Financial Factors - Rick Barnes

[CTVolsfan14]

Something nobody seems to be talking about, but being from the northeast and working in NYC for many years is something that is very clear in any job/ move decision to me - State Income Tax.

California is the highest in the country, 12.3%. Under his new deal, Barnes is set to make an average of $3.5M until 2023-24. The adjusted rate for the same pay in CA is around $3.94M. What is UCLA's offer here, only speculation. But they bowed out of Jamie Dixon's $8M buyout, Barnes I believe is 5 here (feel free to fact check me). Realistically, is the offer $5M a year? $6.5M? The move to UCLA would be a financial decision I would assume for a man from right down the road in Hickory. Color me crazy, Barnes doesn't scream Hollywood to me. This is different then Kiffin, vastly so.

My point is, Tennessee doesn't have to go penny for penny with UCLA. It's a historic program, but it would require Barnes to uproot his family's life at 64, and rebuild an entire program that probably views themselves higher then what they truly are (ouch, kind of sounded familiar there but I digress). What's the $ amount to that worth? Different for any man I suppose. This screams Barnes just using the deep pockets of Westwood to get some more dollars out of Tennessee. He's not wrong for doing so. I left my last job for a $25k increase in salary, I'm sure many reading this have made similar choices in the past. How can we judge for a man considering a 7 figure raise? It doesn't matter that he's already making money most of us could only dream of, you only become successful in life by never being content. You're worth what others on the free market are willing to offer. Yes he just agreed to an extension, but his value has gone up too. Markets change.

Pony up some extra donor dollars, perhaps in the $1-2M range, and Barnes is going nowhere. This is now up to the administration. Maybe this is the North in me where we're always taught to look out for yourself first before a job, but IMO Barnes isn't the bad guy here. It's sad to me so much of our fan base has destroyed him on social media already for simply "listening". There's no way Phil wants to conduct two basketball HC searches simultaneously. I will be shocked if he is not retained.

Relax, go about your work week in peace. Rant over; over and out.

 

[JMSqb11]

Something nobody seems to be talking about, but being from the northeast and working in NYC for many years is something that is very clear in any job/ move decision to me - State Income Tax.

California is the highest in the country, 12.3%. Under his new deal, Barnes is set to make an average of $3.5M until 2023-24. The adjusted rate for the same pay in CA is around $3.94M. What is UCLA's offer here, only speculation. But they bowed out of Jamie Dixon's $8M buyout, Barnes I believe is 5 here (feel free to fact check me). Realistically, is the offer $5M a year? $6.5M? The move to UCLA would be a financial decision I would assume for a man from right down the road in Hickory. Color me crazy, Barnes doesn't scream Hollywood to me. This is different then Kiffin, vastly so.

My point is, Tennessee doesn't have to go penny for penny with UCLA. It's a historic program, but it would require Barnes to uproot his family's life at 64, and rebuild an entire program that probably views themselves higher then what they truly are (ouch, kind of sounded familiar there but I digress). What's the $ amount to that worth? Different for any man I suppose. This screams Barnes just using the deep pockets of Westwood to get some more dollars out of Tennessee. He's not wrong for doing so. I left my last job for a $25k increase in salary, I'm sure many reading this have made similar choices in the past. How can we judge for a man considering a 7 figure raise? It doesn't matter that he's already making money most of us could only dream of, you only become successful in life by never being content. You're worth what others on the free market are willing to offer. Yes he just agreed to an extension, but his value has gone up too. Markets change.

Pony up some extra donor dollars, perhaps in the $1-2M range, and Barnes is going nowhere. This is now up to the administration. Maybe this is the North in me where we're always taught to look out for yourself first before a job, but IMO Barnes isn't the bad guy here. It's sad to me so much of our fan base has destroyed him on social media already for simply "listening".

Relax, go about your work week in peace. Rant over; over and out.

If Barnes is getting 8 million from UCLA alone, that is enough to take the job. On top of it, if UCLA is able to get him while saving 3 million vs Dixon, Barnes could likely get a huge increase in assistant coach salary pool...

If Barnes is getting massive pay raises for himself and his staff and not getting them here, it is a no brainer.

Outside of the financial situation/comparison, Barnes would be getting a major increase in talent compared to Tennessee even in a rebuilding year.

