For you lawyers out there (COVID football opening related)

#76
#76
Clay is going to post whatever he thinks he can sell to get listeners. He’s found a schtick that’s works with a certain segment of the populace and he’s sticking with it. If it takes selling his soul to the devil, so be it. Personally I stopped listening to his show when he started the right wing suck up routine and I won’t be going back. Used to think he was pretty entertaining. No more.
Clay is a voice of reason in a world that increasingly is lurching into left-wing insanity. ESPN going full blown SJW needs another voice to balance the equation and Clay fills that void. I think everyone is fed up with sports broadcasters (Jemele Hill, Shannon Sharp) injecting their politics into the mix, and then NBA players taking a knee while they watch China imprison millions in a gulag. Clay will drop the politics when ESPN does.
 
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#77
#77
My mother used to be a court reporter. She was working one trial where a guy sued Krogers because he was walking down an aisle and a can of biscuits popped open, startling him, and SIX MONTHS LATER he had a heart attack. Krogers paid him $10,000 to go away.

Kroger should have gotten a more efficient defense attorney. I could write this MTD for $1000 bucks.
 
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#78
#78
I don't recall any suits filed during flu season when it sweeps through teams. And that does happen almost every year. Serious question. I'll ask again, legally what makes this virus different? Flu can cause respiratory scarring and myocarditis as well, along with death in a previously healthy individual.
There is no vaccine , there is no proven treatment, it is very contagious, and people refuse to believe it is a serious disease. People are unwilling to follow the scientists recommendations on have to protect the population. Results of Testing for the virus is still almost useless because of the delay processing the test. In the first 6-7 months of the pandemic, there has been a minimum of 5 million reported cases and over 162 thousand deaths reported in the United States, 25 % of the World’s total cases and 20% of World’s deaths.
 
#79
#79
Prove the campus population was more likely to get it as a result of being on campus rather than living their unrestricted lives off campus. As we are told daily, it is highly contagious and already everywhere. And why stop with covid-9? The flu can be deadly - and is - for otherwise healthy individuals as well every year. Are they liable for it also?

Someone said on this site a few weeks ago that proof of getting the flu vaccine is required to live in the dorms. Don’t know if that is true.

The problem with the flu numbers is that states aren’t required to report whether adult deaths were vaccinated or not. But while Covid 19 is not deadly for the college age group, it is more contagious than the flu. Doctors learned how to treat the flu, and that is still developing with Covid 19.

As an attorney, I have said that playing college football is manageable and at the very least, it can be attempted. But the issues can be complex, and it isn’t as simple as some think.
 
#80
#80
No you're not missing anything.

I talked to my lawyer father about it. Yes you'd have to prove they got it because of football which is next to impossible and you'd have to prove some kind of negligence on the part of the university. On top of all that the players are open about their understanding of the risk.

There's all of that and the fact remaining that they are not in any real danger from the virus according to the data and its not like they could prove that if they weren't playing football they wouldn't get it...i mean its a global pandemic! Its everywhere and players got it on their own before they reported to camp.

There's no sense to any of it.
Gross negligence is likely needed. With TONS of testing and everyone know well full the risks...

How is this any different from normal liability?? Football is risky
 
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#81
#81
You cannot simply paint with a broad brush and say that anybody that had a car accident or a gunshot wound or cancer "was already dying".
And you cannot say count such deaths as "Covid" and not count them as "flu" and then create a panic because Covid is "so much more deadly than the flu". CDC has long acknowledged that they undercount flu related deaths. They haven't even tried to count them correctly in spite of the fact that the death count from even the deaths they've counted over the last 5 years dwarfs Covid.

Did you even watch the video? And YES. You can paint with a "broad brush". If someone has a chronic heart condition and Covid stresses them to a point that they die... the primary reason is NOT Covid. It is heart disease.

If the car accident was survivable but you had to go to the hospital to have your wounds treated but then you contracted COVID and died in the hospital than that is most certainly a COVID death because it was the COVID that killed you, not the car accident that landed you in the hospital.
I would mostly agree with that... but you reject the EXACT same logic when it makes Covid the secondary cause.

That's actually not a bad way of looking at it. Would this person die of Covid if they did not have this other serious, life threatening, life shortening condition?

There should be at least three categories of Covid related deaths. Primary cause, secondary cause, incidental. That and a public and repeated explanation of flu death undercounting would help put this thing more in its proper perspective.


