Game Thread: (16/19) Lady Vols at (20/18) Kentucky

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...I have had back surgery on my L4/L5 and I doubt it's impacting her that much since she played 35 minutes and I didn't see how she was impacted. I guess you have more insight to that than me. And she has been shooting poorly most of the season. How long has her back been bad? She has had poor shooting games all season. It's not just missing shots, it's her decision making on those shots. You don't see that as a coach?...
.

What I see is I am going to get red in the face talking to you....Time for me to realize I am once again,
talking to a wall.jpg
 

creekdipper

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Have to agree witj both BBallNut and Coach about the bench zonebusters. If Kelly has given them the green light when they're open, they have to take the shot. If they had hit two more threes between them (one missed by Tess and the other from Jessie shooting instead of Kasi), as Orange Maniac said, it could have given us back the momentum in the 4th quarter. After that point, we were just pressing, which ended up padding KY's lead.

About Jess: Don't like to sound harsh, especially as I think she is a really neat person who wants to contribute, but the facts suggest that she's just hit a physical wall or has really had her confidence shaken. Last night she played 9-10 minutes, and the stat sheet is totally empty save for 1 turnover. I wonder if she practices well or struggles with her shot there. too. Or if she does other things well that convinced the staff that she deserves extended minutes. I think many of us are pulling for our bench, not just because we need them but because we like them. But even the most likeable players have to produce when called upon. Jess's strength is supposed to be shooting,. She's a sophomore who got game experience last year, so tbe time is now with other shooters on the way unless she's going to be relegated to practice squad status.

Freshman Tess has more upside. She got a delayed start due to injury, but she's proved that she will take the shot. A year of learning the system and off-season work may have her looking vastly improved next yeat.
 

VolBall09

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Have to agree witj both BBallNut and Coach about the bench zonebusters. If Kelly has given them the green light when they're open, they have to take the shot. If they had hit two more threes between them (one missed by Tess and the other from Jessie shooting instead of Kasi), as Orange Maniac said, it could have given us back the momentum in the 4th quarter. After that point, we were just pressing, which ended up padding KY's lead.

About Jess: Don't like to sound harsh, especially as I think she is a really neat person who wants to contribute, but the facts suggest that she's just hit a physical wall or has really had her confidence shaken. Last night she played 9-10 minutes, and the stat sheet is totally empty save for 1 turnover. I wonder if she practices well or struggles with her shot there. too. Or if she does other things well that convinced the staff that she deserves extended minutes. I think many of us are pulling for our bench, not just because we need them but because we like them. But even the most likeable players have to produce when called upon. Jess's strength is supposed to be shooting,. She's a sophomore who got game experience last year, so tbe time is now with other shooters on the way unless she's going to be relegated to practice squad status.

Freshman Tess has more upside. She got a delayed start due to injury, but she's proved that she will take the shot. A year of learning the system and off-season work may have her looking vastly improved next yeat.
Jessie really looks like she may have been working through some sort of injury to me. She just doesn’t seem as physically confident this season. She seems very reluctant to shoot like she knows something is wrong with her body/shot.

Was really hoping we might see her play a bit more aggressive yesterday but she was timid as a mouse again. The entire team appears to need a good offseason. Still a lot of basketball to be played though.

I’m thinking Coach Harper’s practices are very physical. The team just looks a little beat up and haggard from top to bottom.

Injuries can be contagious as well and we are seeing our fair share.
 
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Bballnut1952

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Have to agree witj both BBallNut and Coach about the bench zonebusters. If Kelly has given them the green light when they're open, they have to take the shot. If they had hit two more threes between them (one missed by Tess and the other from Jessie shooting instead of Kasi), as Orange Maniac said, it could have given us back the momentum in the 4th quarter. After that point, we were just pressing, which ended up padding KY's lead.

About Jess: Don't like to sound harsh, especially as I think she is a really neat person who wants to contribute, but the facts suggest that she's just hit a physical wall or has really had her confidence shaken. Last night she played 9-10 minutes, and the stat sheet is totally empty save for 1 turnover. I wonder if she practices well or struggles with her shot there. too. Or if she does other things well that convinced the staff that she deserves extended minutes. I think many of us are pulling for our bench, not just because we need them but because we like them. But even the most likeable players have to produce when called upon. Jess's strength is supposed to be shooting,. She's a sophomore who got game experience last year, so tbe time is now with other shooters on the way unless she's going to be relegated to practice squad status.

