'22 GA OT Maurice Clipper Jr (Tennessee signee)

[ConwayFitty]

Recent 2/3* guys that made it into the NFL and are doing well:

Emmanuel Moseley - 2* - Still in NFL
Cam Sutton - 3* - Still in NFL
Zach Fulton - 3* - Still in NFL
Justin Coleman - 3* - Still in NFL

Current players that are contributing:
Jeremy Banks - 3*
Cedric Tillman - 2/3*
Theo Jackson - 3*
Trevon Flowers - 3*
Aaron Beasley - 3*
Byron Young - 3*
Velus Jones - 3*
Javonta Payton - 3*
Jabari Small - 3*

3* guys are at the top for sacks (#1,2,3,5), Tackles (#1,2,4,5), Rec Yards (#1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

So while there are 10 3* guys that wash out for every 1 that doesn't... that isn't to say you can't glean an idea on how well scouted by actual pros (not just a scouting service) by who offered him. OL and DBs are especially hard to scout given a lot of times grades are given based on production and you won't really see much production from OL or good DBs.

Matthew Butler may be one of the best 3-star stories lately and will probably get drafted late rounds

 

[agent|orange]

It’s also notable that we were a 7-5 team due to a lack of talent and meaningful depth. You can’t thrive on 3 stars. You have to load your roster with high quality, coveted players. You can develop some diamonds in the rough but if you try to live off diamonds, you’re going to get crap.

Yep. The best way to avoid a 5* bust is to have a team chock full of 5*s so you'll still have busts... but you'll also have legit top-flight players. It's the Bama/OSU/UGA way.

We have 3* guys that are playing well but if we're going to ascend back to the top levels of competition we can't have MOST of our stat leaders being 3* guys. That's why we get worn out in the 3rd/4th Quarter against top-flight competition.

Matthew Butler may be one of the best 3-star stories lately and will probably get drafted late rounds

This is true, good point.

 

[ConwayFitty]

Yep. The best way to avoid a 5* bust is to have a team chock full of 5*s so you'll still have busts... but you'll also have legit top-flight players. It's the Bama/OSU/UGA way.

We have 3* guys that are playing well but if we're going to ascend back to the top levels of competition we can't have MOST of our stat leaders being 3* guys. That's why we get worn out in the 3rd/4th Quarter against top-flight competition.



This is true, good point.

Well that and fact that we had 25 players transfer out and only brought in 8 replacements from the portal

 

[volbeast33]

Yep. The best way to avoid a 5* bust is to have a team chock full of 5*s so you'll still have busts... but you'll also have legit top-flight players. It's the Bama/OSU/UGA way.

We have 3* guys that are playing well but if we're going to ascend back to the top levels of competition we can't have MOST of our stat leaders being 3* guys. That's why we get worn out in the 3rd/4th Quarter against top-flight competition.



This is true, good point.

Yes you can…. We have to build and as we will build star ratings will start matching our evaluations…. Everyone wants to jump to Georgia and Bama while we need to dominate that second tier first and we will get there.

 

[Zvols]

Yep. The best way to avoid a 5* bust is to have a team chock full of 5*s so you'll still have busts... but you'll also have legit top-flight players. It's the Bama/OSU/UGA way.

We have 3* guys that are playing well but if we're going to ascend back to the top levels of competition we can't have MOST of our stat leaders being 3* guys. That's why we get worn out in the 3rd/4th Quarter against top-flight competition.



This is true, good point.

Also, higher rated players typically have an earlier breakout age and a higher ceiling. So while it’s great that Theo Jackson, Matthew Butler, and Cedric Tillman had great season, it should also be expected due to their age. Their breakout age combined with being coached by legitimate coaches provided them a great season at the opportune time.

 

[sjt18]

What Vols fans have been saying about their 3 stars for years.

And often it has been true. I would say that Vol fans have been right about underrated 3* players about as often as they've been wrong about overrated 5* players.

 

[sjt18]

Yep. The best way to avoid a 5* bust is to have a team chock full of 5*s so you'll still have busts... but you'll also have legit top-flight players. It's the Bama/OSU/UGA way.
.

You do understand how the recruiting sites make themselves look better than they are, right? They limit the number of 4 and 5* ratings they hand out. If they could actually evaluate talent accurately like some of you seem to think there would be no reason to do that. Every kid that deserved 4* would get 4*. One year you might have 20 5* players... then 50 the next. They give out few 4/5* ratings then excuse their busts because "no one is perfect"... then turn around when a 3* becomes a star and say "We didn't say they weren't a good player".