And you still have the problem of excess deaths. The number of excess deaths appears to be around 55K (correction- I took the raw data and came up with a difference of just under 140K this morning which includes not only any Covid related deaths but other deaths that can be linked directly to the shutdown)... but that is BEFORE you deduct the deaths that are because of the Covid response. Suicides are up. Drug OD's are up. Murders are up. People have died because they could not or would not go for needed medical care and operations. Then we have the possibility of years cut from people's lives due to stress related illnesses because they lost their jobs, businesses, life's savings, families, etc.

Heart disease is a killer. It doesn't need "help". Covid by and large only kills those who already have other life threatening problems... and even THAT must be viewed with the caveat that death rates have dropped dramatically as our ability to manage cases has improved. The IFR for the last month and a half is likely closer to what it would be going forward with or without a vaccine.... which it is roughly half what it was when CDC indicated the IFR was 0.26%.

So the current IFR is probably 0.13% or less... VERY flu like.... NOT Spanish Flu or Asian Flu like... much less Bubonic Plague or Smallpox.

I have NEVER said this wasn't a serious public health issue. It is. Even if we're simply doubling flu deaths each year which appears to be closer to the case... that's HUGE. But the responses have been AWFUL both from an effectiveness standpoint AND leadership standpoint. "Health officials" should NEVER want to create undue panic. Not only have they done that... they've worked to perpetuate it. The solutions they've pushed have not been effective.

At a time when the public needs to be reassured that they know what they're doing... they want people to wear masks which further divides people while having a terrible psychological effect on people by stoking their fears. These are the same people who less than 5 months ago confidently assured us that the public did NOT need to wear masks and even if we did it would create a shortage for the only ones that are effective.

If you want to buy into the fear narrative and continue to trust people who have been mistaken if not deceptive so many times then I cannot stop you. I'm not buying.... not their numbers and not their "solutions" unless proposed with proof that they'll work.
 
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#82
#82
It's just like when if you need surgery. I.E.: knee replacement and months later end up amputating due to staphylococcus. You cannot sue the hospital for reusing after "sterilizing" the tools/instruments they used in your operation. This is how it was ten years ago. Can't sue a facility you were willing to entrust because literally the germs would be considered impossible to see/detect in the first place. No proof, no suit. Happened to someone I know.......tough card dealt.
 
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#83
#83
Clay is a voice of reason in a world that increasingly is lurching into left-wing insanity. ESPN going full blown SJW needs another voice to balance the equation and Clay fills that void. I think everyone is fed up with sports broadcasters (Jemele Hill, Shannon Sharp) injecting their politics into the mix, and then NBA players taking a knee while they watch China imprison millions in a gulag. Clay will drop the politics when ESPN does.
I don’t listen to opinions on ESPN either. I can make up my own mind without editorials from either side. When they get too radical either way, I’m gone. Don’t have the time or inclination to listen to it.
 
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#84
#84
And you cannot say count such deaths as "Covid" and not count them as "flu" and then create a panic because Covid is "so much more deadly than the flu". CDC has long acknowledged that they undercount flu related deaths. They haven't even tried to count them correctly in spite of the fact that the death count from even the deaths they've counted over the last 5 years dwarfs Covid.

Did you even watch the video? And YES. You can paint with a "broad brush". If someone has a chronic heart condition and Covid stresses them to a point that they die... the primary reason is NOT Covid. It is heart disease.

This is just not right or the way it should be, period. If that person has a heart condition but could live 10, 20 years with that condition then its not what killed them. If a person has completely manageable diabetes and would otherwise live a full and normal life but got COVID and died then they died from COVID because if it weren't for COVID they would still be alive. You can say that having diabetes made things harder for them, but it's not the cause of death because we have a way to manage diabetes that doesn't result in death. If you shoot someone and they die but that person just happened to have terminal cancer, the cause of death is gunshot wound.

The immediate cause of death is the cause of death. Period.
 
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#85
#85
This goes farther than universities. If a person contracts COVID, can they claim it as Workers Comp or IOD? If just one person at their work had it then there's the potential of contracting it at work thus work related. Very hard to prove they didnt get it from that person
The burden would be on the worker to prove, not the company. Not only that, WC usually doesn’t apply to general diseases that affect the population. For WC to apply to a disease it typically has to be a unique working condition that the employment itself caused, such as black lung disease due to being a coal miner. The obvious potential application would be a healthcare worker since their work potentially could force the employees to repeated and prolonged exposure to the virus but they’d still have prove their work caused the illness. WC laws vary by state and I’m not saying it is impossible to find coverage. It’s unlikely though.
 