He's 64 and likely retires at 70...... Which school gives him a better chance at deep tourney run without having to rebuild the roster every 2-3 years?

 

[Raebo]

Do not forget the cost of housing (probably 10 times higher) and everything else. I think a lot of it has to do with the talent that UCLA can bring in.

 

[Volfan2012]

Barnes is a guy that is 64 and worth at least 30 million why would he want the city of Los Angeles for any amount of money. I wonder if he knows that several guys are leaving and knows that the hit on the team is to heavy to have much better than a .500 season next year. I was really surprised that he would be interested in going there and thought money would be the last thing he would be interested in at this point in his career. However I guess we never get enough money so we'll see what happens. I expect Tennessee will go a lot higher to keep him may not match what UCLA is prepared to offer him.

 

[JMSqb11]

Barnes is a guy that is 64 and worth at least 30 million why would he want the city of Los Angeles for any amount of money. I wonder if he knows that several guys are leaving and knows that the hit on the team is to heavy to have much better than a .500 season next year. I was really surprised that he would be interested in going there and thought money would be the last thing he would be interested in at this point in his career. However I guess we never get enough money so we'll see what happens. I expect Tennessee will go a lot higher to keep him may not match what UCLA is prepared to offer him.

He wants to win a title before he retires as that is the last thing on earth he hasn't accomplished and that ain't happening at Tennessee.

 

[BeecherVol]

If Barnes is getting 8 million from UCLA alone, that is enough to take the job. On top of it, if UCLA is able to get him while saving 3 million vs Dixon, Barnes could likely get a huge increase in assistant coach salary pool...

If Barnes is getting massive pay raises for himself and his staff and not getting them here, it is a no brainer.

Outside of the financial situation/comparison, Barnes would be getting a major increase in talent compared to Tennessee even in a rebuilding year.

He's 64 and likely retires at 70...... Which school gives him a better chance at deep tourney run without having to rebuild the roster every 2-3 years?

On the flip side. If he struggled for the next 2 or 3 seasons at either place (in regards to tournament runs) he has built some equity at 1 school while the other is trying to revive itself.

With that big paycheck from that prestigious school comes a different level of pressure and more is asked of you and sooner.

Given his age and general feeling around him, I don't think the answer is as simple as more prestigious school and more money. I could buy that if he was 54.

 

[JMSqb11]

On the flip side. If he struggled for the next 2 or 3 seasons at either place (in regards to tournament runs) he has built some equity at 1 school while the other is trying to revive itself.

With that big paycheck from that prestigious school comes a different level of pressure and more is asked of you and sooner.

Given his age and general feeling around him, I don't think the answer is as simple as more prestigious school and more money. I could buy that if he was 54.

UCLA gives him a faster way to stay relevant over Tennessee.

UCLA will always be able to recruit multiple 4-5 stars year in and year out.

Tennessee will always have a 3-4 year cycle where they have a really good team and then have to rebuild.

Which route does Barnes want to spend his last 5-6 years of coaching?

 

[CTVolsfan14]

UCLA gives him a faster way to stay relevant over Tennessee.

UCLA will always be able to recruit multiple 4-5 stars year in and year out.

Tennessee will always have a 3-4 year cycle where they have a really good team and then have to rebuild.

Which route does Barnes want to spend his last 5-6 years of coaching?

I just don't agree with this logic right now. It's a major gamble. Is UCLA a better program overall then Tennessee? Yes. For the next 4-5 years, who is in a better position to win? Tennessee is the known, UCLA is the unknown. I think we have all seen banking on the resources, tradition and boosters to automatically elevate you to winning titles well.. it doesn't always work out that way.

I think it's more about the finances of it. If Tennessee can get in the ballpark I don't think they lose him.

 

[JMSqb11]

I just don't agree with this logic right now. It's a major gamble. Is UCLA a better program overall then Tennessee? Yes. For the next 4-5 years, who is in a better position to win? Tennessee is the known, UCLA is the unknown. I think we have all seen banking on the resources, tradition and boosters to automatically elevate you to winning titles well.. it doesn't always work out that way.

I think it's more about the finances of it. If Tennessee can get in the ballpark I don't think they lose him.

UCLA was able to get five 4-5 stars last year even with Alford on the way out.....

