Game Thread: #23/25 LADY VOLS VS. #8/8 MISSISSIPPI STATE

[Amb3096]

I'm looking at 20-9 maybe with us winning
the last 3 games. If we win any of the next
3 it will be a blessing. Turnovers will tell the
story whether we finish well or not. JMO

No Ayanna Mitchell = a comfortable win @ LSU.

 

[Rooster1]

Okay.....
So this was disappointing because we weren’t able to put our best team on the floor.
I don’t however believe that is why we lost.
I also do NOT believe we lost because of:
Coaching
Refereeing
Lack of talent
Lack of desire
Lack of toughness
Lack of a work ethic

I believe our losses to top teams are because of a lack of experience. Experience can not be taught.
I am going to use another team to prove my point - Notre Dame

First can we all agree that Muffet McGraw is a top coach?
32 years head coach ND
77% win percent
9 final fours
2 national championships 2001 and 2018

Second can we agree that a program does not achieve those things without knowing how to work hard, have high expectations, develop tough kids?

Third can we agree that Notre Dame has a lot of talent?
Class ratings for ND
2016 - #5
2017 - #19
2018 - #7
2019 - # 11 (2 kids both 5 stars, not top 10 only because of small class)
Just as an aside these rankings over a 4 year period are similar to UT.

As of tonight before their game finished they were 8 and 14 having lost to the likes of -
Florida Gulf Coast
South Dakota State
Depaul
They lost to UConn by 24
Lost to NC State by 34
Lost to Louisville by 32

Tonight they started 2 Srs, 1 Jr, 2 So, 1 fr

But do these upperclassmen have a lot of experience? No they do not. ND graduated virtually all of their starters the last couple of years. So and Fr obviously don’t have much if any experience.

ND, barring a miracle will not make the tournament this year.

So what is ND missing? .....players that have been there before.

In fairness to our gang here I’m sure folks on ND boards are losing their minds. I’m sure Muffet has lost her edge. I’m sure their kids were overrated. I’m sure they are lazy, out of shape, lacking in basketball IQ and probably walk all over Mr Wilson’s lawn.

But I bet the same kids will be better next year and even better the next year.

I also feel absolutely positive that given more experience, our two 5/4 star Freshmen will be miles better next year. I believe that our really good sophomores,which let’s be honest did not get much court time last year, will be lights out because of the experience they are getting this year. Rennia as a Senior should be 1st team SEC and perhaps AA.

I know it is hard but we probably need to be patient. The last few years have undoubtedly used up our reservoir of patience.

But, think of this, we could be ND fans!

 

[Rooster1]

Okay.....
So this was disappointing because we weren’t able to put our best team on the floor.
I don’t however believe that is why we lost.
I also do NOT believe we lost because of:
Coaching
Refereeing
Lack of talent
Lack of desire
Lack of toughness
Lack of a work ethic

I believe our losses to top teams are because of a lack of experience. Experience can not be taught.
I am going to use another team to prove my point - Notre Dame

First can we all agree that Muffet McGraw is a top coach?
32 years head coach ND
77% win percent
9 final fours
2 national championships 2001 and 2018

Second can we agree that a program does not achieve those things without knowing how to work hard, have high expectations, develop tough kids?

Third can we agree that Notre Dame has a lot of talent?
Class ratings for ND
2016 - #5
2017 - #19
2018 - #7
2019 - # 11 (2 kids both 5 stars, not top 10 only because of small class)
Just as an aside these rankings over a 4 year period are similar to UT.

As of tonight before their game finished they were 8 and 14 having lost to the likes of -
Florida Gulf Coast
South Dakota State
Depaul
They lost to UConn by 24
Lost to NC State by 34
Lost to Louisville by 32

Tonight they started 2 Srs, 1 Jr, 2 So, 1 fr

But do these upperclassmen have a lot of experience? No they do not. ND graduated virtually all of their starters the last couple of years. So and Fr obviously don’t have much if any experience.

ND, barring a miracle will not make the tournament this year.

So what is ND missing? .....players that have been there before.

