For fun. If Johnny Majors had remained coach would he have won a NC?

USAFgolferVol

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Tee Martin > Andy Kelly
Peyton Manning > Andy Kelly
Heath Shuler > Andy Kelly
Casey Clausen > Andy Kelly

That's the thing about Majors' teams. He never really had an elite talent at QB in the 80's. Shuler got there in the 90s, but Majors was already gone by then.

It's tough to say whether we win an NC with Majors, but what's really obvious to me is that we don't win one without him; that is, Majors hired Cutcliffe which directly led to the huge improvement in QB recruiting and play in the 90s. And as much as people talk about Manning, Shuler was the player that really opened the door for us. Shuler's success is partly why Manning and Brandon Stewart both came to Tennessee, which then leads to Tee Martin and Casey Clausen, as well.

The same virtuous cycle that Clemson is seeing right now in QB recruiting. That was us in the 90s and it was thanks to Cutcliffe, who was hired by Majors. Fulmer never could replacade him.
Tony Robinson was better than anyone you mentioned except Peyton Manning. Andy Kelly was better than Tee too. Alan Cockrell was better than Tee. For crying out loud, Majors brought Shuler to Knoxville. Majors is the reason great QBs started coming to Knoxville
 

DiderotsGhost

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Tony Robinson was better than anyone you mentioned except Peyton Manning. Andy Kelly was better than Tee too. Alan Cockrell was better than Tee. For crying out loud, Majors brought Shuler to Knoxville. Majors is the reason great QBs started coming to Knoxville
Tony Robinson was not better than Heath Shuler. Shuler was pretty close to winning a Heisman.

And Andy Kelly is easily one of the most overrated UT QBs of all-time. He threw as many INTs as TD passes.

But I don't know what you're point is since my point is that Majors and Cutcliffe were the reasons we started bringing in great QBs. And you seem to be arguing with my point by further supporting my point. So long as we still get Manning and Tee Martin, Majors wins a national title in the 90s.

I don't really get most of these counter-arguments:

(*) Majors always lost at least one game he shouldn't. Have you all seen Fulmer's track record? Other than a miraculous 1998 season where we dumb-lucked ourselves into several wins in several games we should've lost, Fulmer had the same issue. He lost to Memphis with the greatest QB in UT history. And we only have a national title because Clint Stoerner inexplicably fumbled the football in a game that was already won for Arkansas. Fulmer also blew a national title in 2001 that we probably should've won.

(*) We don't get good QBs without Fulmer. We got them due to Cutcliffe and Majors hired Cutcliffe. So long as Cutcliffe was still here with Majors, Majors win a natty. In fact, Cutcliffe was a better OC than Fulmer, so Fulmer leaving for another job would've probably made Majors look even better.

Fulmer had a generational talent at QB and completely loaded teams and went 0-4 against Florida in that stretch.

If you transport Johnny Majors into the '10s, he probably wins multiple national titles. The talent in Tennessee right now is so much greater than it was in the 1970s and 80s. Probably doesn't take him 7 years to rebuild in the 10's either.

No doubt Johnny declined at the end of his career, but he built Tennessee into a powerhouse. And even in his 80s, the man still ran circles around Fulmer when it comes to hiring coaches. Majors wanted Lane Kiffin. Fulmer wanted Jeremy Pruitt. Who was right?
 
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Volle

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Johnny should have been hired in 1970, but Woodruff was afraid of losing his power base in the AD, and hired Battle instead, which set us back 10 years.

Johnny would have won an NC or two, because the Bear retired and left a huge power vacuum, and Majors was ready to become the Dean of the SEC. With Cut developing QB’s, and Johnny RB’s, we would have had some great offenses. Maybe Shuler would have stayed another year if Johnny stayed.

Johnny got a raw deal, and for his sake, professionally, he should have stayed at Pitt and won another NC or more. He had a good thing going there in a talent rich area.

