First year coaches on probation

#1
NighthawkVol

NighthawkVol

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#1
If Tennessee is to be handed a postseason ban, I think most are in agreement that it would be best to get it out of the way in Year 1 of the Heupel era. It's better for recruiting and Year 1 is the year you're least likely to go to a good bowl (if any).

So I was thinking about past coaches who were ineligible for the postseason in their first year at a school. I could only think of four. And all were successful.

1990-Steve Spurrier at Florida (9-2)
1993-Terry Bowden at Auburn (11-0)
2012-Urban Meyer at Ohio State (12-0)
2012-Bill O'Brien at Penn State (8-4)

Maybe there is something to being on probation that takes pressure off a team, allows a coach to instill new culture, and the team plays with nothing to lose. Am I missing any others?
 
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#2
#2
GregAmsler said:
If Tennessee is to be handed a postseason ban, I think most are in agreement that it would be best to get it out of the way in Year 1 of the Heupel era. It's better for recruiting and Year 1 is the year you're least likely to go to a good bowl (if any).

So I was thinking about past coaches who were ineligible for the postseason in their first year at a school. I could only think of four. And all were successful.

1990-Steve Spurrier at Florida (9-2)
1993-Terry Bowden at Auburn (11-0)
2012-Urban Meyer at Ohio State (12-0)
2012-Bill O'Brien at Penn State (8-4)

Maybe there is something to being on probation that takes pressure off a team, allows a coach to instill new culture, and the team plays with nothing to lose. Am I missing any others?
Click to expand...
The biggest difference is all those coaches had teams which were loaded with talent. Tennessee is not loaded with 4-5 star talent. I am not saying it can not be done, but it is unlikely seeing that we have to play Alabama, Georgia, and Florida who will likely be rated in the top 6-8 teams in the Country.
 
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#3
#3
VOLINVONORE said:
The biggest difference is all those coaches had teams which were loaded with talent. Tennessee is not loaded with 4-5 star talent. I am not saying it can not be done, but it is unlikely seeing that we have to play Alabama, Georgia, and Florida who will likely be rated in the top 6-8 teams in the Country.
Click to expand...

Loaded with talent?

Their win totals the prior year were, respectively, 7 (Florida, with Emmitt Smith), 5 (Auburn), 6 (Ohio St), and 9 (Penn State). And we all know what NCAA sanctions did to Penn State’s roster.

I think a lot of folks discount the impact of player development and positive culture. Steve Spurrier didn’t walk into a bunch of 5* talent in Gainesville. But he installed a system that maximized his players’ talents, brought in a culture of confidence, and developed the most important position in sports better than anyone in college football so that guys like Shane Matthews and Danny Weurffel went from lightly recruited bench warmers to superstars.

That said, you’re correct about Tennessee’s schedule. I’m not predicting a 12-0 or even 9-3 season. I’m just saying this team might surprise some folks. A probation year might just take some pressure off and allow this team to play loose and to the best of its abilities. I think 8-4 would be the absolute most we could expect and would make most happy in year 1.
 
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#5
#5
Tman44 said:
Those teams all had the luxury of playing with the players they cheated to get. All of our Mc$ guys hit the transfer portal and are now at OU, etc. If those guys would have stayed, I could see a really good season 1 for CJH.
Click to expand...
Those Mc$ guys never produced much here. Why do you think they will be any better at OU?
 
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#7
#7
VOLINVONORE said:
The biggest difference is all those coaches had teams which were loaded with talent. Tennessee is not loaded with 4-5 star talent. I am not saying it can not be done, but it is unlikely seeing that we have to play Alabama, Georgia, and Florida who will likely be rated in the top 6-8 teams in the Country.
Click to expand...

Phil Steele laughing.

I hope he's right!
 
#8
#8
Oh boy, what was Matt Luke's record? The problem is many past coaches have had more to show for their cheating than Beldar did and whatever benefit Beldar gained us with the bags, we lost most of those players in the Portal.
 
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#10
#10
If I remember correctly, the NCAA thought they were slapping Florida on the wrist.

In 1989, Florida went to the Freedom Bowl and Emmitt Smith entered the NFL Draft. The previous two years, they went to the Aloha Bowl and All-American Bowl.

So, saying you're not eligible to win the SEC...(which they hadn't won) and you can't play in the Freedom Bowl this year seemed like a pretty light punishment.

Cost them an SEC title and a trip to the Sugar Bowl.
 
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#11
#11
GregAmsler said:
If Tennessee is to be handed a postseason ban, I think most are in agreement that it would be best to get it out of the way in Year 1 of the Heupel era. It's better for recruiting and Year 1 is the year you're least likely to go to a good bowl (if any).

So I was thinking about past coaches who were ineligible for the postseason in their first year at a school. I could only think of four. And all were successful.

1990-Steve Spurrier at Florida (9-2)
1993-Terry Bowden at Auburn (11-0)
2012-Urban Meyer at Ohio State (12-0)
2012-Bill O'Brien at Penn State (8-4)

Maybe there is something to being on probation that takes pressure off a team, allows a coach to instill new culture, and the team plays with nothing to lose. Am I missing any others?
Click to expand...

Those guys didn't have to deal with the transfer portal + NIL turning all players into mercenaries.
 
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#12
#12
VOLINVONORE said:
The biggest difference is all those coaches had teams which were loaded with talent. Tennessee is not loaded with 4-5 star talent. I am not saying it can not be done, but it is unlikely seeing that we have to play Alabama, Georgia, and Florida who will likely be rated in the top 6-8 teams in the Country.
Click to expand...

Loaded with talent?