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#86
#86
Clay is a voice of reason in a world that increasingly is lurching into left-wing insanity. ESPN going full blown SJW needs another voice to balance the equation and Clay fills that void. I think everyone is fed up with sports broadcasters (Jemele Hill, Shannon Sharp) injecting their politics into the mix, and then NBA players taking a knee while they watch China imprison millions in a gulag. Clay will drop the politics when ESPN does.

Clay is trolling you and it makes my day to see "true believers" fall for his act. Yesterday, his friends and former co-workers on Nashville 104.5 were laughing about Clay's fake conservative schtick and how much longer would he keep doing it. I've listened to Clay since he started on the radio here and he is as liberal as the day is long. He is a scammer who wants Twitter followers and listeners. You sheep eat it up by the handfuls.
 
#87
#87
The burden would be on the worker to prove, not the company. Not only that, WC usually doesn’t apply to general diseases that affect the population. For WC to apply to a disease it typically has to be a unique working condition that the employment itself caused, such as black lung disease due to being a coal miner. The obvious potential application would be a healthcare worker since their work potentially could force the employees to repeated and prolonged exposure to the virus but they’d still have prove their work caused the illness. WC laws vary by state and I’m not saying it is impossible to find coverage. It’s unlikely though.
I agree with your points but you laid out the grey areas so well the tv lawyers would be more than happy to argue that to a liberal/employee leaning judge for portion of the judgement
 
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#88
#88
I agree with your points but you laid out the grey areas so well the tv lawyers would be more than happy to argue that to a liberal/employee leaning judge for portion of the judgement
Oh there’s plenty of that already underway. So far the courts have been reasonable. NJ was the first state to see such cases and they sided with the insurance companies if I recall correctly but there are others in progress.
 
#89
#89
Clay is trolling you and it makes my day to see "true believers" fall for his act. Yesterday, his friends and former co-workers on Nashville 104.5 were laughing about Clay's fake conservative schtick and how much longer would he keep doing it. I've listened to Clay since he started on the radio here and he is as liberal as the day is long. He is a scammer who wants Twitter followers and listeners. You sheep eat it up by the handfuls.
He's never pretended to be a conservative, but you don't have to be conservative to oppose the politicization of sports and support Trump. He's revealed his porn handle on his show and his favorite fetishes, so no I have never considered him conservative
 
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#90
#90
Clay is trolling you and it makes my day to see "true believers" fall for his act. Yesterday, his friends and former co-workers on Nashville 104.5 were laughing about Clay's fake conservative schtick and how much longer would he keep doing it. I've listened to Clay since he started on the radio here and he is as liberal as the day is long. He is a scammer who wants Twitter followers and listeners. You sheep eat it up by the handfuls.

People have claimed for years that Rush Limbaugh is "actually" a liberal, having twigged onto the fact that he could make a lot of money as a conservative polemicist while beginning his career in Pittsburgh. That conspiracy, much like the claims regarding Clay Travis, is absolute nonsense.

I understand people contrasting Clay's past liberal positions with his present opinions and sizing him as a charlatan simply trying to make a quick buck, but it completely discounts the prospect of people changing their views and ultimately comes across as a lazy take devoid of nuance. No one says that Arianna Huffington only "became" a liberal to launch HuffPo, so why is the existence of legitimately-conservative pundits or the notion that someone can become more conservative by looking at the absolute cultural lunacy surrounding them so incomprehensible?
 
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#91
#91
People have claimed for years that Rush Limbaugh is "actually" a liberal, having twigged onto the fact that he could make a lot of money as a conservative polemicist while beginning his career in Pittsburgh. That conspiracy, much like the claims regarding Clay Travis, is absolute nonsense.

I understand people contrasting Clay's past liberal positions with his present opinions and sizing him as a charlatan simply trying to make a quick buck, but it completely discounts the prospect of people changing their views and ultimately comes across as a lazy take devoid of nuance. No one says that Arianna Huffington only "became" a liberal to launch HuffPo, so why is the existence of legitimately-conservative pundits or the notion that someone can become more conservative by looking at the absolute cultural lunacy surrounding them so incomprehensible?

When Clay's friends and former co-workers say he's a Democrat and a liberal, I think it's time for you to believe it.
 
#92
#92
When Clay's friends and former co-workers say he's a Democrat and a liberal, I think it's time for you to believe it.

