Fulmer’s Legacy at Tennessee

[Volle]

So you're saying that Fulmer won a national title simply because of Majors while having a roster that didn't have one player that Majors recruited and not one game Majors coached in 6 years into Fulmer's tenure? Wow.

Fulmer was given a top-10 program and a future HC in David Cutcliff (Major's hire). Cutcliff recruited Manning and that created momentum to pull a great classes in '94/95, leading to the NC in '98. Then without Cutcliff and Gardner, recruiting declines, and Fulmer leads Tenn to two losing seasons wrapped around a couple of seasons with Cutcliff winning the SEC-E. Given what happened the last half of his career, and without Cutcliff, you can't say Fulmer was largely responsible for the NC. It was more like Fulmer was there when Tenn won it, and largely because of the program Johnny built and the staff he left. If JM had stayed until 2000 or so, we'd have been much better off as a program the next twenty years till now. Fulmer was a great Vol, average HC, and bad AD.

 

[TNnative]

Fulmer was given a top-10 program and a future HC in David Cutcliff (Major's hire). Cutcliff recruited Manning and that created momentum to pull a great classes in '94/95, leading to the NC in '98. Then without Cutcliff and Gardner, recruiting declines, and Fulmer leads Tenn to two losing seasons wrapped around a couple of seasons with Cutcliff winning the SEC-E. Given what happened the last half of his career, and without Cutcliff, you can't say Fulmer was largely responsible for the NC. It was more like Fulmer was there when Tenn won it, and largely because of the program Johnny built and the staff he left. If JM had stayed until 2000 or so, we'd have been much better off as a program the next twenty years till now. Fulmer was a great Vol, average HC, and bad AD.

You left out, "And stingy with the cream filled donuts and apple fritters."

 

[Jravol78]

Insiders will tell you Majors got himself fired

I loved Majors & hated the way things went down , that’s me @ the 1986 O&W game with him in my AVI but what you say is correct . I’m no insider and was obviously a kid when it went down but through a lifelong family friendship with the Johnson’s in Sparta I had a small window into the workings of Bill Johnson , Joe Johnson (no relation ) & Dickey. There was blame to go all around & Fulmer was angling for the job but CJM provided a text book like case of how NOT to remain an employee at your current place of business .

 

[Jravol78]

This thread is richer than 6’ up a bulls ace

 

[therealitytheory]

With Cut, CPF won 83% of his games. Without Cut, the wins dropped to 66%.

Big diff. Huge.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Fulmer was given a top-10 program and a future HC in David Cutcliff (Major's hire). Cutcliff recruited Manning and that created momentum to pull a great classes in '94/95, leading to the NC in '98. Then without Cutcliff and Gardner, recruiting declines, and Fulmer leads Tenn to two losing seasons wrapped around a couple of seasons with Cutcliff winning the SEC-E. Given what happened the last half of his career, and without Cutcliff, you can't say Fulmer was largely responsible for the NC. It was more like Fulmer was there when Tenn won it, and largely because of the program Johnny built and the staff he left. If JM had stayed until 2000 or so, we'd have been much better off as a program the next twenty years till now. Fulmer was a great Vol, average HC, and bad AD.

Well I guess his record has to go to 0-0. Can't hold him responsible for ALL the loses if you he is not responsible for ALL the wins. That should end the need for any more posts in this thread.

 

[VolInNW]

Fulmer was given a top-10 program and a future HC in David Cutcliff (Major's hire). Cutcliff recruited Manning and that created momentum to pull a great classes in '94/95, leading to the NC in '98. Then without Cutcliff and Gardner, recruiting declines, and Fulmer leads Tenn to two losing seasons wrapped around a couple of seasons with Cutcliff winning the SEC-E. Given what happened the last half of his career, and without Cutcliff, you can't say Fulmer was largely responsible for the NC. It was more like Fulmer was there when Tenn won it, and largely because of the program Johnny built and the staff he left. If JM had stayed until 2000 or so, we'd have been much better off as a program the next twenty years till now. Fulmer was a great Vol, average HC, and bad AD.

I'm no Fulmer apologist, to be sure, but even I admit that in his prime Fulmer could recruit MAGAs into the Democratic Party if you gave him an in-house visit. He was a very mediocre gameday coach, and a horrible manager of staff, but the guy could flat out recruit like none since at Tennessee. To deny that, or not give the guy a good bit of the credit for those teams is wrong.

