Fulmer’s Legacy at Tennessee

#176
#176
In 1992 (first year of split divisions ) Majors went 5-3 and Phil was 4-0. Phil beat Cincinnati, Georgia, Florida, and Louisiana (Arjun Cajuns). Majors beat LSU, KY, MEMPHIS, VANDY, Boston College. He lost to Arkansas, Bama, S.C. In a row. That cost them The East Championship and another shot at Bama. in the championship game. If they upset Bama, they then would played #1 Miami. I love both coaches and you and I disagree on Fulmers legacy but either winning a Natty in 1992 was almost impossible. We can pick specifics about both coaches that cost us games (I.e., pooch kicks). Ultimately we both are on the same side. Good debat, enjoyed it.
 
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#177
#177
Birdie said:
Johnny lost to bad Arkansas and scar team. Phil had already beaten top 15 Georgia and no.4 Florida. All we had to do was beat Bama and the NC was ours. I like both coaches. I'm not on one side of this. I don't know ever detail but Johnny brought it on himself.

Johnny cost TN a couple Natty's himself. He was pooch kicking with HEATH SHULER.. his time had come. Dickey was not the type of guy you can manipulate and he kept boosters in line from all accounts. I trust that in the end Dickey made the best decision for the program and history has proven it was the correct call. If Phil made it clear he wanted it... well, I don't blame him. He had options too.
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In 1992 (first year of split divisions ) Majors went 5-3 and Phil was 4-0. Phil beat Cincinnati, Georgia, Florida, and Louisiana (Rajun Cajuns). Majors beat LSU, KY, MEMPHIS, VANDY, Boston College. He lost to Arkansas, Bama, S.C. In a row. That cost them The East Championship (the first one) and another shot at Bama. in the championship game. If they upset Bama, they then would played #1 Miami. I love both coaches and you and I disagree on Fulmers legacy but either winning a Natty in 1992 was almost impossible. We can pick specifics about both coaches that cost us games (I.e., pooch kicks). Ultimately we both are on the same side. Good debat, enjoyed it.
 
#178
#178
Volnuck said:
In 1992 (first year of split divisions ) Majors went 5-3 and Phil was 4-0. Phil beat Cincinnati, Georgia, Florida, and Louisiana (Rajun Cajuns). Majors beat LSU, KY, MEMPHIS, VANDY, Boston College. He lost to Arkansas, Bama, S.C. In a row. That cost them The East Championship (the first one) and another shot at Bama. in the championship game. If they upset Bama, they then would played #1 Miami. I love both coaches and you and I disagree on Fulmers legacy but either winning a Natty in 1992 was almost impossible. We can pick specifics about both coaches that cost us games (I.e., pooch kicks). Ultimately we both are on the same side. Good debat, enjoyed it.
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Heath as your QB you got a chance. Get yourself to the title game and it is not impossible. Bama beat TN 17-10. Johnny was soo conservative. Losing to ark and scar took the opportunity off the table and losses that shouldn't have happened
 
#185
#185
Was given the keys to the program about 90% there. He took it the rest of the way but couldn’t keep it there.

Basically he recruited for a 4 year period around Peyton Manning. Other players came to play with Peyton. Fulmer was a good recruiter after that but not to the level when he had Manning.

As AD, he was a complete disaster. Not only did he make the worst HC hire in school history, but he couldn’t get along with the basketball coach. Dept was/is in complete disarray.
 
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#186
#186
iluvsmesumdooley said:
Third best coach, fourth worst AD.
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wmcovol said:
Was given the keys to the program about 90% there. He took it the rest of the way but couldn’t keep it there.

Basically he recruited for a 4 year period around Peyton Manning. Other players came to play with Peyton. Fulmer was a good recruiter after that but not to the level when he had Manning.

As AD, he was a complete disaster. Not only did he make the worst HC hire in school history, but he couldn’t get along with the basketball coach. Dept was/is in complete disarray.
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Because of this I would put Fulmer third as well.
 
#191
#191
In my mind, I tend to keep the two legacies of Fulmer separate regarding what I remember about him...as a coach, he's the guy who harnessed the momentum of the Majors era and turned it into a (modern) national championship-winning program. He got too tired, or maybe too comfortable...I'm not sure anyone other than he can say what started the slipping towards the end of his coaching career. It may have been a work of his ego to stick around past his time, but even in that case I honestly believe that he believed he wanted the best for the program, even at the end. As an AD, I'm not sure why in the hell he decided to hang that bald, drooling albatross around his neck with an extension this past season. I think he let his ego and his desire to do right by the program get in the way of rational thought w.r.t. that and his general handling of Beldar.
 
