From Chris Low

[rexvol]

While realizing the importance that solid player evaluations and recruiting in general play in the success of a college football program. I’ve never fully understood the zealotry and borderline obsession that seems to be intertwined with the whole recruiting process.
Tennessee fans are no different than anybody else. They hang on every recruiting ranking, yearn for their commitments to be elevated from a three-star prospect to a four-star prospect and worry about where the Vols might finish in the final mythical Top 25 recruiting poll.
Last I checked, they don’t award trophies for those. And when it comes to all those can’t-miss, five-star prospects, I’ve got news for you. As many of them miss as they do hit. Then there are those guys that barely register a blip in the whole recruiting circus that end up being great players.
See Ole Miss’ Patrick Willis.
This is all a long-winded way of saying that if a kid from this state (Knoxville Catholic safety Harrison Smith) decides to bolt for Notre Dame, let him go. It’s his choice, or as some UT fans contend, his father’s choice.
It’s not an exact science, and who’s to say what kind of player Smith will be at the next level?
And if his father is as meddlesome as some with orange agendas suggest, then maybe it’s a blessing in disguise. The Vols already have more members than they know what to do with (current and past) in the Big Orange chapter of the Daddies Club.

he makes a great point about the fathers

 

[sjt18]

Yes. But he whiffs completely on the importance of recruiting.

How long has it been since a team that didn't average top 20 recruiting classes won the national championship? It usually takes those kinds of classes to win the SEC.

I'd like to see a proof that as many 5* players miss as hit... or that droves of 2* players are becoming dominant players.

 

[sjt18]

I think he's right on the Smith comments in general.

Frankly, Smith isn't the best player in Tn... but UT did get the best player from Ga this year.

Good trade off IMO.

 

[exotic_vols]

Patrick Willis was from Tennessee, wasn't he? He was a big hitter, but if I am not wrong, I think we got Omar Gaither who ranked much higher than him, it was hard to choose him over Omar Gaither. by the way, Willis reminded me those two players out of Alabama: Demeco Ryans and Roman Harper; they were not big names out of HS either.

 

[MG1968]

Yes. But he whiffs completely on the importance of recruiting.

How long has it been since a team that didn't average top 20 recruiting classes won the national championship?

how about the 1997 Nebraska Cornhuskers?

I think Chris Lowe's point is that recruiting a bunch of blue chip prospects doesn't guarantee you success. In a lot of cases, these kids never overcome their own egos and never function as a team.

 

[i2amavol]

how about the 1997 Nebraska Cornhuskers?

I think Chris Lowe's point is that recruiting a bunch of blue chip prospects doesn't guarantee you success. In a lot of cases, these kids never overcome their own egos and never function as a team.

Nebraska and coach Pearl are great examples of how coaching CAN overcome less than stellar recruiting. They are big exceptions to the rule, however, and TN's coaching in football has not been a great advantage lately - this year being an exception. Now, if Cutcliff stays for a while, maybe we can turn that part around.

 

[ardent enthusiast]

I thought about how much recruiting for UT football and my interest in the Vols has evolved over the years a few days ago.

My interest in the Vols started when they beat the Razorbacks in the Cotton Bowl, in umm, 1990, I think. Having just moved from Arkansas to Lenoir City (and not knowing anything about football), it made sense to root for the Hogs.

Well, I screwed the pooch on that one, and my middle school friends let me have it. I quickly switched allegiances when UT basketball was having success as well.

Back then I didn't know any of the players but the running backs.

By my senior year in high school (and having moved three years earlier to Missouri), I knew the names of our star athletes. I had no idea who we recruited each year.

I remember Manning and Stewart both coming to UT along with Shuler leaving...and Colquitt in charge. I remember thinking I liked Stewart better.

Still, recruiting didn't mean 2 cents to me. I figured UT would bring in great athletes every year, it just didn't matter to me. I watched the UT games when they were on, and I bought UT stuff when I found it, regardless of what size or what it was in general. I played with Tennessee in college football games most of the time.

The internet changed the way I was a fan in 1998, when I got my first computer. It was the first time I recall ever seeing a team roster for UT.

Still, I can't recall who we recruited after that national championship outside of Ritzmann (I loved how he picked UT over Florida State, at least that's how I remember it).

The following year some site had a poll about who should start at QB: Clausen, Rattay, Mathews, or Suggs. Suggs was my choice (and would be still).

I remember thinking, Tim Rattay?? He's in Louisiana, right? Clausen, I didn't even recognize that name.

Fast forward a few years later, 2002, when the first thing I did when I got to my classroom in Maryland (at a Navy schoolhouse) is go to the UT site to see who officially signed with UT.

Then the past few years when I'm reading about potential 06 recruits in 2004 and 07 recruits in 2005.

