.” The goal is more total shot attempts than the opponent, while still hunting shots the staff considers good.

Caldwell has been very consistent on this point.

In a preseason media availability on November 19, 2024, she said: “We want to play fast, but fast doesn’t mean careless. Players still have to know if a shot is a good shot or a bad shot.”

That alone undercuts the idea that she encourages low-quality attempts.

Later, after early-season games where Tennessee’s pace was high but efficiency fluctuated, she said on December 8, 2024: “The pace isn’t the issue. The issue is recognizing which shots we’re supposed to take and which ones we pass up.”

Again, that’s not Grinnell caricature basketball. That’s pace plus selection. What people miss is that shot clock timing matters for efficiency. Taking shots earlier in the possession can actually increase shot quality, not reduce it. Earlier shots are often uncontested or lightly contested, before the defense is fully set. Early decisions reduce turnovers, because you’re not dribbling into traffic late in the clock. You avoid the worst shots in basketball: forced, late-clock heaves taken at 2–3 seconds because nothing developed. You want a quality shot on every possession, either a close to the basket shot or an open three. She has always said this from day one.

Caldwell addressed this on January 12, 2025, saying: “Late-clock shots are usually bad shots. If we know what we’re looking for, we shouldn’t be waiting until the end of the clock to find it.”

That’s a key philosophical difference from how critics describe her system. The emphasis on early offense isn’t “quick chucking,” it’s decision-making before the possession deteriorates. So no, volume advantage (through turnovers and rebounding) and efficiency aren’t mutually exclusive. You can increase total shot attempts by playing fast, pressing, and rebounding. You can maintain efficiency by defining which quick shots are acceptable and teaching players to recognize them. That’s why her teams can outshoot opponents in raw attempts, set three-point and scoring records, and still talk openly about improving shot selection.

The idea that Caldwell “scrapped efficiency” or “encourages bad shots” just doesn’t line up with what she’s actually said or coached. What she’s doing is closer to modern pace-and-space logic applied aggressively, not a blind copy of Grinnell’s most extreme elements. Fast basketball and smart basketball aren’t opposites. In her system, they’re supposed to reinforce each other.

All of these quotes are from her first season. She hasn't changed the message, but I think she has improved the delivery of the message and the players are starting to buy in and self enforce efficiency this season.
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Well stated.
 
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#635
#635
Lucy said:
Her body language and comments give off a definite defensive/you are wasting my time vibe.
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I don't get this, but of course, this kind of observation is massively subject to confirmation bias. However, what I get is a direct, no nonsense coach who answers honestly, maybe sometimes a little bit too much so, but will give a very short answer to a stupid question. Not disrespectful, but if a reporter asks a dumb, thoughtless question, she doesn't bail them out and just moves on to the next question.
 
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#636
#636
Orange Maniac said:
What I saw, the flagrant should not have been on 31. The worst part was the girl in front of 31 had barker by the arm and swung her around like the old wrestling whip and slammed Barker into 31. I may be wrong but that’s what I saw.
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I'm glad someone finally noticed and commented on this portion of the "play". Karly Weathers, who hooked and swung Barker was concerned enough that when they announced the review after the play she tried to talk to the ref immediately and was directed back to her team huddle. My jaded self believes that she was trying to avoid a foul call. But, all the posters talking about Barker swinging out of the screen or ducking as she turned have, in my opinion, missed the most important action in the series of events and have placed too much blame on our own player. Just my, not so humble, opinion.

Jim
 
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#637
#637
37620VOL said:
I appreciate the discussion, but anyone saying that with no nuance is very misinformed. I think a lot of people are still treating “Grinnell-style volume” and “efficient offense” as if they can’t coexist, and that’s just not how Kim Caldwell actually coaches. It’s important to separate the original Grinnell extremes from the adapted version Caldwell runs. Her goal has never been “shoot bad shots for the sake of shooting.” The goal is more total shot attempts than the opponent, while still hunting shots the staff considers good.