I worked in the AD in Johnny’s early years at UT, and I’ve never seen a more intense coach on the practice field. He was hands-on and would get in player’s faces to make a point. That’s why his voice was hoarse all the time. RIP JM.
 

kbear01

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Let's see.......Fulmer takes over. All the sudden the offense is putting half a hundred on everyone. The talent level increases. Yet, no title. Close, but no cigar. Then, in 1998, with a new qb, we play Johnny Ball, and run it down people's throats, and play great defense. Natty!! Hmmmm.....
 

USAFgolferVol

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Tony Robinson was not better than Heath Shuler. Shuler was pretty close to winning a Heisman.

And Andy Kelly is easily one of the most overrated UT QBs of all-time. He threw as many INTs as TD passes.

But I don't know what you're point is since my point is that Majors and Cutcliffe were the reasons we started bringing in great QBs. And you seem to be arguing with my point by further supporting my point. So long as we still get Manning and Tee Martin, Majors wins a national title in the 90s.

I don't really get most of these counter-arguments:

(*) Majors always lost at least one game he shouldn't. Have you all seen Fulmer's track record? Other than a miraculous 1998 season where we dumb-lucked ourselves into several wins in several games we should've lost, Fulmer had the same issue. He lost to Memphis with the greatest QB in UT history. And we only have a national title because Clint Stoerner inexplicably fumbled the football in a game that was already won for Arkansas. Fulmer also blew a national title in 2001 that we probably should've won.

(*) We don't get good QBs without Fulmer. We got them due to Cutcliffe and Majors hired Cutcliffe. So long as Cutcliffe was still here with Majors, Majors win a natty. In fact, Cutcliffe was a better OC than Fulmer, so Fulmer leaving for another job would've probably made Majors look even better.

Fulmer had a generational talent at QB and completely loaded teams and went 0-4 against Florida in that stretch.

If you transport Johnny Majors into the '10s, he probably wins multiple national titles. The talent in Tennessee right now is so much greater than it was in the 1970s and 80s. Probably doesn't take him 7 years to rebuild in the 10's either.

No doubt Johnny declined at the end of his career, but he built Tennessee into a powerhouse. And even in his 80s, the man still ran circles around Fulmer when it comes to hiring coaches. Majors wanted Lane Kiffin. Fulmer wanted Jeremy Pruitt. Who was right?n
Robinson was going to win the Heisman. We'll agree to disagree as far as Shuler goes. They were both great
 

CAVPUT

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Tee Martin > Andy Kelly
Peyton Manning > Andy Kelly
Heath Shuler > Andy Kelly
Casey Clausen > Andy Kelly

That's the thing about Majors' teams. He never really had an elite talent at QB in the 80's. Shuler got there in the 90s, but Majors was already gone by then.

It's tough to say whether we win an NC with Majors, but what's really obvious to me is that we don't win one without him; that is, Majors hired Cutcliffe which directly led to the huge improvement in QB recruiting and play in the 90s. And as much as people talk about Manning, Shuler was the player that really opened the door for us. Shuler's success is partly why Manning and Brandon Stewart both came to Tennessee, which then leads to Tee Martin and Casey Clausen, as well.

The same virtuous cycle that Clemson is seeing right now in QB recruiting. That was us in the 90s and it was thanks to Cutcliffe, who was hired by Majors. Fulmer never could replace him.
Clausen is one of my all-time favorites. If not underrated, he's certainly under appreciated. Guy had moxie and swag. While not the most talented, the kid was a leader and warrior on the field.
 
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ATLVols

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No. He was too conservative in his offense and willingness to put teams away. Phil brought in a tenacity to put up big points against our opponent and that excitement helped recruit even better players like Peyton Manning.
 
