GAME THREAD: @Alabama, Sunday, 1/18, 2 p.m., SEC Network

#601
#601
glv98 said:
Nah. If that “push” caused that fall and that amount of head pain either I’m not seeing something or JB has some other issue. That wasn’t a foul, much less a flagrant.

I think she’ll be good to go Thursday. Glad she’s ok.
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Do need an explanation of why the head was hurting I agree it wasn't from the push either had to be from hitting the floor because of the push or Barker has a career in acting after her basketball career is over.
 
#602
#602
glv98 said:
What is “it”? Are we talking about the glancing push to the chest? I’m confused bc Barker seemed to be in the throes of a head or face injury.
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She was so behaving so dramatically and crying out so loudly that for a minute there I got scared she was having an aneurysm. Seriously. That crossed my mind. The way she was holding her head, writhing, kicking off her shoes. It was scary. 😳

On replay I didn’t see much. I’m interested to hear what actually happened.

Earlier in the game the player on the other team got whacked In the head so hard it made her eyes water, yet she hardly registered it even happened. I told my friend, “Now THAT’s the way I handled injuries back in the day!” 😅
 
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#603
#603
37620VOL said:
IMO we passed on some 3s we should have taken. One that especially comes to mind was Lauren Hurst being wide open in the corner on a kick out with 4 seconds on the shot clock. For whatever reason she didn't take the shot, passed to Civil, and it put Civil in a really bad spot.
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yes, I remember that and really want Lauren to capitalize in her limited time in the game. It was a 3 point location that she has made shots from before. There were a few other times that we passed too many times where gimme two pointers were not taken followed by a pass to a player who was more closely guarded. Whoever would have thought that overpassing would ever be an issue for this team? I will take this "problem" any day compared to the me-ball that was evident earlier in the year.
 
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#604
#604
37620VOL said:
Strawman. No one has ever said this except those that twist early interviews of CKC.
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What????? Been said many, many times. Most attempts, esp 3s,is one of the tentpoles of the
Grinnell system.

Fortunately, this was the first part of that system she scrapped. It just took awhile for the players to start playing this way. They did after all break 2 records with the quick chuck system.
 
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#608
#608
LV renaissance said:
yes, I remember that and really want Lauren to capitalize in her limited time in the game. It was a 3 point location that she has made shots from before. There were a few other times that we passed too many times where gimme two pointers were not taken followed by a pass to a player who was more closely guarded. Whoever would have thought that overpassing would ever be an issue for this team? I will take this "problem" any day compared to the me-ball that was evident earlier in the year.
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It is a good problem and I think it’s just our players trying to settle in to the new non system.
lvocd said:
She was so behaving so dramatically and crying out so loudly that for a minute there I got scared she was having an aneurysm. Seriously. That crossed my mind. The way she was holding her head, writhing, kicking off her shoes. It was scary. 😳

On replay I didn’t see much. I’m interested to hear what actually happened.

Earlier in the game the player on the other team got whacked In the head so hard it made her eyes water, yet she hardly registered it even happened. I told my friend, “Now THAT’s the way I handled injuries back in the day!” 😅
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Some players tend to have extreme panic about any injury. Remember Sam Spencer last year? She went straight to the locker room almost every time she even got nicked. And she wasn’t a player given to dramatics. The ultra extreme case of that was Ivory Latta fm No Car who practically had to be carried off on a stretcher about five times a game. Sports psychologist worked extensively with her.


That said we don’t actually know and it may turn out she did knock her noggin on the floor or something and did sustain an injury. I just hope she’s OK.
 
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#611
#611
glv98 said:
It's probably my elderly eyes, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing. In fact, in the SLO MO clip I'm not seeing contact at all except 31 making a slight push toward JB's chest. Whatever happened must have happened just before the slow MO clip. I couldn't catch it in regular speed either. Maybe happened right before slo mo started.

Good news is I'm no longer worried about JB having a concussion. I don't think there was contact to that degree.
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That clip is a very bad angle on the incident. The SEC network replay (from a camera under the basket) gave a much better look. Essentially, JB was bending down as she was moving toward the basket and 31 lifted up her right arm/elbow and caught JB solidly across the neck and jaw line. It was a hard shot.

