Fake Injury rule change

#51

TheVolsFrog

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#51
Disagree. They stay out for the remainder of the series.
Possessions or forced to use a time out otherwise they can go down at the end of 3rd down stopping a hurry up team from going on 4th and 1.
Wouldn’t hurt to have another official or replay official watch what happened prior to the “injury” and if he sees the player look over to the sideline and then go down hit’m with an unsportsmanlike conduct flag or like the one guy that was grabbing one leg and the staff was treating the other
 
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#56

VOLINVONORE

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#56
Because you can't punish a team if a player is legitimately injured, that would be absurd. Just make the injured player sit out the rest of the drive.
We were discussing fake injuries. If some one is really injured, by all means you can not penalize a team for a player being injured. But, if he come back in during that possession, mark off 5-10 yards.
 
#58

USCGVOL!!

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#58
All it would take to get real conversation about the issue is one rouge Ref or Umpire witnessing the look to the sideline, then obvious flop or fall to ground. Said official throws flag for unsportsmanlike conduct and backs it up with:
“d) Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player (or players) attempts to focus attention upon himself (or themselves).”
Sunday and or Monday it’s all over ESPN and court of public opinion makes its ruling. Possibly conferences put out some kind of updated ruling. NCAA would most likely just blow it off and say they are going to take a look at it again and let the smoke blow over. [VIDEO=][/VIDEO]
 
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#59
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#59
umps make decisions on severity of foul all the time. Roughing kicker either 5 or 15. They can also follow the injured player off the field and decide the penalty. They will know if it's real or not and apply rule accordingly!
 
#60

VFL-82-JP

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#60
umps make decisions on severity of foul all the time. Roughing kicker either 5 or 15. They can also follow the injured player off the field and decide the penalty. They will know if it's real or not and apply rule accordingly!
I'm a fan of anything that will reduce the fainting goats.

BUT...

...very often, the "injury" (whether actual or feigned) is cramping muscles. Which leave no lasting evidence once you get the charley horse kneaded out. Kid goes to the sideline, drinks some powerade, and is ready to go in the very next play. Whether he really had cramps or not.

So...would be tough for the refs to follow a lad to the sidelines and decide anything important based on what he sees there.

Far better just to add a standard "out for the rest of the series" or "out until the other team substitutes" rule.
 
#61

ptcarter

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#61
I'm a fan of anything that will reduce the fainting goats.

BUT...

...very often, the "injury" (whether actual or feigned) is cramping muscles. Which leave no lasting evidence once you get the charley horse kneaded out. Kid goes to the sideline, drinks some powerade, and is ready to go in the very next play. Whether he really had cramps or not.

So...would be tough for the refs to follow a lad to the sidelines and decide anything important based on what he sees there.

Far better just to add a standard "out for the rest of the series" or "out until the other team substitutes" rule.
That is exactly why there isn't much that can be done here. When it's Ole Miss, we'd all say "don't let that guy back in for a quarter", but if the player happens to be wearing an orange jersey, it's a whole different scenario for the "good guys". You can't trust that the refs are going to be good to us.
Remember this:
1655385292083.png
 
#63

GUNTERSVOL

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#63
Yeah, but will they enforce it
I want nothing to do with any changes that involve officials judgement. It simply needs to be procedural. If the refs have to stop the game for an injury X is what happens. Here is my current thoughts.

Maybe get one free one per half, but lose that one once inside 4 minutes of each half.

Don't want penalty yardage involved. If a defensive player goes down and requires an injury timeout, let the play stand, spot the ball and give the down back to the offense. As for the player(s), if they go down and a stoppage is required, a member of the medical staff must come on the field, and unless a player safety issue, the helmet is to be taken by an official who will afix a tag defining the reentry time for the play, I like 3-5 minutes, and give it to the medical guys who are required to hold the helmet just like they already do for concussion protocol. That calculation will go across any period break, not sure how to deal with OT yet, maybe first OT at end of regulation or including next OT if in OT. If the offense does not substitute, then the only sub allowed is for the injured player. Offensive team has the option to start the clock on the ready or at the snap. This can all be mitigated if the team has and wishes to use a team timeout that would have stopped the clock anyway. Won't eliminate trying to stop momentum, but it will have a cost.

If not 3-5 minutes, it needs to some significant number. Sitting out one play is nothing, since the LB that wanted to get out and replaced by a nickle is the most likely offender. Same for a run stopper needing to be replaced by an edge rusher. Play the safety first card and go big. The player should at least be required to enter the cute little injury tent. Cramps will go down, and some real ones will hop off the field. Real injuries need to be addressed.

Have not really thought through offensive side yet. Maybe applying penalty type clock runoff rules would do, but think sub restrictions on that side should be considered during a running game clock. What better way to stop the clock and get the Hail Mary or short yardage teams out there during short clock situations.. Once again use of a timeout heals the situation.

But take the judgment out of the hands of the officials and replay real time. If the league wants to review suspicious activity after the fact, go for it. But that might need more review time real time and that needs to be avoided.

I am sure I short sighted some issues, but this is a start that I think COULD be fair and effective and all the refs have to do is follow the procedures.
 