UCLA will always be able to get multiple 4-5 stars to commit year in and year out.

Tennessee will get a 1 or 2 big names every 3-4 years, but for the most part will have to develop the roster over 2-3 years before making major strides.

If you're Barnes and the only thing left to do in your career is win a Natty, you go to the place that is going to pay you and your staff major money while being able to walk out your backdoor to land multiple 4-5 stars every offseason......

Given what he did with Admiral, Grant, Kyle, and Bone, imagine what he could do with multiple top 100 recruits now that he has clearly rejuvenated himself

 

[Volfan2012]

Says his decision isn't going to be based on money so evidently there may be no way to keep him here. Seems he wants something he doesn't think Tennessee will ever provide. I guess he thinks no way he can recruit here well enough to ever win the title. UCLA of course he certainly could get the recruits to make a title happen. Williams probably leaving and Bone with Admiral graduating that is enough right there to scare you to another job.

 

[njvols]

He wants to win a title before he retires as that is the last thing on earth he hasn't accomplished and that ain't happening at Tennessee.

Valid point. Alot tougher in SEC for a non traditional power, vs history of UCLA and weaker conference....

 

[Volunteer08]

UCLA gives him a faster way to stay relevant over Tennessee.

UCLA will always be able to recruit multiple 4-5 stars year in and year out.

Tennessee will always have a 3-4 year cycle where they have a really good team and then have to rebuild.

Which route does Barnes want to spend his last 5-6 years of coaching?

This is it. If Barnes wants to win this late in his career, UCLA gives him a better chance to do that. CT said he doesn't agree and pressure is one of the reasons - if he doesn't work out at UCLA, I see him retiring. I don't think the pressure at UCLA would be any different than what he has at UT while keeping in mind it's late in his career.

 

[JMSqb11]

This is it. If Barnes wants to win this late in his career, UCLA gives him a better chance to do that. CT said he doesn't agree and pressure is one of the reasons - if he doesn't work out at UCLA, I see him retiring. I don't think the pressure at UCLA would be any different than what he has at UT while keeping in mind it's late in his career.

Bingo. If he is retiring in 5-6 years, what is it to him if UCLA cans him in 4 years......

Answer is nothing. Thanks for the money

 

[Knuckleheaded]

The prospects in the LA Metro area on a yearly basis and throughout the state of California make the UCLA job hard to turn down--plus UCLA is the marquee program in the PAC-10 and the entire West Coast, especially with the nonsense going on at Arizona.

 

[savannahfan]

For me, money is not the main factor for us UT fans.

I am just glad to have a basketball coach with enough success to be wanted by someone else.

 

[CTVolsfan14]

Bingo. If he is retiring in 5-6 years, what is it to him if UCLA cans him in 4 years......

Answer is nothing. Thanks for the money

Fair point here. I just don't know if UCLA is really just a A- coach away from being a national champion, but that remains to be seen I suppose.

 

[JMSqb11]

Fair point here. I just don't know if UCLA is really just a A- coach away from being a national champion, but that remains to be seen I suppose.

Well they have talent walking thru the door year in and year out.

 

[CTVolsfan14]

Well they have talent walking thru the door year in and year out.

He didn't have 4 and 5 stars and future NBA players coming in year in and year out at Texas too? He just landed a 5 star at Tennessee with all the momentum in the world, you don't think he thinks the program is better suited to potentially land higher recruits in the future?

Do you think the thought has crossed his mind that potentially his coaching style is better suited for more of the Tennessee, roster building model later in his career as apposed to relying on the Durants, Turners, Augustin's of the world and consistently reshape your team?

I don't know what's going through his head and neither do you. But you seem to have a very black and white approach to this and that is comically inaccurate. A lot of factors here.

 

[JMSqb11]

He didn't have 4 and 5 stars and future NBA players coming in year in and year out at Texas too? He just landed a 5 star at Tennessee with all the momentum in the world, you don't think he thinks the program is better suited to potentially land higher recruits in the future?

Do you think the thought has crossed his mind that potentially his coaching style is better suited for more of the Tennessee, roster building model later in his career as apposed to relying on the Durants, Turners, Augustin's of the world and consistently reshape your team?

I don't know what's going through his head and neither do you. But you seem to have a very black and white approach to this and that is comically inaccurate. A lot of factors here.