It's amazing how much more knowledgeable of a fan I am today, how much more of a fan I am today, thanks to the internet.

Yes...I love technology...

 

[rexvol]

Im not completely sold on Cut as a great developer of talent. yes, he has done wonders with Ainge, but it was his guy coaching the O-Line and they underperformed imo. I think the Vols must have exceptional recruiting classes to overcome our inability to coach them up.

 

[JAllen18MVP]

Im not completely sold on Cut as a great developer of talent. yes, he has done wonders with Ainge, but it was his guy coaching the O-Line and they underperformed imo. I think the Vols must have exceptional recruiting classes to overcome our inability to coach them up.

His guy? Since when is Adkins his guy? Cut's guys are coaching the RBs and the TEs. It's Jimmy Ray Stephens' fault (also Randy Sanders) that the O-line is the way it is right now. They switched to a zone blocking o-line, and it sucked and now that we've switched back to more man blocking, we're still stuck with a bunch of guys who were recruited to play in a zone-blocking system, so they don't fit right. Give Adkins a year or two before you say that he can't coach.

Matt Luke (one of "Cut's guys") has done a very good job this year with the TE's and he is also the recruiting coordinator. Those are both areas that have improved quite a bit this year.

 

[sjt18]

how about the 1997 Nebraska Cornhuskers?

I think Chris Lowe's point is that recruiting a bunch of blue chip prospects doesn't guarantee you success. In a lot of cases, these kids never overcome their own egos and never function as a team.

That may have been what he meant but it wasn't what he said.

Do you have recruiting info from that Nebraska team? They made a pretty good habit of developing linemen at home and bringing some of the nation's better tailbacks and running QB's in from Fl to Ca and all points in between.

 

[sjt18]

Im not completely sold on Cut as a great developer of talent. yes, he has done wonders with Ainge, but it was his guy coaching the O-Line and they underperformed imo.

Underperformed? You have to be kidding. They had Ligon and Sears then had to develop depth and experience on the fly. They have played mostly Soph and Fresh.

They were excellent in pass protection and you can hardly lay the whole fault for the running game at their feet when only Foster (not a great talent) had any experience at all.

If anything, this particular O-line has overperformed.

I think the Vols must have exceptional recruiting classes to overcome our inability to coach them up.

Or maybe the changes in the coaching staff will begin to pay even greater dividends next year. I think they did pretty well with the talent and experience they had on both sides of the ball.

Ainge was much better. The O-line without depth or experience played well and got better. The defense after losing most of its experience wasn't great but wasn't terrible either. The only group with experience finally played to potential- the WR's.

I will completely agree that the Vols squandered tremendous talent under Sanders and behind Clausen. But those days are over and one year is hardly enough time to make the sweeping statement you did above.

 

[tarvol23]

when you cant block anyone from air force to kentucky...., I'm sorry, just cant give the o-line a pass for inexperience. mc clendon was the only true frosh to play any snaps, the rest were redshirt frosh and soph, meaning they had 2-3years in the program.its true, they held up well in terms of pass protection, but outside of coker gashing some big runs, the running game was abyssmal(sp). I mean, they couldn't block anybody.I really hope johnny steps up the lifting this summer and gets these guys more physical.GBO!!!!!

 

[sjt18]

when you cant block anyone from air force to kentucky...., I'm sorry, just cant give the o-line a pass for inexperience.

As I recall, UT scored on every possession except one against AFA and that one ended on an Ainge int that was his fault alone. You can't lay UK off on the o-line either with Ainge not being exactly sharp. Coker had 90 yards and there were opportunities for more.

And yes, experience is at least as important for o-linemen as any other position... and years of physical development may be even more important than any other position. You fairly often see RB's, QB's, WR's, DB's, LB's come in as Freshmen and play effectively. You almost never see o-linemen do it.

mc clendon was the only true frosh to play any snaps, the rest were redshirt frosh and soph, meaning they had 2-3years in the program.

No. They were greatly dependent on guys with less than two years in the program when the season started and guys who had not played a great deal.

its true, they held up well in terms of pass protection, but outside of coker gashing some big runs, the running game was abyssmal(sp).

It will improve. At the same time, you can't lay that all at the feet of the linemen. Neither Coker nor Hardesty had experience and Foster simply didn't play like an SEC caliber back.

I mean, they couldn't block anybody.I really hope johnny steps up the lifting this summer and gets these guys more physical.GBO!!!!!

They do need to be stronger... ummm, that is a part of maturing in the program and why it isn't great when your two deep is about 75% guys with less than two years development.

But again, the RB's have a big part in that failure as well. The biggest part of the failure of the running game though probably doesn't relate to either group. The fact that UT had no effective FB play whatsoever hurt them for most of the season.