Their win totals the prior year were, respectively, 7 (Florida, with Emmitt Smith), 5 (Auburn), 6 (Ohio St), and 9 (Penn State). And we all know what NCAA sanctions did to Penn State’s roster.

I think a lot of y’all discount the impact of player development and positive culture. Steve Spurrier didn’t walk into a bunch of 5* talent in Gainesville. But he installed a system that maximized his players’ talents, brought in a culture of confidence, and developed the most important position in sports better than anyone in college football so that guys like Shane Matthews and Danny Weurffel went from lightly recruited bench warmers to superstars.
LordBolton said:
Those guys didn't have to deal with the transfer portal + NIL turning all players into mercenaries.
Click to expand...

They also couldn’t grab players out of the transfer portal to plug immediate holes or benefit from Covid seniors providing depth but not counting against the 85.

But then again, pointing out things that might benefit Tennessee isn’t Vol fan-like, is it?

Forgive me. The sky is falling. Carry on.
 
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#13
#13
GregAmsler said:
Loaded with talent?

Their win totals the prior year were, respectively, 7 (Florida, with Emmitt Smith), 5 (Auburn), 6 (Ohio St), and 9 (Penn State). And we all know what NCAA sanctions did to Penn State’s roster.

I think a lot of y’all discount the impact of player development and positive culture. Steve Spurrier didn’t walk into a bunch of 5* talent in Gainesville. But he installed a system that maximized his players’ talents, brought in a culture of confidence, and developed the most important position in sports better than anyone in college football so that guys like Shane Matthews and Danny Weurffel went from lightly recruited bench warmers to superstars.


They also couldn’t grab players out of the transfer portal to plug immediate holes or benefit from Covid seniors providing depth but not counting against the 85.

But then again, pointing out things that might benefit Tennessee isn’t Vol fan-like, is it?

Forgive me. The sky is falling. Carry on.
Click to expand...
I, for sure do not think the sky is falling. I think our offense this Fall will surprise most people and we will score a lot of points. I think recruiting will pick up in 2022 and beyond. I think will will be a much better team in the future. However, I think the SEC is a much stronger league now than it was when Spurrier started at Florida or when Saban came to Alabama. I think Georgia has had better talent than most schools in the Nation but they have still not won a National Championship since Walker ran over every body in the SEC. They have waste no talent than any team in the history of college football. All I am saying is that the leagues is the strongest in the Nation, has the best coaches in the Nation, and have more talent than any other Conference in the Nation. Therefore, it may take a couple of years for us to catch up with the rest of the top ten team in the Nation, but I do think can be done. Just not next year.
 
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#14
#14
VOLINVONORE said:
I, for sure do not think the sky is falling. I think our offense this Fall will surprise most people and we will score a lot of points. I think recruiting will pick up in 2022 and beyond. I think will will be a much better team in the future. However, I think the SEC is a much stronger league now than it was when Spurrier started at Florida or when Saban came to Alabama. I think Georgia has had better talent than most schools in the Nation but they have still not won a National Championship since Walker ran over every body in the SEC. They have waste no talent than any team in the history of college football. All I am saying is that the leagues is the strongest in the Nation, has the best coaches in the Nation, and have more talent than any other Conference in the Nation. Therefore, it may take a couple of years for us to catch up with the rest of the top ten team in the Nation, but I do think can be done. Just not next year.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of that. Pretty much the way I feel.

The sky is falling comment wasn’t in response to you. Sorry for the weird way it quoted the thread.
 
#16
#16
onevol74 said:
Those Mc$ guys never produced much here. Why do you think they will be any better at OU?
Click to expand...
Good Question. There was ZERO player development under Pruitt and co. CJH and staff seem to be focused on teaching and development. Those guys will thrive under a competent regime.
 
#17
#17
GregAmsler said:
Loaded with talent?

Their win totals the prior year were, respectively, 7 (Florida, with Emmitt Smith), 5 (Auburn), 6 (Ohio St), and 9 (Penn State). And we all know what NCAA sanctions did to Penn State’s roster.

I think a lot of folks discount the impact of player development and positive culture. Steve Spurrier didn’t walk into a bunch of 5* talent in Gainesville. But he installed a system that maximized his players’ talents, brought in a culture of confidence, and developed the most important position in sports better than anyone in college football so that guys like Shane Matthews and Danny Weurffel went from lightly recruited bench warmers to superstars.

That said, you’re correct about Tennessee’s schedule. I’m not predicting a 12-0 or even 9-3 season. I’m just saying this team might surprise some folks. A probation year might just take some pressure off and allow this team to play loose and to the best of its abilities. I think 8-4 would be the absolute most we could expect and would make most happy in year 1.
Click to expand...
I would be absolutely ecstatic with 8-4
 
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#20
#20
GregAmsler said:
Loaded with talent?

Their win totals the prior year were, respectively, 7 (Florida, with Emmitt Smith), 5 (Auburn), 6 (Ohio St), and 9 (Penn State). And we all know what NCAA sanctions did to Penn State’s roster.

I think a lot of folks discount the impact of player development and positive culture. Steve Spurrier didn’t walk into a bunch of 5* talent in Gainesville. But he installed a system that maximized his players’ talents, brought in a culture of confidence, and developed the most important position in sports better than anyone in college football so that guys like Shane Matthews and Danny Weurffel went from lightly recruited bench warmers to superstars.

That said, you’re correct about Tennessee’s schedule. I’m not predicting a 12-0 or even 9-3 season. I’m just saying this team might surprise some folks. A probation year might just take some pressure off and allow this team to play loose and to the best of its abilities. I think 8-4 would be the absolute most we could expect and would make most happy in year 1.
Click to expand...

8-4 would earn Huepel coach of the year in the SEC, and possibly nationally.
 
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