Game Thread: (11) Lady Vols 67 - (12) Indiana 79

Amb3096

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
10,053
Likes
17,638
If you can't outrebound UMass without Horston, that's a significant problem...
That's true. I didn't watch the game, but it did appear that a lot of the rebounds were long ones that had to be chased down. The inside players cleaned up under the paint, but the guards were getting beaten to the 50-50 balls. Which shouldn't be surprising because they aren't exactly the speediest bunch. I don't disagree however that they should have been able to dominate UMass. Eventually, you would think that they would have adjusted their approach to rebounding off the perimeter misses, but we all know that the team is having problems right now...
 

Volfaninfl2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Messages
3,782
Likes
8,704
Our 5 best players are easily Powell, Rickea, Horston, Franklin, and Key. Since Franklin backs up Key, that leaves one spot for another starter. When Horston played, Kellie made Walker the other starter. When Horston was out, Walker and Tess started.

So who should be the 5th starter? To me, it has to be Tess or Sara, we need 3 point shooting.

About Hollingshead: In the Indiana game, in 8:05 minutes, Jillian was called for 3 fouls. In that time, she scored 2 points, had 1 assist, and 2 turnovers. In the Ohio State game, in 14:22 minutes, she had 2 points, 1 steal, 1 block, 4 fouls, and 2 turnovers.

Going by this, not only are there turnovers and hardly any scoring, but it is likely that Jillian will foul out in a short time. You would think that Franklin gets the majority of minutes when Key needs a break or is in foul trouble, and Jillian gets some minutes when Key and Franklin need a break. If you look at the minutes, you see that is exactly what Kellie is doing. I believe Hollingshead will keep improving.

About Tamari: Watching the Indiana game, there were times when I thought to myself, what is she doing out there? (Meaning so far away from the basket). I suppose it’s possible it was a tactic to help keep Tamari out of foul trouble. If so, it worked, because Tamari only had 2 fouls in the game. She scored 14 points, had 1 assist, 1 steal, and 0 turnovers, but only had 3 rebounds, and No blocks. It looks like we may have sacrificed some defense, to keep her in the game and available for the fourth quarter.

About Powell: Congrats to Powell for a double double! She scored 16 points, with 10 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, and 1 turnover.

About Walker: Walker played 27:57 minutes, and had 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, scored 1 point, and had 2 turnovers. She scored only 1 of 6 free throws when we really needed the points. Walker has played hard all her career and sometimes has made big shots in big games, but I think she and Miles should come in off the bench for added grit and energy.

About Sara: Sara played 4:55 minutes, missed 2 shots, had 2 rebounds, and 2 fouls. Would like to see Sara in a much bigger role, because saw what she could do last year, and she is very versatile, and fearless in the clutch.

About Rickea: Rickea was our high scorer with 17 points. She had 6 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 4 fouls, and 6 turnovers. For all the times I’ve seen our short players drive to the basket and get stuffed, Rickea is one with enough size to finish the shot or at least draw the foul, and she can shoot free throws. So, much as I like that she shares the ball, there were a couple of times near the end of the game, and we really needed the points, that she
kicked the ball out. Guess I’m being picky, but I was hoping she’d take the shot.

About Justine: Justine was given some time in the games before the protocol stuff took her out for awhile. I watched all the minutes she played in the games this summer, and I noticed not just her scoring ability, but her sharp passing. She will get playing time, maybe in our next game against Rutgers. After the Bahamas tournament, we play Colorado, Eastern Kentucky, Virginia Tech, Chattanooga, Wright State, UCF, Stanford, and Wofford. I’m sure she will get a lot of playing time during those games, which may earn her more playing time in the tougher matchups later. Yes, she’s going to be fun to watch.

Guess I’ll stop here. Our expectations were maybe a bit unreasonable, which led to our bigger disappointment. I know one thing though, Kellie is one of the most competitive people I’ve ever seen. She’s driven, and she’s smart. We will get better.
 
Last edited:

lvocd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
5,124
Likes
16,135
Your well-thought-out analyses are always appreciated, Volfaninfl2! 🧡

If I were the head coach I'd bring Key off the bench about mid-way through the first quarter and then ... just ... leave her there. No matter what happens, unless she gets injured.

If she gets two quick fouls? Leave her in. And if she fouls out by halftime? So be it.

Thing is, in those games Key has gotten called for a foul in the first minute or two and then another one shortly after, that second foul has often been -- to my eye, anyway -- a silly foul due to lack of focus. I aways think, "looks like Tamari is on the self-fulfilling prophecy foul plan today!" when that happens.

So she immediately goes to the bench to be preserved for later. Or to watch how the refs are calling the game, or ... whatever. Maybe she's frustrated by the refs. Or maybe she simply does not feel like playing.