These rankings have some value. But not as much as some seem to think. And before responding with the "yeah but the last so many national champions...." honestly ask yourself the question, "Do the coaches who sign those players follow the recruiting site evaluations... or are the recruiting sites cheating by giving higher ratings to guys certain successful coaches evaluate and prioritize?"

As another test of that idea, how often has UT signed a 4* with a lukewarm offer list and had their rating equal performance? I have nothing against Rajion Neal. But was he worthy of 4*? Rivals thought so... Bama, UF, and UGA did not. None offered. You'll find that repeated numerous times over the past several years.

My point is that there are still quite a few that they overrate. But there are far more that they underrate... by design. Read their description of a 3* rating. Talk about hedging.

UT needs a coach that can evaluate talent on his own- full stop. We have had guys who chased the recruiting sites and "won" on NSD. That got us years of misery.

Whether Heupel or someone else, the guy who turns UT around will be someone who can find 3* players with 5* talent. Guys who are missed. Guys who aren't marketed well. Guys who somehow don't get noticed. Guys who take odd paths like Palmer. If you are waiting on someone who can compete with Bama and UGA for the guys that THEY HELPED MAKE 5* by recruiting them then you have a long, long wait coming. The "right guy" will get there similar to how Dabo did at Clemson. He'll sign classes averaging between 10th and 20th. He'll develop them well. He'll consistently find great QB's.

The caveat now is that a coach can also shop the portal for missing pieces. A bad recruiting class or two used to be a death sentence. Now you just have to put a product on the field that attracts guys looking for a better gig.

 

[Zvols]

You do understand how the recruiting sites make themselves look better than they are, right? They limit the number of 4 and 5* ratings they hand out. If they could actually evaluate talent accurately like some of you seem to think there would be no reason to do that. Every kid that deserved 4* would get 4*. One year you might have 20 5* players... then 50 the next. They give out few 4/5* ratings then excuse their busts because "no one is perfect"... then turn around when a 3* becomes a star and say "We didn't say they weren't a good player".

These rankings have some value. But not as much as some seem to think. And before responding with the "yeah but the last so many national champions...." honestly ask yourself the question, "Do the coaches who sign those players following the recruiting site evaluations... or are the recruiting sites cheating by giving higher ratings to guys certain successful coaches recruit?"

My point is that there are still quite a few that they overrate. But there are far more that they underrate... by design. Read their description of a 3* rating. Talk about hedging.

UT needs a coach that can evaluate talent on his own- full stop. We have had guys who chased the recruiting sites and "won" on NSD. That got us years of misery.

Whether Heupel or someone else, the guy who turns UT around will be someone who can find 3* players with 5* talent. Guys who are missed. Guys who aren't marketed well. Guys who somehow don't get noticed. Guys who take odd paths like Palmer. If you are waiting on someone who can compete with Bama and UGA for the guys that THEY HELPED MAKE 5* by recruiting them then you have a long, long wait coming. The "right guy" will get there similar to how Dabo did at Clemson. He'll sign classes averaging between 10th and 20th. He'll develop them well. He'll consistently find great QB's.

The caveat now is that a coach can also shop the portal for missing pieces. A bad recruiting class or two used to be a death sentence. Now you just have to put a product on the field that attracts guys looking for a better gig.

I think the hope has to be that Heupel identifies underrated talent that fits his scheme until he can show continued results that sway bigger fish to take notice. If you look at Kentucky, they identified guys that fit their scheme and they developed well. Once they had results and relationships with recruits, they began grabbing 1-2 highly rated players, then 3-4, and its snowballed from there.

 

[UTMVol76]

I think the hope has to be that Heupel identifies underrated talent that fits his scheme until he can show continued results that sway bigger fish to take notice. If you look at Kentucky, they identified guys that fit their scheme and they developed well. Once they had results and relationships with recruits, they began grabbing 1-2 highly rated players, then 3-4, and its snowballed from there.

This all day long. If you build it they will come. That’s how clempson built themselves up too

 

[MarcoVol]

I think the hope has to be that Heupel identifies underrated talent that fits his scheme until he can show continued results that sway bigger fish to take notice. If you look at Kentucky, they identified guys that fit their scheme and they developed well. Once they had results and relationships with recruits, they began grabbing 1-2 highly rated players, then 3-4, and its snowballed from there.