Freshman Tess has more upside. She got a delayed start due to injury, but she's proved that she will take the shot. A year of learning the system and off-season work may have her looking vastly improved next yeat.
All good points. But to expect them to do something they haven't done all season is a little unreasonable.
 
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VA_VOLFAN

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Maybe but it seemed to be last night. Massengill is not more than solid. But she seemed in control with enough size to be able to make necessary passes. Made big shots in the second half.
Yea, i thought about it my comment wasn’t meant to be as much of a knock on massengill as it came across

i just meant as far as production they sorta cancelled each other out for the season. I think Massengill would have been huge for this team this year and with Rae her assists would have been up
 

JFP

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Could Emily Saunders please be provided with a practice assistant to chase her shots for return to her instead of her being almost timidly nice and running down shots
for other team mates. In games and in practice this assistant could provide a great service by being allowed to voice admonishment to her every time she doesn't take a
shot if there is any chance of making said shot what so ever. It should be made clear over and over the difference in a shot and a pass and the necessity for a player to
put shots up. Emily doesn't seem to realize her potential. Does she not realize there is no shame in answering the need for her to try to score? In truth it is the opposite.
 

glv98

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This was a game where our supposed gunners could have shone (Rennie 0-0,, Darby 1-2) but all they did was "NOT SHOOT!"..
The players that actually get minutes are the ones that needed to break the zone and only Burrell seemed capable of that.
Exactly! To focus on the shortcomings of Darby and Rennie in busting the zone last night is preposterous. Miss the forest for the trees much? Personally, I had my hopes pinned on Walker and Horston, possibly Salary. Of course it's arguable that's pretty dumb right now as well. Maybe bench magic is more plausible, unfortunately.

Why is Jordan playing so much with such a debilitating back injury that it affects her shot? Weren't we just harrumping the hell out of Geno for playing an injured player? I don't have back trouble but isn't rest the prescription? For the love of all things Holy, if her back is the reason she's a career mid-30s fg shooter and high-20s 3 pt shooter than get it fixed!!! Surely the vast resources of UTAD can get her better.

Let's be honest. So far, nearly halfway thru her career, back or no back, Jordan's offensive skills simply haven't translated to the D1 college game. Seems they should, seems they still could. Sure hope so.

I'm curious about her high school career. I'm sure she scored alot, but could she hit a 3 back then? Were her points mostly at the rim?
Massengill is not more than solid. But she seemed in control with enough size to be able to make necessary passes. Made big shots in the second half.
Please say this back to yourself. Solid, in control, enough size, makes necessary passes, made big shots in the second half. You pooh pooh this? Know what I'd give for this kind of PG right now?
 
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VolBall09

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All things said this wasn’t really a bad loss for us. Not fun to lose but coming off a COVID interruption and missing Rennia made that a long shot for a victory. Not to mention all our other beat up players. We already beat them in Knoxville so it’s null mostly. We simply didn’t have the offensive firepower to get it done and it was still close until they went 5-5 from 3 in the 4th quarter. Credit to them for shooting well.

That said it makes these next several games much more important. If we drop all of these games coming up that’s gonna be a massive step backward for the program. Hopefully we can pull out 2-3 wins. We’re going to need a solid game from all of our starters if we hope to win any of them.

Horston included. Have said that numerous times and have been disappointed thus far. Hoping to see her break through and have one really great game soon. Seems like she either can’t throw it in the ocean but will take good care of the ball. Or she’ll have a good scoring night but a bunch of turnovers and mental errors. For her own confidence it would be nice to see her have a complete game. YOU CAN DO IT.

Based on yesterday I do not think Marta should be playing. She clearly wants to but she was obviously not OK. She couldn’t put any weight on that foot and it cost her some buckets and rebounds. She was really a liability yesterday because she just couldn’t jump. If her foot is in that kind of shape she should probably just sit out. Would rather have her fully healthy for next season than see her further injure that foot trying to play.

Kinda sucks but with our injuries creating an extremely thin bench keeping a top 4 spot in the SEC might be tough going forward. Just the reality of the situation. Right now we are basically 6 deep as Salary has not been consistent. With Marta hurt Walker is really our only bench player who can contribute more than a couple minutes.

Big picture I really don’t think this season matters anyway. It’s been a mess across the nation. Whoever does win the title (if the tournament happens) will have an asterisk next to their name.
 

madtownvol

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Tried to read through this thread. Stopped to preserve sanity.