 

[ardent enthusiast]

Maybe he meant when you can't tackle anyone from Air Force.

 

[champyvol]

when you cant block anyone from air force to kentucky...., I'm sorry, just cant give the o-line a pass for inexperience. mc clendon was the only true frosh to play any snaps, the rest were redshirt frosh and soph, meaning they had 2-3years in the program.its true, they held up well in terms of pass protection, but outside of coker gashing some big runs, the running game was abyssmal(sp). I mean, they couldn't block anybody.I really hope johnny steps up the lifting this summer and gets these guys more physical.GBO!!!!!

i agree our o-line needs alot of help.

 

[tarvol23]

sjt..
bill mayo
bruce wilkerson
harry galbreath
eric still
todd kirk
antone davis
john fisher
bubba miller
jeff smith
jason layman
chad clifton
spencer riley
cosey coleman
fred weary
scott wells
michael munoz
anthony herrera
jason respert
cody douglas
arron sears
rob smith......all 3 or 4 year starters. you are overplaying the experience angle.outside of sears obviously, the o-lineman stink. I am not saying they wont get better, but they sucked this year. And yes, I am pretty sure Mc clendon was the only true freshman o-lineman to play this year.
and another thing, you are talking about the afa and ky game; I was talking about basically the whole season. how you can gloss over the line play is beyond me man.not trying to be a dick, we just disagree here but we are all orange,GBO!!!

 

[tarvol23]

Maybe he meant when you can't tackle anyone from Air Force.

the vols rushed 32 times for 79 yds against mighty air force. I meant what I said.

 

[sjt18]

......all 3 or 4 year starters. you are overplaying the experience angle.

Not all but I won't argue the particulars because the important point is that each of those guys also played on lines with experienced players and more depth of experience than this year's group.

My main point isn't to claim the run game wasn't sub-par nor that the line bears part of the responsibility. Instead, I think it is simply going way too far to say those guys are terrible or solely to blame.

outside of sears obviously, the o-lineman stink.

Young played good football as did McNeil once he became the starter. Others came along as well.

It also doesn't help when one of your seasoned guys plays no better than Ligon did for much of the year.

I am not saying they wont get better, but they sucked this year.

Cut at times has adknowledged that they focused more on the passing game. Had it been more necessary to run, they might have run better... like last year when they had no other offense.

And yes, I am pretty sure Mc clendon was the only true freshman o-lineman to play this year.

And? I said they were inexperienced as Freshmen and Sophomores. That's all.

Last year's o-line returned Toeaina, Smith, Sears, and Douglas as starters. Their only significant loss was Munoz.

Are you arguing that they hadthis kind of experience at the beginning of this year? I hope not. They didn't even have any idea about who the starters would be except for Sears... they just didn't know enough about their players because most hadn't played much.

and another thing, you are talking about the afa and ky game; I was talking about basically the whole season.

You mentioned those two games as specific examples.

how you can gloss over the line play is beyond me man.

How anyone can look at the dramatic offensive improvements this year in spite of losing several experienced o-linemen and not give those young players a little slack is beyond me. I'm not glossing over anything. UT scored more than 10 more points per game and increased YPG by about 100 if I am not mistaken...

not trying to be a dick, we just disagree here but we are all orange,GBO!!!

I didn't take you that way. It is just funny that people want to recognize the improvements on offense this year but give no credit to a bunch of guys who came in with less experience than you'd usually have at a top level SEC team.

IMO, if Ainge doesn't get hurt, UT is in a BCS bowl at 11-1 with the only loss coming by one point to a team in the NCG. The defense has been good but not great by any stretch. So, how can you possibly avoid giving the o-line credit? If the difference between good run blocking and poor run blocking is this year's O compared to last year's... then give me the pass blocking skill any day.

I actually think the group they have has a real chance of becoming special next year. They'll return 7 or 8 talented guys with experience and another year of development.

 

[sjt18]

the vols rushed 32 times for 79 yds against mighty air force. I meant what I said.

Coker didn't play. Foster got injured that game I think. Frogg was still the starting center. No depth had been developed.

Pretty much what I said. They came in with too little experience to be really consistent at everything though they were good at pass protection all year long... including that game in which Ainge was 24/29 and wasn't pressured much at all.

 

[ardent enthusiast]

the vols rushed 32 times for 79 yds against mighty air force. I meant what I said.

Did we give up any sacks?:whistling:

 

[85Destiny]

I have said this many times. We need to get better up front. Not only stronger, but we are not as athletic as we have been before. The last several years of offensive line play has been average.

However, I don't think we are as bad up front as some have stated.

 

[sjt18]

All I am saying is that those guys are mostly young but they do have talent. I think the young guys are athletic. They just need experience and development.

When you depend too heavily on inexperienced guys, there are going to be weaknesses and inconsistencies.