Either way, in my opinion, Tamari needs to take on a MUCH larger role for this team, and quickly. A senior-sized role, if you will. She has been through the leadership program, and she has been a Lady Vol as long as Jordan has. Key is the tallest player, with the widest wingspan, in Tennessee Lady Vol history, so its time for her to make up her mind to be a consistent scoring and rebounding presence on the court.

Again, Kellie needs to leave Key on the floor, EVERY game, and either she figures out how to stay on the floor or she fouls out. Franklin and Hollingshead and Striplin can handle the job if she fouls out. I almost feel like she's being enabled to lose focus by pulling her out of the game instead of forcing her to become aggressively FOCUSED on the game and DEMANDING of her teammates to get her the ball.

Tamari could be a great one, and she HAS shown moments of greatness. I'd just like to see her INSIST on being as great as she could be. I'm confident she can do it! 🧡🏀‼️
 
Last edited:

Volfan2012

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
25,670
Likes
36,420
Like a lot of you I am extremely surprised to see Key guarding out at the top of the free throw line it just doesn't make sense to me. What does seem logical to me is plant her at the front of the semi-circle and and have her move left or right depending on which way the driving player is coming. She doesn't even have to raise her hands just keep her body in front would be enough defense to prevent a lot of the layups that we've been giving up. I remember last season that is exactly what she was doing early and through the middle of the season and she was making a huge difference in our ability to defend teams.
 

Amb3096

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
10,053
Likes
17,638
That's a factor, no doubt. But what does it say about our bigs that one of our wings is our leading rebounder?
I don't think it says anything damning at all. Not the first time that's been the case for Tennessee, either. Rennia Davis was the leading rebounder for Tennessee for 3 of her 4 seasons with Tennessee.
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
11,341
Likes
16,764
That's a factor, no doubt. But what does it say about our bigs that one of our wings is our leading rebounder?
shorter guards HAVE to rely on timing and pre-placement. Thye have to judge the shot and be at the right angle or place at the perfect moment. They rebound by trajectory and arc. Dennis Rodman used this technique and also threw in a focus on each shooter he faced and their tendencies (wideleft/right...lcng...short) and used this info to predict the shots. last year Jordan Walker was a good # rebounder and she played some primary Point.

Thats why they say rebounding is about effort,,,not just physical, but mental as well

shooters see the shot and rebounders see the flight
 

37620VOL

Barely-Known Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
5,501
Likes
9,046
Peak Rodman is actually a great comparison to Horston's game. I've never made that connection before but it is uncanny. In my observations, Horston's game has always been a mess (but a productive mess). Much like Rodman, she has always had a nose for the ball, made gritty plays, 10 out of 10 defender, 10 out of 10 rebounder, flawed offensive game, but still a serious offensive threat.
 

djtee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
4,266
Likes
3,685
That's true. I didn't watch the game, but it did appear that a lot of the rebounds were long ones that had to be chased down. The inside players cleaned up under the paint, but the guards were getting beaten to the 50-50 balls. Which shouldn't be surprising because they aren't exactly the speediest bunch. I don't disagree however that they should have been able to dominate UMass. Eventually, you would think that they would have adjusted their approach to rebounding off the perimeter misses, but we all know that the team is having problems right now...

Here is a surprise to me thru 3 games TN 34 offensive rebounds there opponents 39
 

Amb3096

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
10,053
Likes
17,638
Here is a surprise to me thru 3 games TN 34 offensive rebounds there opponents 39
That number is heavily skewed by the UMass game where they got something like 10-12 more offensive boards. Tennessee had more than OSU and Indiana.

The number that is more concerning to me is blocks per game: Tenn 2.3 and Opp 3.3. And they haven't even played a team with superior size yet. Tamari is lagging way behind here compared to last year.
 

lvocd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
5,124
Likes
16,135
shooters see the shot and rebounders see the flight
Yes. And only the shooters see the complete picture all at once since they are the only ones with a full, direct view from themselves to the basket to know which side of the goal the shot is most likely to bounce off of. That's why it is imperative that shooters follow their shots. They know best where it's likely to bounce, the soonest.
 
Likes: chuckiepoo

djtee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
4,266
Likes
3,685
That number is heavily skewed by the UMass game where they got something like 10-12 more offensive boards. Tennessee had more than OSU and Indiana.

The number that is more concerning to me is blocks per game: Tenn 2.3 and Opp 3.3. And they haven't even played a team with superior size yet. Tamari is lagging way behind here compared to last year.
I`m not sure what is going on with Tamari? But what ever it is KJh needs to get it corrected and fast. I also see there is some talk about play Striplin ?. if you ask me i agree KJH should play her because she will need her in SEC play. Like Maryland Brenda Frese said SC have 7 good post / wing players. I know Striplin looks good in practice so now is the time to see how she looks in a game.
 