"A 5 star" meaning 1...... He ain't getting multiple 4-5 star guys every year at Tennessee like he would at UCLA.

Alford was able to land five 4-5 stars last year alone. Barnes wasn't even doing that at Texas.

UCLA's recruiting base is its own backyard.

He had spurts and runs of really good recruiting at Texas, but it was nothing like that stockpile of talent he would have or any coach would have at UCLA.

UCLA would by far be the easiest job for him in terms of recruiting because he would never need to leave town.

 

[BeecherVol]

UCLA gives him a faster way to stay relevant over Tennessee.

UCLA will always be able to recruit multiple 4-5 stars year in and year out.

Tennessee will always have a 3-4 year cycle where they have a really good team and then have to rebuild.

Which route does Barnes want to spend his last 5-6 years of coaching?

Relevant and winning that championship you are referring to are very different things. Duke and UK were both relevant this year with the elite talent and neither made the final weekend. And they are just the 2 easy targets pick right now.

Im not arguing that UCLA isn't a better job, and may be willing to pay bigger and is a bigger basketball draw. Im arguing that is it a better job for a guy that may not coach but 5-6 more years and is essentially home right now? Barnes strength with players (at least here) was development. That takes years. These 4 (mostly) 5 stars make some things easier and other things harder. Ask Cal and K if its just a breeze to win the tournament with just the best talent. K is having to totally rebuild his roster next year and if he stays on the same path will probably be doing the same 12 months later. Cal has been doing it for a decade and while he's won a ton of games he has 1 AA title to show for it. Im just not sure that fits Barnes as a coach. He did a great job here building a team but he didn't do that with recruiting classes that exit after a year.

The "route" over a short span is not all that different, the biggest difference may just be the $ and may be thats all it takes.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I can't, for the life of me, imagine CRB in LA. He would be in for a rude awakening if he diverts a weekly press conference to talk about two of his players getting baptized.

 

[JMSqb11]

Relevant and winning that championship you are referring to are very different things. Duke and UK were both relevant this year with the elite talent and neither made the final weekend. And they are just the 2 easy targets pick right now.

Im not arguing that UCLA isn't a better job, and may be willing to pay bigger and is a bigger basketball draw. Im arguing that is it a better job for a guy that may not coach but 5-6 more years and is essentially home right now? Barnes strength with players (at least here) was development. That takes years. These 4 (mostly) 5 stars make some things easier and other things harder. Ask Cal and K if its just a breeze to win the tournament with just the best talent. K is having to totally rebuild his roster next year and if he stays on the same path will probably be doing the same 12 months later. Cal has been doing it for a decade and while he's won a ton of games he has 1 AA title to show for it. Im just not sure that fits Barnes as a coach. He did a great job here building a team but he didn't do that with recruiting classes that exit after a year.

The "route" over a short span is not all that different, the biggest difference may just be the $ and may be thats all it takes.

Barnes has no choice but develop guys at Tennessee to be good.

But being at a school where you constantly have the majority of your roster being 4-5 stars is better and maximizes his remaining coaching years.

At Tennessee with Bone/Grant departures, he will have to scrap to get a tourney spot and have to spend next 2-3 years developing players.....

So Tennessee will fall back to bubble team status for next 2-3 years with hope of developing another batch of Bones and Admirals and Grants or go to UCLA, get paid, and have a plethora of 4-5 stars year in and year out.


Also regarding Cal and Coach K.... Yes they haven't won a lot of titles in the current day and age. However, Barnes isn't trying to win a lot of titles. He just wants to win one before retiring.

Barnes taking UCLA Job is about seeing his window of making a run at a title being much wider than at Tennessee.

Talent plays a factor in that.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

SALT Cap will be a huge hit for a lot of people this year.

 

[GulfCoasterVol]

Maybe he thinks the officiating will be better on the left coast........

 

[Schasz]

He wants to win a title before he retires as that is the last thing on earth he hasn't accomplished and that ain't happening at Tennessee.

Good luck with that with all that talent you keep mentioning. The UCLA Bruins have not won a NCAA Championship since 1995...24 years ago. Also don't forget about all the talent CRB had at Texas...one Final Four and ZERO NCAA Championships!!!