Snowballed? This is their first class ranked anywhere near this high. This year is an outlier, not a trend.

2022 - 13 currently
2021 - 34
2020- 25
2019 - 34
2018 - 37
2017 - 30
2016 - 34
2015 - 38

 

[SmokeyDaBear]

TN has way more to sell than Kentucky. We just need to win and consistently develop dudes for the league for a few years. Then we get the big recruits. They just want to win and see they have a shot to get championships and to go pro. Simple.

 

[Zvols]

Snowballed? This is their first class ranked anywhere near this high. This year is an outlier, not a trend.

2022 - 13 currently
2021 - 34
2020- 25
2019 - 34
2018 - 37
2017 - 30
2016 - 34
2015 - 38

That’s a valid point but you also have to consider the trend of OL Success -> OL Recruiting & Edge Success -> Edge Recruiting. I know the wades’ situation skews it, but in a sense the trends fit. That’s why you don’t see elite QBs signing up. And the Barion Brown situation is not apples to apples because that one sounds shady based on comments made on VQ. This is the first highly rated class Kentucky has put together but they’ve had a growing trend of adding coveted players.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

I think Clipper and Reddick are guys that would've been a 4* had they hit the camp circuit hard.

 

[UTMVol76]

I think Clipper and Reddick are guys that would've been a 4* had they hit the camp circuit hard.

Which is why there is a certain level of bull shat to rankings IMO

 

[BondJamesBond]

It’s also notable that we were a 7-5 team due to a lack of talent and meaningful depth. You can’t thrive on 3 stars. You have to load your roster with high quality, coveted players. You can develop some diamonds in the rough but if you try to live off diamonds, you’re going to get crap.

Cincinnati seems to have done okay the last couple of years. Not saying they are a model, but they rarely have a 4*, let alone 5*.

 

[sjt18]

I think the hope has to be that Heupel identifies underrated talent that fits his scheme until he can show continued results that sway bigger fish to take notice. If you look at Kentucky, they identified guys that fit their scheme and they developed well. Once they had results and relationships with recruits, they began grabbing 1-2 highly rated players, then 3-4, and its snowballed from there.

It is more than that. UK is UK because they get 2nd tier players. I'm honestly not sure why Stoops didn't take his shot at OU but if the Vols and UF get their stuff sorted out... he's never playing for anything better than 4th in the East.

All I'm saying is that the UK model isn't the one that leads to anything but... 2nd tier.

Heupel needs to find guys that are more than just "system" fits. For years the recruiting sites just didn't seem to believe in Dabo. Eventually they started taking it more serious when he went hard after a "3*" that they hadn't noticed.

The right coach to turn UT around will be a guy who finds the guys that the recruiting sites and by extension some of the most successful programs miss. That's not just unique to UT. That's for any program East of the Rockies that wants to compete with UGA, Bama, and tOSU.

 

[sjt18]

Cincinnati seems to have done okay the last couple of years. Not saying they are a model, but they rarely have a 4*, let alone 5*.

I can't use them in these arguments. I'm not a believer based on one "good" win against ND. ND doesn't have a win against a single ranked team.

 

[volbeast33]

It is more than that. UK is UK because they get 2nd tier players. I'm honestly not sure why Stoops didn't take his shot at OU but if the Vols and UF get their stuff sorted out... he's never playing for anything better than 4th in the East.

All I'm saying is that the UK model isn't the one that leads to anything but... 2nd tier.

Heupel needs to find guys that are more than just "system" fits. For years the recruiting sites just didn't seem to believe in Dabo. Eventually they started taking it more serious when he went hard after a "3*" that they hadn't noticed.

The right coach to turn UT around will be a guy who finds the guys that the recruiting sites and by extension some of the most successful programs miss. That's not just unique to UT. That's for any program East of the Rockies that wants to compete with UGA, Bama, and tOSU.

Someone posted that stoops had some kind of crazy 21,000,000 buyout to leave.

 

[sjt18]

That’s a valid point but you also have to consider the trend of OL Success -> OL Recruiting & Edge Success -> Edge Recruiting. I know the wades’ situation skews it, but in a sense the trends fit. That’s why you don’t see elite QBs signing up. And the Barion Brown situation is not apples to apples because that one sounds shady based on comments made on VQ. This is the first highly rated class Kentucky has put together but they’ve had a growing trend of adding coveted players.