Amb3096

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
10,053
Likes
17,638
I`m not sure what is going on with Tamari? But what ever it is KJh needs to get it corrected and fast. I also see there is some talk about play Striplin ?. if you ask me i agree KJH should play her because she will need her in SEC play. Like Maryland Brenda Frese said SC have 7 good post / wing players. I know Striplin looks good in practice so now is the time to see how she looks in a game.
I don't know what to make of Striplin. She's basically behind Key, Hollinshead and Franklin at the center position, and behind Jackson, Puckett and Suarez at PF. I don't know who she takes minutes from if the objective is to have your best players on the court.
 

djtee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
4,266
Likes
3,685
I don't know what to make of Striplin. She's basically behind Key, Hollinshead and Franklin at the center position, and behind Jackson, Puckett and Suarez at PF. I don't know who she takes minutes from if the objective is to have your best players on the court.
If she don`t play or get good minutes do you think she becomes another Emily ?
 

Amb3096

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
10,053
Likes
17,638
If she don`t play or get good minutes do you think she becomes another Emily ?
I don't see her playing this season in close games, no. Not before Franklin, Hollingshead and Puckett are brought in first. And in those tight games, I fully expect the starters to be counted on the most. In the cupcake portion of the schedule, she should see ample playing time. Next season, the door's wide open. It will just be Hollingshead and her as options at center. Unless she gets recruited over again through the portal, she'll play a lot. If Kellie brings in an experienced post player that's better than her, I can see her moving on.
 
Likes: chuckiepoo

djtee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
4,266
Likes
3,685
I don't see her playing this season in close games, no. Not before Franklin, Hollingshead and Puckett are brought in first. And in those tight games, I fully expect the starters to be counted on the most. In the cupcake portion of the schedule, she should see ample playing time. Next season, the door's wide open. It will just be Hollingshead and her as options at center. Unless she gets recruited over again through the portal, she'll play a lot. If Kellie brings in an experienced post player that's better than her, I can see her moving on.
As for next season KJH has no choice other then hit the portal, And if this team wants to be competitive in the SEC they will need to bring in an experienced post player i think.
 

Volfan2012

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
25,670
Likes
36,420
Still in the negative shot attempts again this season 176 shot attempts to our opponents 202. It is turnovers as we have a small rebounding edge in two of the games and only a negative two in the other game. This has been the most concerning thing about Kellie's team almost every game opponents always get more shots at the basket than we do . If we don't make it up at the free throw line which we aren't doing then we have to shoot a higher percentage to win the game. Were shooting .432 to .411 for opponents but they are winning with all their extra shot attempts. I wonder what it is going to take for us to force more turnovers if we can't cut down on our own. When you give an opponent an extra 9 shots per game your talking about the opportunity for them to score at the minimum 18 and maximum 27 more points if both teams shoot the same percentage for the game. Looking at the Ohio State game they got an amazing 31 free throw attempts and the turnover deficit was plus 14 for them 29 forced while they committed 15. You would think with them getting 31 free throw attempts plus seven for them we would get the most shot attempts at the basket but they won that also. You look at these things and you see exactly why were losing these games. Our mental talent is way below our physical talent just not playing very smart this season. I hope the coaches can find the answer going forward just not winning basketball when your giving up so many more scoring attempts each and every game.
 

OrangeBeachVol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
1,909
Likes
4,017
After watching some of it again, I think if they had Horston it could have been different. Every team needs that player that when the shooters are off and the rest of the team is standing around like deer in the headlights, they can just make something happen on their own and keep the game close. Men's team had Chandler last season that could do that. He could just drive the paint and make a shot or get fouled. Horston is that player for LV's. Was hoping Powell could be to but does not look like it so far. Of course TO's will always keep them on the negative side to overcome.
 

Volfaninfl2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Messages
3,782
Likes
8,704
Your well-thought-out analyses are always appreciated, Volfaninfl2! 🧡

If I were the head coach I'd bring Key off the bench about mid-way through the first quarter and then ... just ... leave her there. No matter what happens, unless she gets injured.

If she gets two quick fouls? Leave her in. And if she fouls out by halftime? So be it.

Thing is, in those games Key has gotten called for a foul in the first minute or two and then another one shortly after, that second foul has often been -- to my eye, anyway -- a silly foul due to lack of focus. I aways think, "looks like Tamari is on the self-fulfilling prophecy foul plan today!" when that happens.

So she immediately goes to the bench to be preserved for later. Or to watch how the refs are calling the game, or ... whatever. Maybe she's frustrated by the refs. Or maybe she simply does not feel like playing.