How silly of me to discount the claims of former colleagues who definitely aren't remotely jealous of Clay's career trajectory post-104.5, and who among us doesn't have "friends" who enjoy claiming that we're frauds on the airwaves?
 
#94
#94
How silly of me to discount the claims of former colleagues who definitely aren't remotely jealous of Clay's career trajectory post-104.5, and who among us doesn't have "friends" who enjoy claiming that we're frauds on the airwaves?

Clay calls into 104.5 once a week. They all stay in contact on and off the air.
 
#95
#95
This is just not right or the way it should be, period. If that person has a heart condition but could live 10, 20 years with that condition then its not what killed them. If a person has completely manageable diabetes and would otherwise live a full and normal life but got COVID and died then they died from COVID because if it weren't for COVID they would still be alive. You can say that having diabetes made things harder for them, but it's not the cause of death because we have a way to manage diabetes that doesn't result in death. If you shoot someone and they die but that person just happened to have terminal cancer, the cause of death is gunshot wound.

The immediate cause of death is the cause of death. Period.
Except that is NOT how flu deaths have been counted.... forever. And the comparison that creates the basis for the panic you seem to be relishing in... is to the flu.

The cause of death should be the thing that most contributed to their death. If the person would have died from one thing without the other but not from the other without the one thing... then you cannot count the second thing as THE cause of death.

And again... if we're going to do that then we need to have doctors go back and recertify millions of flu related deaths... that have flu nowhere on the death certificate. Oh, they have to use "suspected" flu related deaths too.
 
#96
#96
Except that is NOT how flu deaths have been counted.... forever. And the comparison that creates the basis for the panic you seem to be relishing in... is to the flu.

The cause of death should be the thing that most contributed to their death. If the person would have died from one thing without the other but not from the other without the one thing... then you cannot count the second thing as THE cause of death.

And again... if we're going to do that then we need to have doctors go back and recertify millions of flu related deaths... that have flu nowhere on the death certificate. Oh, they have to use "suspected" flu related deaths too.


We aren't going to agree on that so lets just leave it be.

Also, people die of flu and it gets called a flu death when it is.

Just like this 10 year old girl from our church. She died from the flu because its the flu that killed her.
http://www.williamsonherald.com/news/article_527a6cf8-b286-5323-a1b4-eeeba985b50d.html

and this guy
Woman starts fundraiser for son of relative who died of flu complications

and this one
https://www.fox10tv.com/news/alabam...cle_b07fc954-4891-11ea-b840-6f3d904c016d.html

and this one
16-year-old girl dies from flu, marking Ohio's first flu-associated pediatric death of season
 
#97
#97
Also, people die of flu and it gets called a flu death when it is.
Sometimes. But by their own admission, CDC systematically misses MANY flu deaths. DIRECTLY from the CDC website:

Under-Counting of Flu-Related Deaths
CDC does not know exactly how many people die from seasonal flu each year. There are several reasons for this:

    • First, states are not required to report individual seasonal flu cases or deaths of people older than 18 years of age to CDC.
    • Second, seasonal influenza is infrequently listed on death certificates of people who die from flu-related complications.
    • Third, many seasonal flu-related deaths occur one or two weeks after a person’s initial infection, either because the person may develop a secondary bacterial co-infection (such as a staph infection) or because seasonal influenza can aggravate an existing chronic illness (such as congestive heart failure or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease).
    • Also, most people who die from seasonal flu-related complications are not tested for flu, or they seek medical care later in their illness when seasonal influenza can no longer be detected from respiratory samples. Influenza tests are most likely to detect influenza if performed soon after onset of illness.
    • For these reasons, many flu-related deaths may not be recorded on death certificates.

So no. They aren't always called "flu deaths" even when they are.
 
#98
#98
Sometimes. But by their own admission, CDC systematically misses MANY flu deaths. DIRECTLY from the CDC website:



So no. They aren't always called "flu deaths" even when they are.


So you're simultaneously arguing that the CDC undercounts AND overcounts? Which is it?
 
#99
#99
So you're simultaneously arguing that the CDC undercounts AND overcounts? Which is it?
They overcount deaths by conflating them with deaths primarily caused by other things... and they undercount the number of cases.

The result was widely distributed reports of IFR's over 1% and as high as 7% that were always false... yet our "trusted" officials allowed those reports to go uncorrected for weeks while panic ramped up.
 
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