Caldwell has been very consistent on this point.

In a preseason media availability on November 19, 2024, she said: “We want to play fast, but fast doesn’t mean careless. Players still have to know if a shot is a good shot or a bad shot.”

That alone undercuts the idea that she encourages low-quality attempts.

Later, after early-season games where Tennessee’s pace was high but efficiency fluctuated, she said on December 8, 2024: “The pace isn’t the issue. The issue is recognizing which shots we’re supposed to take and which ones we pass up.”

Again, that’s not Grinnell caricature basketball. That’s pace plus selection. What people miss is that shot clock timing matters for efficiency. Taking shots earlier in the possession can actually increase shot quality, not reduce it. Earlier shots are often uncontested or lightly contested, before the defense is fully set. Early decisions reduce turnovers, because you’re not dribbling into traffic late in the clock. You avoid the worst shots in basketball: forced, late-clock heaves taken at 2–3 seconds because nothing developed. You want a quality shot on every possession, either a close to the basket shot or an open three. She has always said this from day one.

Caldwell addressed this on January 12, 2025, saying: “Late-clock shots are usually bad shots. If we know what we’re looking for, we shouldn’t be waiting until the end of the clock to find it.”

That’s a key philosophical difference from how critics describe her system. The emphasis on early offense isn’t “quick chucking,” it’s decision-making before the possession deteriorates. So no, volume advantage (through turnovers and rebounding) and efficiency aren’t mutually exclusive. You can increase total shot attempts by playing fast, pressing, and rebounding. You can maintain efficiency by defining which quick shots are acceptable and teaching players to recognize them. That’s why her teams can outshoot opponents in raw attempts, set three-point and scoring records, and still talk openly about improving shot selection.

The idea that Caldwell “scrapped efficiency” or “encourages bad shots” just doesn’t line up with what she’s actually said or coached. What she’s doing is closer to modern pace-and-space logic applied aggressively, not a blind copy of Grinnell’s most extreme elements. Fast basketball and smart basketball aren’t opposites. In her system, they’re supposed to reinforce each other.

All of these quotes are from her first season. She hasn't changed the message, but I think she has improved the delivery of the message and the players are starting to buy in and self enforce efficiency this season.
Click to expand...

@37620VOL, just wanted you to know that this was so much about the CKC's "System" that I posted it in the thread: "The Kim Caldwell System." I happen to agree with you, but that's not the reason for the cross-posting. I just think it says some things, or says some things more clearly, than they've gotten expressed before and they ought to be reflected in that thread. Thanks for posting!
 
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#643
#643
Volfan2012 said:
Do need an explanation of why the head was hurting I agree it wasn't from the push either had to be from hitting the floor because of the push or Barker has a career in acting after her basketball career is over.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, for me it was a "girl who cried wolf" situation. Several times this year she's gone down, stayed on the floor while play continued, and had to be helped off, only to come right back in. If it was hockey, she would have gotten embellishment calls.
This time she got whacked hard on the side of the head.
 
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#644
#644
RetroVol said:
Today's win is a plus, but we had a size advantage that certainly didn't show on the boards. And we did spread our minutes more, even with hampering factors. Here's Alabama's starters:


StarterPosClassToday vs Tennessee
Naomi Jones — 6'4"FR-So30 MIN, 5 PTS, 1-3 FG, 0-0 3PT, 3-6 FT, 11 REB, 1 AST, 1 TO, 0 STL, 6 BLK
Diana Collins — 5'9"GJr33 MIN, 9 PTS, 4-9 FG, 1-4 3PT, 0-0 FT, 5 REB, 2 AST, 3 TO, 1 STL, 0 BLK
Ta’Mia Scott — 6'0"GSr28 MIN, 2 PTS, 1-7 FG, 0-4 3PT, 0-0 FT, 3 REB, 2 AST, 2 TO, 1 STL, 2 BLK
Karly Weathers — 5'11"GSr36 MIN, 11 PTS, 4-11 FG, 3-7 3PT, 0-0 FT, 7 REB, 0 AST, 0 TO, 3 STL, 0 BLK
Jessica Timmons — 5'8"GR-Sr38 MIN, 22 PTS, 7-16 FG, 3-8 3PT, 5-5 FT, 3 REB, 3 AST, 2 TO, 0 STL, 0 BLK
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Yeah, the home court advantage was likely negated by the fact that we had a full week's rest while Bama had played Monday and Thursday before our game. Tired legs made a big difference in the fourth quarter. Throw in the unavailable Cody and the distinct advantage went to us. That's just how the cards fell, but we have dodged the injury bug so far. We didn't need Cooper against hapless Arkansas.
 
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#645
#645
creekdipper said:
Yeah, the home court advantage was likely negated by the fact that we had a full week's rest while Bama had played Monday and Thursday before our game. Tired legs made a big difference in the fourth quarter. Throw in the unavailable Cody and the distinct advantage went to us. That's just how the cards fell, but we have dodged the injury bug so far. We didn't need Cooper against hapless Arkansas.
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Have we dodged the injury bug? I've heard nothing about Barker -- which is either good, or bad.
 
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#647
#647
papatomany said:
Unfortunately, for me it was a "girl who cried wolf" situation. Several times this year she's gone down, stayed on the floor while play continued, and had to be helped off, only to come right back in. If it was hockey, she would have gotten embellishment calls.
This time she got whacked hard on the side of the head.
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As a player or coach, the effort (and expectation) was to push (or shame) players through that immediate reaction and quickly into objectively assessing any actual injury.

But as a counselor or minister, I've come to accept that incidents can happen to a person when they're too young to articulate or reason, and they will always have that "dramatic" reaction to pain or injury. It just got hardwired into their psyche near the beginning, and didn't (or couldn't) get nurtured out of them through childhood into adolescence.

The surprise factor for Barker, literally turning blindly into a figurative brick wall, makes it even more understandable--if still embarrassing as a fan to observe.

Guys are probably desensitized by watching all those Three Stooges, or maybe Donald O'Connor! ;)
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#648
#648
BruisedOrange said:
As a player or coach, the effort (and expectation) was to push (or shame) players through that immediate reaction and quickly into objectively assessing any actual injury.

But as a counselor or minister, I've come to accept that incidents can happen to a person when they're too young to articulate or reason, and they will always have that "dramatic" reaction to pain or injury. It just got hardwired into their psyche near the beginning, and didn't (or couldn't) get nurtured out of them though childhood into adolescence.

The surprise factor for Barker literally turning blindly into a figurative brick wall makes it even more understandable, if still embarrassing as a fan to observe.

Guys are probably desensitized by watching Three Stooges, or maybe Donald O'Connor! ;)
View attachment 808806
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I appreciate the thought, but
a) you left out Looney Toons, and
b) there may well be a few players who hyper-react to every twinge due to some repressed childhood trauma; but I believe that there are way more who hyper-react due to plain ol' embarrassment.
I'm not desensitized to injuries, in fact, my kids think I'm a wimp for not watching replays of obvious injuries -- but a fair criticism would be that my flop-detecting radar has been damaged in recent years by overload. For whatever reason, Barker flops; but this time she didn't.
 
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#649
#649
RetroVol said:
True. But we lost Ruby for the season. I think we are recovering, slowly, but that one hurt.
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U can’t really recover, that production will be missed. If she was dismissed in the offseason, we could have added someone else. For example if we had Ruby and Janiah was out for this game, I would feel better about it.
 
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#650
#650
It’s great to be a Tennessee Vol🍊!
Ain’t no recovery when you already on top.
The 20-21 months of success got a lot of the naysayers shook.

The 5-0 SEC start doing a lot of the damage to the critics agenda and it’s showing.



 
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