Either way, in my opinion, Tamari needs to take on a MUCH larger role for this team, and quickly. A senior-sized role, if you will. She has been through the leadership program, and she has been a Lady Vol as long as Jordan has. Key is the tallest player, with the widest wingspan, in Tennessee Lady Vol history, so its time for her to make up her mind to be a consistent scoring and rebounding presence on the court.

Again, Kellie needs to leave Key on the floor, EVERY game, and either she figures out how to stay on the floor or she fouls out. Franklin and Hollingshead and Striplin can handle the job if she fouls out. I almost feel like she's being enabled to lose focus by pulling her out of the game instead of forcing her to become aggressively FOCUSED on the game and DEMANDING of her teammates to get her the ball.

Tamari could be a great one, and she HAS shown moments of greatness. I'd just like to see her INSIST on being as great as she could be. I'm confident she can do it! 🧡🏀‼️
If it were at the beginning of Tamari’s college career, or if it were in games that were not close, or against teams who didn’t have a dominating post, I could understand using the ‘sink or swim’ approach concerning Tamari and early fouls, some of which are not her fault, but we’re way past that.

It’s not just about Tamari. It’s about the energy and confidence of both teams on the court. It’s good to see Tamari take that first tipoff. When Tamari does something well, everyone sees, and feels, it. When Tamari blocked the shot, caught it, and then got it to Powell to initiate a fast break, it was fantastic, and everyone knew it. When Tamari scores or gets a block, it energizes our team, and helps demoralize/defeat our opponent.

Tamari is special in every way. She has a presence that cannot be duplicated. When she has to sit on the bench because of foul trouble, or worse, fouls out, it is a huge win and confidence builder for the other team. Many teams will not have an answer for Tamari, but some will have their own impressive post player. Tamari must be available to play in the fourth quarter, whatever that takes.

I agree that Tamari can be truly great. Her aggressiveness and control depend on her. Someone said they thought Tamari might be the difference in how far we go in the tournaments, I agree. This is why she came here. This is her Senior season. I believe Tamari will live up to the billing, and this will be her best season so far.
 
Last edited:

Volfan2012

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
25,670
Likes
36,420
Watched some play of Rickea at Mississippi State and see that they were always getting her the ball in the paint. She was doing a lot of posting up and receiving the pass. Here at Tennessee that is not happening for her or Jordan Horston they are both trying to create off the dribble from or beyond the free throw line. They have 23 turnovers between the two of them. Coach Harper needs to work some plays for these two closer to the basket both are much better players when they get it in the paint and not needing to create off the dribble from long distance.
 

lvocd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
5,124
Likes
16,135
If it were at the beginning of Tamari’s college career, or if it were in games that were not close, or against teams who didn’t have a dominating post, I could understand using the ‘sink or swim’ approach concerning Tamari and early fouls, some of which are not her fault, but we’re way past that.

It’s not just about Tamari. It’s about the energy and confidence of both teams on the court. It’s good to see Tamari take that first tipoff. When Tamari does something well, everyone sees, and feels, it. When Tamari blocked the shot, caught it, and then got it to Powell to initiate a fast break, it was fantastic, and everyone knew it. When Tamari scores or gets a block, it energizes our team, and helps demoralize/defeat our opponent.

Tamari is special in every way. She has a presence that cannot be duplicated. When she has to sit on the bench because of foul trouble, or worse, fouls out, it is a huge win and confidence builder for the other team. Many teams will not have an answer for Tamari, but some will have their own impressive post player. Tamari must be available to play in the fourth quarter, whatever that takes.

I agree that Tamari can be truly great. Her aggressiveness and control depend on her. Someone said they thought Tamari might be the difference in how far we go in the tournaments, I agree. This is why she came here. This is her Senior season. I believe Tamari will live up to the billing, and this will be her best season so far.
My thought is that IF she is planning on making basketball her career after leaving college, then she needs to learn to focus in order to avoid picking up two silly fouls in the first three minutes. My theory is that if she were to be forced into the realization that pro scouts aren't going to be impressed by a player who doesn't know how to stay on the floor, and that she needs to be getting more than 3 rebounds against a short team, then she could finally have her light bulb moment. So far I don't think it has hit her that This. Is. It. I don't see the focus, and I feel like it would be worth a shot to see if sitting on the bench for most of the games in her "prove-myself-worthy-of-a-high-draft-selection-season," then maybe she could gain that focus and start dominating in the way that she really should be dominating.

I love Tamari, believe me. But it is because I have seen her be truly dominating a few times that I am desperate for her to be dominating the majority of the time and not just a few times. IMO she should should never have a game where she doesn't grab at least 10 rebounds and score 14 points. Never. She has the ability.
 

VN Store




Top