The LVs were playing a good KY team at home, without their best player and leader and were just off a 10 day covid-19 pause. Not exactly an ideal situation.

The LVs did play poorly except for the one stretch in the 3rd quarter. They missed more than enough FTs to have turned the game. They missed a mind boggling number of lay-ups in the first quarter when they should gone up by 8 to 10 points. They also kept KY in the game with terrible TOs.

For some mysterious reason, Suarez looked like she had not played in a game for several weeks.

Destiny looked completely lost.

Key had several opportunities to go up for a shot in the post (over a mismatched opponent) but chose to make bad passes, leading to TOs.

Neither of the Jordans were on.

KK looked rusty and it goes on.

The only player who looked solid was Rae.

What does it all mean? A very rusty LV team, missing their best player, did not play well.

Such games are the reality of playing a season during a pandemic.

The LVs will bounce back on Sunday.
 

mlindsay

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All things said this wasn’t really a bad loss for us. Not fun to lose but coming off a COVID interruption and missing Rennia made that a long shot for a victory. Not to mention all our other beat up players. We already beat them in Knoxville so it’s null mostly. We simply didn’t have the offensive firepower to get it done and it was still close until they went 5-5 from 3 in the 4th quarter. Credit to them for shooting well.

That said it makes these next several games much more important. If we drop all of these games coming up that’s gonna be a massive step backward for the program. Hopefully we can pull out 2-3 wins. We’re going to need a solid game from all of our starters if we hope to win any of them.

Horston included. Have said that numerous times and have been disappointed thus far. Hoping to see her break through and have one really great game soon. Seems like she either can’t throw it in the ocean but will take good care of the ball. Or she’ll have a good scoring night but a bunch of turnovers and mental errors. For her own confidence it would be nice to see her have a complete game. YOU CAN DO IT.

Based on yesterday I do not think Marta should be playing. She clearly wants to but she was obviously not OK. She couldn’t put any weight on that foot and it cost her some buckets and rebounds. She was really a liability yesterday because she just couldn’t jump. If her foot is in that kind of shape she should probably just sit out. Would rather have her fully healthy for next season than see her further injure that foot trying to play.

Kinda sucks but with our injuries creating an extremely thin bench keeping a top 4 spot in the SEC might be tough going forward. Just the reality of the situation. Right now we are basically 6 deep as Salary has not been consistent. With Marta hurt Walker is really our only bench player who can contribute more than a couple minutes.

Big picture I really don’t think this season matters anyway. It’s been a mess across the nation. Whoever does win the title (if the tournament happens) will have an asterisk next to their name.
I hear you but I wouldn't mind being the team with the asterisk! I hope some how we can weather the storms that come our way and go on a run. It wont be easy but in a year like this, we have to pieces to do so.
 

VolBall09

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I hear you but I wouldn't mind being the team with the asterisk! I hope some how we can weather the storms that come our way and go on a run. It wont be easy but in a year like this, we have to pieces to do so.
I totally agree. Even if we win it all I wouldn’t count this the same as our other championships though. Especially if they have a reduced number of teams in the tournament. Part of what makes the NCAA tournament fun and challenging is the large field and having to travel and play all those teams. A lot different in a bubble situation only playing 2-3 games compared to 5-6.
 

glv98

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All things said this wasn’t really a bad loss for us. Not fun to lose but coming off a COVID interruption and missing Rennia made that a long shot for a victory. Not to mention all our other beat up players. We already beat them in Knoxville so it’s null mostly. We simply didn’t have the offensive firepower to get it done and it was still close until they went 5-5 from 3 in the 4th quarter. Credit to them for shooting well.

That said it makes these next several games much more important. If we drop all of these games coming up that’s gonna be a massive step backward for the program. Hopefully we can pull out 2-3 wins. We’re going to need a solid game from all of our starters if we hope to win any of them.

Horston included. Have said that numerous times and have been disappointed thus far. Hoping to see her break through and have one really great game soon. Seems like she either can’t throw it in the ocean but will take good care of the ball. Or she’ll have a good scoring night but a bunch of turnovers and mental errors. For her own confidence it would be nice to see her have a complete game. YOU CAN DO IT.

Based on yesterday I do not think Marta should be playing. She clearly wants to but she was obviously not OK. She couldn’t put any weight on that foot and it cost her some buckets and rebounds. She was really a liability yesterday because she just couldn’t jump. If her foot is in that kind of shape she should probably just sit out. Would rather have her fully healthy for next season than see her further injure that foot trying to play.