Now....once that staff drifted away, and Fulmer was on point to keep it going, he failed spectacularly. Just couldn't get enough of 3rd and Chavis matched up with the ever-so-tricksy Randy Sanders Bubble Screen Offense!!!

 

[VolsnRavens]

'98 was fun

I’ll always be kind for ol CPF. I got to spend that NC game with my brother in a bar, just him and I. My brother was the bartender and the restaurant/ bar closed @6 that evening. So him and I stayed and drank beer and watched the game on the big screen(for 98), hootin and a hollerin all game long. Just one of those things. He moved on from bartending soon afterwards and we’ve not wind an NC since. Cherish the moment if we get that chance again. And you know, we’ve had far worse coaches than CPF. But it’s time to look forward to next year, I think we’re about to have some fun again. Go Vols!!!!

 

[Jravol78]

2004 UGA for sure

I would have to look up the line but that abysmal 2005 season Hurricane Rita delayed game @ #4 LSU on a Monday night game was about as improbable of a win that I can remember . I am assuming LSU was favored .Factor in being down 21-0 @ the half & having Rick Clausen under center makes it even more unlikely.

 

[Volle]

I'm no Fulmer apologist, to be sure, but even I admit that in his prime Fulmer could recruit MAGAs into the Democratic Party if you gave him an in-house visit. He was a very mediocre gameday coach, and a horrible manager of staff, but the guy could flat out recruit like none since at Tennessee. To deny that, or not give the guy a good bit of the credit for those teams is wrong.

Now....once that staff drifted away, and Fulmer was on point to keep it going, he failed spectacularly. Just couldn't get enough of 3rd and Chavis matched up with the ever-so-tricksy Randy Sanders Bubble Screen Offense!!!

I think it was more like Fulmer's staff were great recruiters, starting with Garner, and Cutcliff. Some of the credit goes to Fulmer, but recruiting fell dramatically on his watch, starting with the '99 class, and then losing QB recruits Simms and Leak.

 

[VolInNW]

I think it was more like Fulmer's staff were great recruiters, starting with Garner, and Cutcliff. Some of the credit goes to Fulmer, but recruiting fell dramatically on his watch, starting with the '99 class, and then losing QB recruits Simms and Leak.

Losing Simms worried me at the time, especially since Cut had just left, and as it turns out was a true canary in the coal mine moment. Manning came here because of Cut, largely. Simms was all but locked up, but once Cut departed, Ole Lyin' Mack Brown got in his ear, and the other ut ended up with him.

We still had incredible classes even into the 2000s, but so many kids 'failed to develop' (to use Paycheck Phil's line when he threw a player under the bus) that Fulmer's fate was slowly sealed. He just stayed and milked every $$$ he could until firing him was required.

 

[Jravol78]

Losing Simms worried me at the time, especially since Cut had just left, and as it turns out was a true canary in the coal mine moment. Manning came here because of Cut, largely. Simms was all but locked up, but once Cut departed, Ole Lyin' Mack Brown got in his ear, and the other ut ended up with him.

We still had incredible classes even into the 2000s, but so many kids 'failed to develop' (to use Paycheck Phil's line when he threw a player under the bus) that Fulmer's fate was slowly sealed. He just stayed and milked every $$$ he could until firing him was required.

Simms on record saying Cut leaving was why he signed with Ulittletee. Mack Brown obviously used it to his advantage & seem to remember Simms throwing out some bs about team racial division at UT but that was a long time ago . He said calling Fulmer was the toughest thing that he has ever had to do And that wondering if he had the benefit of being coached up by Cut how things might have turned out differently is one of his great life’s what if‘s.

 

[MAD]

Simms on record saying Cut leaving was why he signed with Ulittletee. Mack Brown obviously used it to his advantage & seem to remember Simms throwing out some bs about team racial division at UT but that was a long time ago . He said calling Fulmer was the toughest thing that he has ever had to do And that wondering if he had the benefit of being coached up by Cut how things might have turned out differently is one of his great life’s what if‘s.

Losing Simms was a bad loss imo and sent a bad message to other recruits looking at Tennessee at the time.

 

[agent|orange]

With Cut, CPF won 83% of his games. Without Cut, the wins dropped to 66%.

Big diff. Huge.

Took people a long time to handle this information.

Seasons with Cut: 9
10-win seasons with Cut: 6
Division Titles with Cut: 3
SEC Titles with Cut: 2

Seasons without Cut: 8
10-win seasons without Cut: 3
Divison Titles without Cut: 3
SEC Titles without Cut: 0

 

[Jravol78]

Losing Simms was a bad loss imo and sent a bad message to other recruits looking at Tennessee at the time.