I am sure they are doing X-rays for a fracture along the jaw line (hopefully it is just a bruise) and yeah there is a definite concussion risk
 
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#613
#613
lvocd said:
She was so behaving so dramatically and crying out so loudly that for a minute there I got scared she was having an aneurysm. Seriously. That crossed my mind. The way she was holding her head, writhing, kicking off her shoes. It was scary. 😳

On replay I didn’t see much. I’m interested to hear what actually happened.

Earlier in the game the player on the other team got whacked In the head so hard it made her eyes water, yet she hardly registered it even happened. I told my friend, “Now THAT’s the way I handled injuries back in the day!” 😅
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Did you not see the replay of the event on the SEC network (from a camera under the basket)? The clip link from VOlfan2012 is a bad angle. Janiah took a very shot to the neck and jawline. She was cutting hard to the basket with her head down (bent over) as the Bama lifted up her arm and elbow and made full contact (whether by accident or intention is hard to tell). An upward elbow to the jawline of that type will take down an MMA fighter.
 
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#614
#614
Volfan2012 said:


According to the rules of basketball this is a flagrant foul. It was not a play on the basketball. The Refs were pathetic in this game as usual.
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There was a much better replay in the game video at the 01:17:23 mark that shows Barker slipping the screen in a pick-and-roll move but wheeling straight into 31's shoulder, as 31 was stepping up to impede Barker's access to the lane. Bang-bang, no time or space to allow for intent before contact.

I'd have to call clickbait on that "controversial call" video. IMHO
 
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#618
#618
LV renaissance said:
I should sue you for a HIPPA violation of my medical privacy. Now everyone knows about my mental health during the game!
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Won't work. I unsuccessfully tried to sue YouTube for an embarrassing whiffle bat incident caught on video.
Court said I had no standing. I said, "Exactly! That's why I'm suing!"
🥁❗
 
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#620
#620
glv98 said:
What????? Been said many, many times. Most attempts, esp 3s,is one of the tentpoles of the
Grinnell system.

Fortunately, this was the first part of that system she scrapped. It just took awhile for the players to start playing this way. They did after all break 2 records with the quick chuck system.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the discussion, but anyone saying that with no nuance is very misinformed. I think a lot of people are still treating “Grinnell-style volume” and “efficient offense” as if they can’t coexist, and that’s just not how Kim Caldwell actually coaches. It’s important to separate the original Grinnell extremes from the adapted version Caldwell runs. Her goal has never been “shoot bad shots for the sake of shooting.” The goal is more total shot attempts than the opponent, while still hunting shots the staff considers good.

Caldwell has been very consistent on this point.

In a preseason media availability on November 19, 2024, she said: “We want to play fast, but fast doesn’t mean careless. Players still have to know if a shot is a good shot or a bad shot.”

That alone undercuts the idea that she encourages low-quality attempts.

Later, after early-season games where Tennessee’s pace was high but efficiency fluctuated, she said on December 8, 2024: “The pace isn’t the issue. The issue is recognizing which shots we’re supposed to take and which ones we pass up.”

Again, that’s not Grinnell caricature basketball. That’s pace plus selection. What people miss is that shot clock timing matters for efficiency. Taking shots earlier in the possession can actually increase shot quality, not reduce it. Earlier shots are often uncontested or lightly contested, before the defense is fully set. Early decisions reduce turnovers, because you’re not dribbling into traffic late in the clock. You avoid the worst shots in basketball: forced, late-clock heaves taken at 2–3 seconds because nothing developed. You want a quality shot on every possession, either a close to the basket shot or an open three. She has always said this from day one.

Caldwell addressed this on January 12, 2025, saying: “Late-clock shots are usually bad shots. If we know what we’re looking for, we shouldn’t be waiting until the end of the clock to find it.”

That’s a key philosophical difference from how critics describe her system. The emphasis on early offense isn’t “quick chucking,” it’s decision-making before the possession deteriorates. So no, volume advantage (through turnovers and rebounding) and efficiency aren’t mutually exclusive. You can increase total shot attempts by playing fast, pressing, and rebounding. You can maintain efficiency by defining which quick shots are acceptable and teaching players to recognize them. That’s why her teams can outshoot opponents in raw attempts, set three-point and scoring records, and still talk openly about improving shot selection.