In fairness to our gang here I’m sure folks on ND boards are losing their minds. I’m sure Muffet has lost her edge. I’m sure their kids were overrated. I’m sure they are lazy, out of shape, lacking in basketball IQ and probably walk all over Mr Wilson’s lawn.

But I bet the same kids will be better next year and even better the next year.

I also feel absolutely positive that given more experience, our two 5/4 star Freshmen will be miles better next year. I believe that our really good sophomores,which let’s be honest did not get much court time last year, will be lights out because of the experience they are getting this year. Rennia as a Senior should be 1st team SEC and perhaps AA.

I know it is hard but we probably need to be patient. The last few years have undoubtedly used up our reservoir of patience.

But, think of this, we could be ND fans!

ND finds itself where it is today because they missed on several of their recruits, over a period of years. Plain and simple, they missed and the analysts missed. You don't need experience to win, its nice but not absolutely necessary. You absolutely need talent though.

 

[gule]

Kentucky’s men prove that every year.

 

[Lucy]

Kentucky’s men prove that every year.

Actually I think Kentucky’s men prove my point. They are Uber talented but inexperienced and underperform relative to their talent almost every year. How ‘bout those Purple Aces!?!?!

 

[SGMVols]

No Ayanna Mitchell = a comfortable win @ LSU.

The trouble with that is the selection committee may not consider that a quality win now, and we badly need one. They factor in who played and who didn’t when they evaluate a team’s wins and losses. It would also make it much worse for us if we lose.

 

[Lucy]

ND finds itself where it is today because they missed on several of their recruits, over a period of years. Plain and simple, they missed and the analysts missed. You don't need experience to win, its nice but not absolutely necessary. You absolutely need talent though.

Their class ratings certainly don’t reflect a lot of misses and that’s a lot of bad analysts to go from NC to 8-14. Also, I did not say you didn’t need talent. I said even talent needs experience.

 

[Amb3096]

ND finds itself where it is today because they missed on several of their recruits, over a period of years. Plain and simple, they missed and the analysts missed. You don't need experience to win, its nice but not absolutely necessary. You absolutely need talent though.

They also were hurt by injuries, transfers and early departures. This would be a different team if Jackie Young didn't graduate early and Patterson/Patberg didn't transfer.

 

[Volfan2012]

Okay.....
So this was disappointing because we weren’t able to put our best team on the floor.
I don’t however believe that is why we lost.
I also do NOT believe we lost because of:
Coaching
Refereeing
Lack of talent
Lack of desire
Lack of toughness
Lack of a work ethic

I believe our losses to top teams are because of a lack of experience. Experience can not be taught.
I am going to use another team to prove my point - Notre Dame

First can we all agree that Muffet McGraw is a top coach?
32 years head coach ND
77% win percent
9 final fours
2 national championships 2001 and 2018

Second can we agree that a program does not achieve those things without knowing how to work hard, have high expectations, develop tough kids?

Third can we agree that Notre Dame has a lot of talent?
Class ratings for ND
2016 - #5
2017 - #19
2018 - #7
2019 - # 11 (2 kids both 5 stars, not top 10 only because of small class)
Just as an aside these rankings over a 4 year period are similar to UT.

As of tonight before their game finished they were 8 and 14 having lost to the likes of -
Florida Gulf Coast
South Dakota State
Depaul
They lost to UConn by 24
Lost to NC State by 34
Lost to Louisville by 32

Tonight they started 2 Srs, 1 Jr, 2 So, 1 fr

But do these upperclassmen have a lot of experience? No they do not. ND graduated virtually all of their starters the last couple of years. So and Fr obviously don’t have much if any experience.

ND, barring a miracle will not make the tournament this year.

So what is ND missing? .....players that have been there before.

In fairness to our gang here I’m sure folks on ND boards are losing their minds. I’m sure Muffet has lost her edge. I’m sure their kids were overrated. I’m sure they are lazy, out of shape, lacking in basketball IQ and probably walk all over Mr Wilson’s lawn.