It was but do you remember the musical chairs of him & Applewhite Mack had to play ? I’d say we got the better end of the deal with #7 !

edit- stats included and as I researched I didn’t know the outcome so this could be interesting …..

Clausen: started 44 of 47 games at the quarterback position in his career and had a 14–1 record on the road with a 34–10 record overall.

61% CP. 9707 YDS. 75TD -vs 31 INT . Rate = 139.8


Simms:


he played in 43 games and started 32 during his career
(58.7%) 7,097 yards, 58 touchdowns vs 31 interceptions. pass efficiency rating (138.36).

 

[VolInNW]

Simms on record saying Cut leaving was why he signed with Ulittletee. Mack Brown obviously used it to his advantage & seem to remember Simms throwing out some bs about team racial division at UT but that was a long time ago . He said calling Fulmer was the toughest thing that he has ever had to do And that wondering if he had the benefit of being coached up by Cut how things might have turned out differently is one of his great life’s what if‘s.

Yiup. That's why I call Brown 'Lyin' Mack Brown'. I recall hearing that he used that annoying, just got kicked in the jewels voice of his to imply that UT had racial divisions on its team. None existed.

 

[Jravol78]

Yiup. That's why I call Brown 'Lyin' Mack Brown'. I recall hearing that he used that annoying, just got kicked in the jewels voice of his to imply that UT had racial divisions on its team. None existed.

Lol…. I did enjoy listening to /watching Watson in the mid to late 80’s though with the Cookeville twang ,which you know drove the commode blue bloods nuts , yanking on his ear and saying something like “dadburnit me and these boys just gotta do better cuz we ain’t scoring enough points to win the dadgum game …..dagnabbit “[/QUOTE]

 

[MAD]

How does this Tennessee news affect Phil Fulmer’s legacy?

 

[N.ohio vol]

How does this Tennessee news affect Phil Fulmer’s legacy?

View attachment 474743

I guess we'll see.. if Pruitt comes out and says Phillip knew what I was doing he okd it. That might change my mind a little. Lol

 

[PEPPERJAX]

How will Phillip Fulmer and his lasting legacy to the University of Tennessee be remembered?

The legacy keeps taking hits.

 

[orangebloodgmc]

I guess we'll see.. if Pruitt comes out and says Phillip knew what I was doing he okd it. That might change my mind a little. Lol

What??? IF such a thing would be uttered ... it would coming from Pruit. Enough said.

 

[LWSVOL]

Fulmer was given a top-10 program and a future HC in David Cutcliff (Major's hire). Cutcliff recruited Manning and that created momentum to pull a great classes in '94/95, leading to the NC in '98. Then without Cutcliff and Gardner, recruiting declines, and Fulmer leads Tenn to two losing seasons wrapped around a couple of seasons with Cutcliff winning the SEC-E. Given what happened the last half of his career, and without Cutcliff, you can't say Fulmer was largely responsible for the NC. It was more like Fulmer was there when Tenn won it, and largely because of the program Johnny built and the staff he left. If JM had stayed until 2000 or so, we'd have been much better off as a program the next twenty years till now. Fulmer was a great Vol, average HC, and bad AD.

Why didn't Majors name Cutcliffe OC instead of Fulmer?

Why did Majors make Fulmer the recruiting coordinator?

How did UT make SECCG without Cut in 2001 and 2004?

If Fulmer was so bad, doesn't that call into question Majors decisions regarding him?

 

[LWSVOL]

I guess we'll see.. if Pruitt comes out and says Phillip knew what I was doing he okd it. That might change my mind a little. Lol

If that were true, Pruitt would have already stated that. He did hours of interviews with UT and NCAA investigators. Why would he have not already said it?

 

[N.ohio vol]

If that were true, Pruitt would have already stated that. He did hours of interviews with UT and NCAA investigators. Why would he have not already said it?

I'm just hoping it never comes to that. I'd like to believe it won't. The quicker we get over this bump in the road the better. The point I was trying to make is my opinion of Fulmer won't change unless something comes out saying he did know..

 

[LWSVOL]

I'm just hoping it never comes to that. I'd like to believe it won't. As far as why hasn't he already come out with that who knows. The quicker we get over this bump in the road the better.

it would make sense, to me anyway, that if Fulmer knew about it Pruitt would have used that information to try and get his buyout if not save his job. To say it now just doesn't make sense and gets him nothing. IMO