Kinda sucks but with our injuries creating an extremely thin bench keeping a top 4 spot in the SEC might be tough going forward. Just the reality of the situation. Right now we are basically 6 deep as Salary has not been consistent. With Marta hurt Walker is really our only bench player who can contribute more than a couple minutes.

Big picture I really don’t think this season matters anyway. It’s been a mess across the nation. Whoever does win the title (if the tournament happens) will have an asterisk next to their name.
I totally agree. Even if we win it all I wouldn’t count this the same as our other championships though. Especially if they have a reduced number of teams in the tournament. Part of what makes the NCAA tournament fun and challenging is the large field and having to travel and play all those teams. A lot different in a bubble situation only playing 2-3 games compared to 5-6.
Great posts, agree completely. Last night was a weird game with cascading bad circumstances that made it too high a hill to climb. We're getting better, but still way too fragile a team to withstand losing so many key pieces at once.

Fortunately, this team has not been defined by its last game so far. Also, the fact they got coached up, made adjustments and regained focus coming out at halftime and were able to get back in the game was encouraging and refreshing.

I agree this season is kind of a mulligan. Weird sh*t keeps happening. But you're a better person that me. If the LVs win the championship, I will most definitely count it the same as our others. If any other team wins the championship, I won't count it the same as any others ever in history.
 

madtownvol

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All good points. But to expect them to do something they haven't done all season is a little unreasonable.
I thought it was telling that one a few occasions. Saunders had position in the post and was calling for the ball or Rennie was wide open on the three point line and was calling for the ball and no one would pass to them.

Could have just been a missed look or it might signal a lack of trust.
 

glv98

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The only player who looked solid was Rae.
Except for the 4 t.o.s, a quarter of our total. Don't get me wrong, if not for the amazing transformation of Rae Burrell this season we'd be having way less fun. But shes always been a volume turnover player. Funny how consistent scoring forgives your miscues in the mind of fans. Jordan Horston should take note.

Hopefully cutting down the t.o.s and taming the last of the bull in the china shop instincts will be the final parts of Rae's evolution to greatness. Then she'll be dang near perfect I reckon.
 

papatomany

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...

Why is Jordan playing so much with such a debilitating back injury that it affects her shot? Weren't we just harrumping the hell out of Geno for playing an injured player? I don't have back trouble but isn't rest the prescription? For the love of all things Holy, if her back is the reason she's a career mid-30s fg shooter and high-20s 3 pt shooter than get it fixed!!! Surely the vast resources of UTAD can get her better.

...
I don't disagree with your assessment, but she's playing because she's integral to the defense. She defends very well, is our very best off-ball defender, deflecting passes and getting a hand in on drivers, and she block shots out of the blue. Her offense does in fact stink right now, but she also handled the ball better last night than either Walker or Salary.
 

Bballnut1952

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I don't disagree with your assessment, but she's playing because she's integral to the defense. She defends very well, is our very best off-ball defender, deflecting passes and getting a hand in on drivers, and she block shots out of the blue. Her offense does in fact stink right now, but she also handled the ball better last night than either Walker or Salary.
So, her back doesn't bother her on defense but does on offense? I heard it's because she can't lift her arms. Some coach told me that.
 

madtownvol

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Except for the 4 t.o.s, a quarter of our total. Don't get me wrong, if not for the amazing transformation of Rae Burrell this season we'd be having way less fun. But shes always been a volume turnover player. Funny how consistent scoring forgives your miscues in the mind of fans. Jordan Horston should take note.

Hopefully cutting down the t.o.s and taming the last of the bull in the china shop instincts will be the final parts of Rae's evolution to greatness. Then she'll be dang near perfect I reckon.

Well, 4 TOs over 39 minutes does not seem that excessive in comparison to, for example, Destiny who had 4 TOs in 7 minutes.

But it was not a great statistical game for Rae who shot 9 of 23. She obviously had some rust as well and was probably forcing things more in hopes of picking up the slack for Rennia. She defended Howard well again. You expect the LVs to win a game where Howard is held to 8 points.

I may be wrong but I think Rae's TO's generally happened when she was driving to the basket (and perhaps not a getting a call) so I think we can live with those kind of TOs. It would have helped the team if one or two other players had come out, with an attack mindset as well.
 

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