The idea that Caldwell “scrapped efficiency” or “encourages bad shots” just doesn’t line up with what she’s actually said or coached. What she’s doing is closer to modern pace-and-space logic applied aggressively, not a blind copy of Grinnell’s most extreme elements. Fast basketball and smart basketball aren’t opposites. In her system, they’re supposed to reinforce each other.

All of these quotes are from her first season. She hasn't changed the message, but I think she has improved the delivery of the message and the players are starting to buy in and self enforce efficiency this season.
 
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#621
#621
glv98 said:
I see the contact now. Not flagrant, not even a foul. That first video is lying bs clickbait. Hope JB is ok.
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Again, on the SEC network replay, it looks worse than in that screen shot. JB was cutting hard into the lane and 31 was pivoting with speed as her arm/elbow was making an upward motion. A lot of force was generated on that moment of collision. There is reason for concern.
 
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#623
#623
madtownvol said:
Again, on the SEC network replay, it looks worse than in that screen shot. JB was cutting hard into the lane and 31 was pivoting with speed as her arm/elbow was making an upward motion. A lot of force was generated on that moment of collision. There is reason for concern.
Click to expand...

Hoping it's a stinger or something similar that, while initially very painful, resolves quickly. (But hopefully not a stinger like David Sanders had, obviously)
 
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#624
#624
37620VOL said:
I appreciate the discussion, but anyone saying that with no nuance is very misinformed. I think a lot of people are still treating “Grinnell-style volume” and “efficient offense” as if they can’t coexist, and that’s just not how Kim Caldwell actually coaches. It’s important to separate the original Grinnell extremes from the adapted version Caldwell runs. Her goal has never been “shoot bad shots for the sake of shooting.” The goal is more total shot attempts than the opponent, while still hunting shots the staff considers good.

Caldwell has been very consistent on this point.

In a preseason media availability on November 19, 2024, she said: “We want to play fast, but fast doesn’t mean careless. Players still have to know if a shot is a good shot or a bad shot.”

That alone undercuts the idea that she encourages low-quality attempts.

Later, after early-season games where Tennessee’s pace was high but efficiency fluctuated, she said on December 8, 2024: “The pace isn’t the issue. The issue is recognizing which shots we’re supposed to take and which ones we pass up.”

Again, that’s not Grinnell caricature basketball. That’s pace plus selection. What people miss is that shot clock timing matters for efficiency. Taking shots earlier in the possession can actually increase shot quality, not reduce it. Earlier shots are often uncontested or lightly contested, before the defense is fully set. Early decisions reduce turnovers, because you’re not dribbling into traffic late in the clock. You avoid the worst shots in basketball: forced, late-clock heaves taken at 2–3 seconds because nothing developed. You want a quality shot on every possession, either a close to the basket shot or an open three. She has always said this from day one.

Caldwell addressed this on January 12, 2025, saying: “Late-clock shots are usually bad shots. If we know what we’re looking for, we shouldn’t be waiting until the end of the clock to find it.”

That’s a key philosophical difference from how critics describe her system. The emphasis on early offense isn’t “quick chucking,” it’s decision-making before the possession deteriorates. So no, volume advantage (through turnovers and rebounding) and efficiency aren’t mutually exclusive. You can increase total shot attempts by playing fast, pressing, and rebounding. You can maintain efficiency by defining which quick shots are acceptable and teaching players to recognize them. That’s why her teams can outshoot opponents in raw attempts, set three-point and scoring records, and still talk openly about improving shot selection.

The idea that Caldwell “scrapped efficiency” or “encourages bad shots” just doesn’t line up with what she’s actually said or coached. What she’s doing is closer to modern pace-and-space logic applied aggressively, not a blind copy of Grinnell’s most extreme elements. Fast basketball and smart basketball aren’t opposites. In her system, they’re supposed to reinforce each other.

All of these quotes are from her first season. She hasn't changed the message, but I think she has improved the delivery of the message and the players are starting to buy in and self enforce efficiency this season.
Click to expand...
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t think our team saw the offense that way previously. Maybe it is just too nuanced to teach and learn.

I’m just relieved she’s reverted to relatively normal game plan and subbing patterns. Of course she wants a fast pace and pressure D when it makes sense. Just like every other coach. I’m excited to see how this team plays free of lower division experimentation.
 
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