#192
#192
tbh said:
In my mind, I tend to keep the two legacies of Fulmer separate regarding what I remember about him... as a coach, he's the guy who harnessed the momentum of the Majors era and turned it into a (modern) national championship-winning program. He got too tired, or maybe too comfortable... I'm not sure anyone other than he can sa y what started the slipping towards the end of his coaching career. It may have been a work of his ego to stick around past his time, but even in that case I honestly believe that he believed he wanted the best for the program, even at the end. As an AD, I'm not sure why in the hell he decided to hang that bald, drooling albatross around his neck with an extension this past season. I think he let his ego and his desire to do right by the program get in the way of rational thought w.r.t. that and his general handling of Beldar.
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I have been vocal on this subject. the downfall of his HC career was in large part he could not sustain his recruiting successes as the fortunes of other regional programs changed and the losses of some coaches, most notably Cut he never recovered from. He did not live up to the expectations he created when he was at the top of his game. On the other hand in this world where when if favors peoples arguments we apply the numbers don't lie and you are what your record says you are axioms, and those numbers will forever be 152-52. His last four seasons he had two 5 win seasons and a 9 and a 10 win season. That put his job in play and the rest of the numbers since then are also forever in history. I doubt he was ever going to return to consistent 9 and 10 win only stretches. So we moved on. His overall record and his NC are what they are and should be the basis of his place in our history. Cycles at all the institutions are what they are and UTs will probably be forever longer and steeper than UF, GA, LSU and Bama (now TAM), about the same as AU and shorter and shallower than the rest of the SEC.

As an AD I once again call on everyone to look at the trendlines of all the sports since the day he took over. For sure the bell cow has taken an awful hit due to him not properly assessing Pruitt's ability to turn a great career as a DC into a great career as a HC. Bad choice out of a very limited pool a few weeks before signing day. He owns it because he was in charge. Same is true for all the other sports. I bet in his performance review for most of the other sports was great. Go step through the UT site sport by sport and see how many positives they put out there and not have to make anything up. I think the trendlines for the last three should make us all at least satisfied. So I get the importance of FB but that does not define his overall performance no matter how many folks think it should. That said, I think we are better off with a fresh start at the top with the NCAA trouble we are facing. I think he recognized that too. I am excited the new guy has emphasized ALL the sports, especially at his last stop. If you have not read up on that do so.
 
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#194
#194
vettefool said:
No way he was a better coach than Doug Dickey. Not even close
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I love both coaches. Majors too. But on this subject.

CPF career totals at all UT.
CDD career totals at UT and the school he chose over UT

CPF 152-52
CDD 104-58-6
 
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#195
#195
iluvsmesumdooley said:
Majors. Three SEC titles to Fulmer’s 2, plus he left the program in very good shape while Fulmer left it in shambles. Also, Fulmer did nothing without Cutty.
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1 National > 3 SEC. Sure, maybe some staff members helped carry the load. But Fulmer got it done. Can’t dismiss it. Tennessee stood atop the college football mountain under Fulmer, not Majors. Majors was an excellent coach, but he didn’t get it done.
 
#196
#196
vettefool said:
No way he was a better coach than Doug Dickey. Not even close
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That’s a plausible argument even though 1967 is a fraudulent national title. If we had beaten Oklahoma, then it’d be legit. He had some pretty great wins and the Vols from 1967-1971 were elite. But I still put Fulmer over him. Longevity. Tennessee was elite from 1985-2007 and Fulmer was the coach for most of that.
 
#197
#197
NeverWe'llSever said:
1 National > 3 SEC. Sure, maybe some staff members helped carry the load. But Fulmer got it done. Can’t dismiss it. Tennessee stood atop the college football mountain under Fulmer, not Majors. Majors was an excellent coach, but he didn’t get it done.
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Guess you could kind of apply the same logic to Manning & Martin.
 
#198
#198
Haven't read a single post in this thread. Phil is a national champion and the reason we're not romanticizing about the 1970s instead of the 1990s. He stuck around long enough to become the villain instead of the hero, as some old adage goes, but he will always be a hero to me.
 
#199
#199
mad4vols said:
Guess you could kind of apply the same logic to Manning & Martin.
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You could. Peyton obviously was the better QB and is imo the #3 best QB of all time in terms of the NFL. But yeah, Martin got it done. He had some really, really clutch plays, Martin to Price in Tempe being the most. And just watch that South Carolina game. That’s probably the greatest performance by any UT QB. So yeah, at UT, I probably have to put Martin above Manning to maintain logical continuity in the argument.
 
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#200
#200
NeverWe'llSever said:
1 National > 3 SEC. Sure, maybe some staff members helped carry the load. But Fulmer got it done. Can’t dismiss it. Tennessee stood atop the college football mountain under Fulmer, not Majors. Majors was an excellent coach, but he didn’t get it done.
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Fulmer got it done because of a Stoerner fumble, what Majors built, and Cutty.
 
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