But I bet the same kids will be better next year and even better the next year.

I also feel absolutely positive that given more experience, our two 5/4 star Freshmen will be miles better next year. I believe that our really good sophomores,which let’s be honest did not get much court time last year, will be lights out because of the experience they are getting this year. Rennia as a Senior should be 1st team SEC and perhaps AA.

I know it is hard but we probably need to be patient. The last few years have undoubtedly used up our reservoir of patience.

But, think of this, we could be ND fans!

Totally agree fantastic post. Lack of experience, time in a particular system, and lack of upperclassmen leadership are all key to Tennessee this season. I am very satisfied with what we've accomplished thus far. Like I've told everyone here look at Schaeffer and Dawns first three seasons took them that long to win at a rate were winning at now. Both had two losing or subpar seasons their first two as coach.

 

[Amb3096]

The trouble with that is the selection committee may not consider that a quality win now, and we badly need one. They factor in who played and who didn’t when they evaluate a team’s wins and losses. It would also make it much worse for us if we lose.

It all depends if LSU can win without Ayanna. Tennessee already beat them when she played. As long as LSU doesn't free-fall in February, they will be considered quality wins.

 

[Volfan2012]

Their class ratings certainly don’t reflect a lot of misses and that’s a lot of bad analysts to go from NC to 8-14. Also, I did not say you didn’t need talent. I said even talent needs experience.

Wasn't misses on recruiting their entire group of experienced players left and Notre Dame had mostly players left that were talented and a lot of five stars but none had played in her system at all and it takes time for players to learn. They suffered also from lack of players left that could help the younger players adjust.

 

[Volfan2012]

It all depends if LSU can win without Ayanna. Tennessee already beat them when she played. As long as LSU doesn't free-fall in February, they will be considered quality wins.

We would have to lose every game we have left to not make the NCAA and surely that want happen. 20 wins definitely gets us in and probably 19. The rpi is 45 sixth best in the SEC and an 8th seed right now. No way we drop much from that 8 seed if we go 3 and 3. I am hoping we can go 5 and 1 and that 8 seed hopefully a 6.

 

[Orange Maniac]

How many players did we put on the floor last night that were starters last year? How many of the players we put on the floor last night played a ton of minutes last year? New team, new coach, new system not completely installed, a new way of doing things, yet most think we should just waltz into the Final Four and beat all the top ten teams along the way. It's a world of instant gratification and unrealistic expectations.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Does Ms State really have more talent than we have?

No, despite this recent narrative that Kellie inherited an empty cupboard. MSU is simply a much better coached team.

Losing Davis sucked, but it's not the reason they had 23 turnovers. The fact that we're approaching mid-February and turnovers are still this much of an issue is ridiculous...

 

[Rooster1]

Wasn't misses on recruiting their entire group of experienced players left and Notre Dame had mostly players left that were talented and a lot of five stars but none had played in her system at all and it takes time for players to learn. They suffered also from lack of players left that could help the younger players adjust.

I got through that post, had to reread it several times for clarity due to the boycott on punctuations. If I indeed understand your thought pattern now, you believe ND did not miss on several (or any) recruits the past few years, or at least you feel that is not the central issue to their recent demise. Now, go ask any ND fan in the "know" and they will explain that in the past 3 cycles they have had misses on highly rated players each cycle, and it caught up to them.

 

[Hoosier]

No Ayanna Mitchell = a comfortable win @ LSU.

dangerous thinking -- hope the team doesn't think that

 

[Darth_Vol]

dangerous thinking -- hope the team doesn't think that

Agreed, with 20+ turnovers every game there are no givens with this team...

 

[Amb3096]

How many players did we put on the floor last night that were starters last year? How many of the players we put on the floor last night played a ton of minutes last year? New team, new coach, new system not completely installed, a new way of doing things, yet most think we should just waltz into the Final Four and beat all the top ten teams along the way. It's a world of instant gratification and unrealistic expectations.

MSST had 1 player who was a starter last year. PG and Center (arguably the two most important positions) averaged very few minutes last season. PF missed most of last year with an injury.