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#64

87&91ALUM

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#64
If a player is injured and leaves the field as a result of a "targeting or clipping", basically an un-sportsman like hit by a player of the opposing team, they both go out until they both can return. If a player claims he is injured without contact during the play, i.e. heat stroke, muscle cramp, etc., he cannot return to the game for the duration of the current series of play. Targeting, clipping, and other un-sportsman like hits that seriously injure a player and faking an injury should be dealt with by using a little common sense.
 
#65

i2amavol

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#65
I think I've said it here before, but we need to think outside the box.

If we are easily winning a game, then by all means, just finish the game. However, if we are in a tight game, we need to do exactly what Ole Miss did - except we need to double or triple it. We need the game to last for 6 hours or more. I think by the time we have done this 2 or 3 times, the NCAA will step in and make the change.

If they try to punish us, we can just point to Ole Miss and say we must have caught the injury bug from them.

It is ridiculous that they did nothing after that game. The college football world deserves this, after having a blind eye to it.
 
#66

Iam4utalways

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#66
It’s a low down move to fake an injury, but that’s just one more thing we will have to overcome to get the W.

I expect JH and staff will have Hooker and company ready along with having our defense ready. I’m really looking forward to football season.

Is there anything between now and then?
 
#67

Iam4utalways

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#67
Just make all injured players sit until the next 1st down. I don’t see how anybody could disagree with 1-3 plays.
It’s my understanding the players that were faking injury were really just gassed and needed to sub. Our offense wouldn’t let them sub or we would catch them for a penalty?or short handed. So they faked an injury to allow not just them but anyone else that needs to sub.

Before 3rd down is when you need a timeout to talk it over with your defense. Having to wait a few plays isn’t enough. No mass subbing during an injury timeout by the team with injury, but allow the other team full substitution. With big brother watching, fakes will be easy to spot and flags and disqualifications to follow.
 
#69

GAVol

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#69
The easiest thing might be to just make the offense wait until :25 on the play clock to snap the ball. The offense could still go fast but the defense would know they could run a sub into the game without getting caught by a crazy quick snap. It would only slow us down by a second or two but the defense would know there was a tiny window where they could sub if they wanted without a snap
 
#70

VFL-82-JP

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#70
The easiest thing might be to just make the offense wait until :25 on the play clock to snap the ball. The offense could still go fast but the defense would know they could run a sub into the game without getting caught by a crazy quick snap. It would only slow us down by a second or two but the defense would know there was a tiny window where they could sub if they wanted without a snap
Didn't Josh Heupel or Alex Golesh (or both) once say that the desired tempo is for the ball to be snapped within 3 seconds of the ref putting it in play?

That means 37 seconds on the play clock. That's a heck of a lot faster than 25. With an extra 12 seconds, the defense can assess our offensive formation, can line up properly, can communicate, can get coaching from the sidelines ... all the things we're trying not to give them time to do. Right?
 
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#71

GAVol

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#71
Didn't Josh Heupel or Alex Golesh (or both) once say that the desired tempo is for the ball to be snapped within 3 seconds of the ref putting it in play?

That means 37 seconds on the play clock. That's a heck of a lot faster than 25. With an extra 12 seconds, the defense can assess our offensive formation, can line up properly, can communicate, can get coaching from the sidelines ... all the things we're trying not to give them time to do. Right?
They’d have to change the playclock to NFL style where it resets as soon as the play is over instead of the ready to play signal. I’m being arbitrary with the number; just saying to give the defense a tiny window that they know will be there on every play. Basically just long enough to run a guy onto the field and get set. It’s probably impossible to do, but trying to think of ways to stop the defense from resorting to flopping.
 
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#73

jonnon111

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#73
I'd flop on every play on defense for the entire season. Plus give extra time for our defense to rest. Then I'd flop after every third down we don't convert. Make sure our defense maximizes thier rest to complement our fast paced offense.
I bet if the Vols are the ones egregiously faking injuries it gets addressed mid-season.

Man, that Ole Miss game still pisses me off.
 
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#74

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#74
I'd flop on every play on defense for the entire season. Plus give extra time for our defense to rest. Then I'd flop after every third down we don't convert. Make sure our defense maximizes thier rest to complement our fast paced offense.
I bet if the Vols are the ones egregiously faking injuries it gets addressed mid-season.

Man, that Ole Miss game still pisses me off.
That was my "solution" halfway through that fiasco with Ole Miss. "Why aren't WE doing that..NOW" ??
For the record...NO....I don't like it, but what I like less is a P.O.S. coach exploiting a weakness in the rule book to beat us.
This is really a pretty easy fix but until it bothers Saban...I don't look for any significant rule changes.
 
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#75

GUNTERSVOL

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#75
The easiest thing might be to just make the offense wait until :25 on the play clock to snap the ball. The offense could still go fast but the defense would know they could run a sub into the game without getting caught by a crazy quick snap. It would only slow us down by a second or two but the defense would know there was a tiny window where they could sub if they wanted without a snap
That turns the game from chess to checkers with the ability to move your players around after your opponent's move but before yours. That is the reason I posted my solution up the page. If you stop the game with an injury and don't use a team timeout the offense gets a down back at their option to recreate the clock situation with their next play call. One possible addition would be that a player could be designated as out for the game as he leaves the filed before the clock reaches 2:00 each half, bones do get broken But that could lead to them using designated injury guys, but this would take care of the real injuries. It takes judgement out of the hands of the officials, all they have to judge is was the game stopped for an injury, not whether it is real or not. Just don't advance the down marker. Bet hydration needs are better addressed.
 

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