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ksgovols

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My best friend played at Bama and I posed this question to him. His response was Majors would not have won one. He would have won several. He said he never felt so helpless in a game as to win he was playing against a Johnny Majors offense.
He must of played on the 82-84 Bama teams. Only years a Majors coached team ever beat Alabama and the Vols had better talent plenty of years after that. Duece for 2 pt conversion to tie. Block FG to win turns into FG to win by Bama in a game only CJM would appreciate. 9-6 FG duel or a tie.

Alabama was to Majors what Florida was to Fulmer.
 

Backwards K

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Nope. IF he couldn't win it with the talent he had in 89-92, then he never would have won it. He was a great recruiter and program builder but a terrible game day coach. He lost more games to inferior teams than any coach in the history of the SEC. From 89-92, UT had the greatest talent of any school in the country but Johnny always. managed to mismanage enough games to not even get in the hunt for the title. He didn't even win an outright SEC title with any of those schools. The 85 team could be in that same category as well. Poor game management cost them a tie to UCLA and Ga Tech.....and ultimately a shot at the National Title.
 
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ENGRVOL

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Nope. IF he couldn't win it with the talent he had in 89-92, then he never would have won it. He was a great recruiter and program builder but a terrible game day coach. He lost more games to inferior teams than any coach in the history of the SEC. From 89-92, UT had the greatest talent of any school in the country but Johnny always. managed to mismanage enough games to not even get in the hunt for the title. He didn't even win an outright SEC title with any of those schools. The 85 team could be in that same category as well. Poor game management
Agree. The 1990 team was a good example of a ridiculously talented team that folded at the wrong moments when victory was in reach. Whether it was the blocked fg against bama that went backwards like 50yds to setup bama’s game winner or the int in the end zone by Kelly to end a great comeback against the #1 team in the country or having the clock run out against the eventual national champions Colorado while you are driving down the field ending the game in a tie, or letting a mediocre auburn team back in a game for a tie that you should have won there didn’t seem to be the best end of game management during the end of his tenure at tennessee.
 
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USAFgolferVol

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Majors' recruiting was top shelf from 1978 till his firing. Look at the RBs: Glenn Ford, James Berry, Chuck Coleman, Hubert Simpson, Johnnie Jones, Will Howard, Sam Henderson, Greg Amsler, Reggie Cobb, Chuck Webb, James Stewart, Aaron Hayden and CHARLIE GARNER! Offensive lineman: Bruce Wilkerson, Harry Galbreath, Antone Davis, John Bruhin, etc., there were others whose names escape me for now. HELL, we became WRU under Majors. Anthony Hancock, Clyde Duncan, Tim McGee, Willie Gault, Alvin Harper, Carl Pickens, Cory Fleming, among others I'm sure I've missed. The development of this group was led by Kippy Brown, one of the many great assistants from the Majors' coaching tree. There aren't too many in the Fulmer tree. Remember, Majors hired both Cutcliffe and Chavis, who eventually became a good, but not great DC
 

USAFgolferVol

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No. He was too conservative in his offense and willingness to put teams away. Phil brought in a tenacity to put up big points against our opponent and that excitement helped recruit even better players like Peyton Manning.
Clausen beat Bama and Florida both twice on the road. Never mind that he beat Miami on the road.

While Majors did struggle with Bama, he did beat them 4 times in a row. And beat a Spurrier led Florida team 45-7
 
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HoptownVol

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Robinson was going to win the Heisman. We'll agree to disagree as far as Shuler goes. They were both great
I don't think I've ever seen this mentions, Tony was great and most likely he would have gotten some Heisman votes, but at best he would have been a distant 5th even if he had thrown 20+ TDs that year. Ironically at the end of the season Dickey was the better QB.
 

USAFgolferVol

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I don't think I've ever seen this mentions, Tony was great and most likely he would have gotten some Heisman votes, but at best he would have been a distant 5th even if he had thrown 20+ TDs that year. Ironically at the end of the season Dickey was the better QB.
Robinson suffered a season ending knee injury against Alabama.

Your last statement is remarkably absurd. Good grief
 
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