I get that Tennessee didn't have the most experienced roster, but neither did Stanford, SC or MSST.

 

[VolBall09]

No Ayanna Mitchell = a comfortable win @ LSU.

I agree. I don’t think they can hang. Unless we play down to them we should win comfortably. I suspect their guards will struggle against us again, we are just too big for them.

 

[Orange Maniac]

MSST had 1 player who was a starter last year. PG and Center (arguably the two most important positions) averaged very few minutes last season. PF missed most of last year with an injury.

I get that Tennessee didn't have the most experienced roster, but neither did Stanford, SC or MSST.

Did they have a new coach and a new system after what was a run of questionable coaching? Not quite the same situation now is it?

 

[Volfan2012]

I got through that post, had to reread it several times for clarity due to the boycott on punctuations. If I indeed understand your thought pattern now, you believe ND did not miss on several (or any) recruits the past few years, or at least you feel that is not the central issue to their recent demise. Now, go ask any ND fan in the "know" and they will explain that in the past 3 cycles they have had misses on highly rated players each cycle, and it caught up to them.

Everybody has misses they recruited plenty not the reason they are down. They have a load of top rated players but few have any experience and few have been through the system there other than this season. Why would I want to talk to the green people a lot like talking to chicken people.

 

[Rooster1]

Everybody has misses they recruited plenty not the reason they are down. They have a load of top rated players but few have any experience and few have been through the system there other than this season. Why would I want to talk to the green people a lot like talking to chicken people.

Maybe you would if you were interested in really understanding their situation, but you would not of course if your intent is to run your own uniformed spin on things.


Here is a quote from their site from one of many fans in agreement:

"
We got spoiled with Bri, Marina, Arike and JY all in a row with Jess added to the mix. But even if there hadn't been the recent transfers, Nixon, Patterson, Abby, DC, Marta and Destiny aren't NC caliber players. Will Gilbert take the next step?

We need to cast a wider net to make sure we don't live or die with small recruiting classes that don't pan out and leave us (gulp) "looking to close the talent gap with MSU"

 

[Volfan2012]

Maybe you would if you were interested in really understanding their situation, but you would not of course if your intent is to run your own uniformed spin on things.

Count up their five stars not denying they missed on some players every school does. Still everyone in their starting five was a five star excepting the Stanford transfer and she was a highly rated player as well.

Women's Basketball This is their roster a lot of highly rated and five star players on there. Their situation is too many new players in the lineup that have never played in the system just like Tennessee this season. They have been a turnover machine as well just like Tennessee. When they get more experience as a team and players get adapted to the system they will again begin to rise. They lost all five starters and we lost four starters both in a similar situation except they didn't have their post because of injury for a long while now that she is back they are starting to win a little. To add they still have 13 players and as far as I am concerned don't care if they ever win another game. You seem to want to implicate that they have no talent well then blame Hoopgurlz and Prospect Nation because a lot of these girls on their roster are very highly rated.

 

[Volfan2012]

Maybe you would if you were interested in really understanding their situation, but you would not of course if your intent is to run your own uniformed spin on things.


Here is a quote from their site from one of many fans in agreement:

"
We got spoiled with Bri, Marina, Arike and JY all in a row with Jess added to the mix. But even if there hadn't been the recent transfers, Nixon, Patterson, Abby, DC, Marta and Destiny aren't NC caliber players. Will Gilbert take the next step?

We need to cast a wider net to make sure we don't live or die with small recruiting classes that don't pan out and leave us (gulp) "looking to close the talent gap with MSU"

To add I can't help it if their load of five star players they did recruit didn't pan out or are not playing at the level they would like to . Maybe they should fire McGraw maybe she is the problem.

 

[creekdipper]

The irony is that these same 5-star recruits that some people disparage Kellie for failing to land have suddenly now become "misses."

Worth pointing out that the returning ND players may not have gotten a whole lot of game experience, but they did get the priceless benefit of working daily against some of the best in WCBB. Plus, they were around a winning culture at the highest level.

None of our players can say that.