They've done a "better" job getting 4/5* OL's than other positions. UT has still signed more over Stoops' tenure. Give him credit primarily for finding and developing 3* OL's. Honestly there's no shame in acknowledging that. It should give us hope knowing that there are a lot of 3* guys out there that you can win with... especially OL's. The recruiting sites do worst with OL's. Seldom do they play good enough competition to provide a good basis for evaluation.

After a handful of really elite HS OL's... the smart coaches are looking for frame, length, and feet.

 

[VAVol85]

You do understand how the recruiting sites make themselves look better than they are, right? They limit the number of 4 and 5* ratings they hand out. If they could actually evaluate talent accurately like some of you seem to think there would be no reason to do that. Every kid that deserved 4* would get 4*. One year you might have 20 5* players... then 50 the next. They give out few 4/5* ratings then excuse their busts because "no one is perfect"... then turn around when a 3* becomes a star and say "We didn't say they weren't a good player".

These rankings have some value. But not as much as some seem to think. And before responding with the "yeah but the last so many national champions...." honestly ask yourself the question, "Do the coaches who sign those players follow the recruiting site evaluations... or are the recruiting sites cheating by giving higher ratings to guys certain successful coaches evaluate and prioritize?"

As another test of that idea, how often has UT signed a 4* with a lukewarm offer list and had their rating equal performance? I have nothing against Rajion Neal. But was he worthy of 4*? Rivals thought so... Bama, UF, and UGA did not. None offered. You'll find that repeated numerous times over the past several years.

My point is that there are still quite a few that they overrate. But there are far more that they underrate... by design. Read their description of a 3* rating. Talk about hedging.

UT needs a coach that can evaluate talent on his own- full stop. We have had guys who chased the recruiting sites and "won" on NSD. That got us years of misery.

Whether Heupel or someone else, the guy who turns UT around will be someone who can find 3* players with 5* talent. Guys who are missed. Guys who aren't marketed well. Guys who somehow don't get noticed. Guys who take odd paths like Palmer. If you are waiting on someone who can compete with Bama and UGA for the guys that THEY HELPED MAKE 5* by recruiting them then you have a long, long wait coming. The "right guy" will get there similar to how Dabo did at Clemson. He'll sign classes averaging between 10th and 20th. He'll develop them well. He'll consistently find great QB's.

The caveat now is that a coach can also shop the portal for missing pieces. A bad recruiting class or two used to be a death sentence. Now you just have to put a product on the field that attracts guys looking for a better gig.

IMO Pruitt’s struggles illustrate your point. His recruiting aces, Nieds and Felton, were salesmen not evaluators. They were focused on tryIng to attract guys that the premier teams had already identified. As such, we often missed or snagged guys that other programs were initially interested in but let slide.

I am hopeful because several of Heupel’s position coaches are very experienced at developing their positions and well suited to be good evaluators.

 

[sjt18]

I think Clipper and Reddick are guys that would've been a 4* had they hit the camp circuit hard.

Outside of a handful of HS players each year, OL's are developed more than discovered. Smart coaches look for length, frame, and feet then "build their own". I'm excited to see what some of the young guys currently on the roster look like after a year of development.

As of now, UT only replaces one OL and Mays missed significant portions of the season. There's a good chance that group has more quality depth next fall.

 

[sjt18]

IMO Pruitt’s struggles illustrate your point. His recruiting aces, Nieds and Felton, were salesmen not evaluators. They were focused on tryIng to attract guys that the premier teams had already identified. As such, we often missed or snagged guys that other programs were initially interested in but let slide.

I am hopeful because several of Heupel’s position coaches are very experienced at developing their positions and well suited to be good evaluators.

You have to factor in the money violations too. Henry T was wanted by everyone. I can't imagine a scenario where a money offer was not part of his decision to sign with UT over Bama.

I actually think Pruitt was a decent talent evaluator and added some lower ranked players with talent. Slaughter comes to mind as does Elijah Simmons, Tillman, K Harris, Spraggins....

 

[WJPRUITTE2794]

Sorry I advance for the close to signing day bump scare, but just saw this story about Mo and thought it was worth sharing. Seems like a great young man

 

[SweetasSoda]

Sorry I advance for the close to signing day bump scare, but just saw this story about Mo and thought it was worth sharing. Seems like a great young man

 

[sonofUT62]

Sorry I advance for the close to signing day bump scare, but just saw this story about Mo and thought it was worth sharing. Seems like a great young man

Its an amazing story and i was coming here to post it too. The BUMP complainers can take a hike.