ESPN’s Love Fest with Kentucky

#80

IPleadInsanity

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#80
There are very few great Xs and Os coaches in college sports. College sports is more about the talent you have (recruiting) than out-scheming opponents. There's a quote from Roy Williams, maybe apocryphal, where he said something to the effect of "I work so hard recruiting kids so I don't have to outcoach anybody."

Since the 09-10 season (9 full seasons), Cal has made the Elite Eight 6 times with one title. Coach K has made it 4 times with 2 titles, Bill Self has made it 5 times with zero titles, Roy Williams has made it 4 times with a title. Among his fellow blue blood coaches, his record is Kentucky is only surpassed by Coach K in terms of titles, and he's actually made more deep runs in the tourney than any other blue blood coach has since 09-10.

Cal is a very polarizing figure and simultaneously overrated and underrated. It does "feel" like Cal should have more than just a single title at Kentucky. However, Self has zero titles at Kansas and Roy Williams has just one title at UNC over the same period. A lot of Kentucky fans will say "But Cal's job is so hard because he has to rebuild the team every year." That's an intentional decision on Cal's part - he shouldn't get credit for working through any adversity that causes. Many other top coaches deal with the same adversity. However, a lot of Cal haters try to say he's clearly behind most other top coaches in some regard, and he just isn't, at least in terms of NCAAT performance.

If you want to talk overrated CBB coaches, I think it is easier to make that argument about Bill Self or Jim Boeheim.
Yeah, how about the adversity of your players actually attending class? How about the adversity of players being required to maintain a high average while attending your practices and traveling to games? The NCAA can crack down on this anytime they want. The 6 month players don't play on a level court.
 
#81

05_never_again

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#81
Yeah, how about the adversity of your players actually attending class? How about the adversity of players being required to maintain a high average while attending your practices and traveling to games? The NCAA can crack down on this anytime they want. The 6 month players don't play on a level court.
Not sure elite basketball players get any more of a break than an elite football player would get.
 
#83

05_never_again

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#83
they don't have to stay eligible much at all. 1 semester, vs at least 5. not counting any summer/EE stuff.
The breaks they get are still the same though. Yes, the football player gets them for multiple academic years. But the shenanigans that go on to keep guys eligible in football and basketball are about the same, I imagine.

If anything, I would think an elite football player who is on the fringes academically would get more chances than a basketball player, purely because they are there longer. A one-and-done basketball player only needs a break for what, a semester and a half? A good football player who has trouble staying eligible might get a break as a freshman, then again as a sophomore, then again as a junior...
 
#85

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#85
I'm not seeing the love fest as much with Kentucky as I am with Duke.

Good grief, they probably have to bleach those microphones after a Duke game from all the slobbering over that team.
 
#86

05_never_again

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#86
They are only in school for a short time, not enough to pass or fail like football players who must attend 3 years with passing grades. Simmons, the 1 rounder from LSU, said he never attended a class there.
There have been football players that, for all intents and purposes, never went to class either. They might be physically present at least some of the time, sure, but grad assistants/tutors do the work. Look at what happened at UNC. Both football and basketball players, along with other athletes from other sports and even non-athletes, were in those classes. It's much easier to stay eligible when you're enrolled in nothing but fake classes.

Also, I'm assuming a basketball player actually does have to pass one semester since they need to be eligible from November to March.
 
#87

McCat

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#87
Ignorance speaks.

Yeah, how about the adversity of your players actually attending class? How about the adversity of players being required to maintain a high average while attending your practices and traveling to games? The NCAA can crack down on this anytime they want. The 6 month players don't play on a level court.
 
#89

McCat

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#89
Yes I agree, you are ignorant if you think those semi-pro players attend classes or are regular student athletes. It’s has nothing to do with college basketball.
So you have proof that they don't? I mean, the height of ignorance is asserting something without knowledge. You're speaking from pure ignorance. To your (non)point:

Who would win the NCAA tournament if academics ruled the day?

Kentucky's academic performance puts lie to criticism

UK basketball team posts perfect APR score for fifth straight year - Coach Cal

But yeah, Kentucky's players don't go to class. Change your name to IPleadIgnorance.
 
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#90

McCat

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#90
And this is a bit dated, but it summarizes Cal's teams at Kentucky as of a few years back:

Kentucky Basketball's Commitment to Academic Excellence
  • 100% of the young men who play for Kentucky have a lifetime scholarship
  • 55 of Coach Cal's players have received SEC Academic Honor Roll honors
  • 18 players have graduated in Coach Cal's nine seasons at Kentucky
  • 3 straight years of finishing in the top 10% of Academic Progress Rate
  • 7 of the last 9 semesters, Kentucky basketball has had a 3.0 or better GPA
  • 3.4 GPA in the spring of 2013 was the highest for all sports at Kentucky
  • 3 players graduated in just three years
  • 0 players who used all of their eligibility at Kentucky failed to graduate
 
#91

IPleadInsanity

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#91
So you have proof that they don't? I mean, the height of ignorance is asserting something without knowledge. You're speaking from pure ignorance. To your (non)point:

Who would win the NCAA tournament if academics ruled the day?

Kentucky's academic performance puts lie to criticism

UK basketball team posts perfect APR score for fifth straight year - Coach Cal

But yeah, Kentucky's players don't go to class. Change your name to IPleadIgnorance.
They don't count the players who leave after 6 months and they are not penalized for those who leave early, which is a mistake by the NCAA. These are the semi-pro players I am talking about.
 
#94

05_never_again

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#94
And this is a bit dated, but it summarizes Cal's teams at Kentucky as of a few years back:

Kentucky Basketball's Commitment to Academic Excellence
  • 100% of the young men who play for Kentucky have a lifetime scholarship
  • 55 of Coach Cal's players have received SEC Academic Honor Roll honors
  • 18 players have graduated in Coach Cal's nine seasons at Kentucky
  • 3 straight years of finishing in the top 10% of Academic Progress Rate
  • 7 of the last 9 semesters, Kentucky basketball has had a 3.0 or better GPA
  • 3.4 GPA in the spring of 2013 was the highest for all sports at Kentucky
  • 3 players graduated in just three years
  • 0 players who used all of their eligibility at Kentucky failed to graduate
I'm sure all of that is true, but it has nothing to do with the point @IPleadInsanity was making. Pretty sure he was taking issue with the one-and-dones.
 
#95

volfanbill

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#95
They’re still leaving in good academic standing. A lot still go back and get their degrees. John Wall goes back each summer. Brow finished his SECOND semester with a 3.7 according to Cal.

This all sounds like sour grapes.
 
#96

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So you have proof that they don't? I mean, the height of ignorance is asserting something without knowledge. You're speaking from pure ignorance. To your (non)point:

Who would win the NCAA tournament if academics ruled the day?

Kentucky's academic performance puts lie to criticism

UK basketball team posts perfect APR score for fifth straight year - Coach Cal

But yeah, Kentucky's players don't go to class. Change your name to IPleadIgnorance.
Doesn't say what you think it says. one of your articles even proves the point

The APR has a lot of flaws, but one of its values is in punishing any program that has an overabundance of one-semester players — guys who show up, pass a few fall credits and then not even go to class in the spring. The APR mandates than any player departing for the NBA Draft must do so while in good academic standing or be damaging to the program’s cumulative score — and that means completing a semester once the player is enrolled.
they only have to pass one semester, then they can be done without hurting the APR.
 
#97

LouderVol

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#97
They’re still leaving in good academic standing. A lot still go back and get their degrees. John Wall goes back each summer. Brow finished his SECOND semester with a 3.7 according to Cal.

This all sounds like sour grapes.
the summer when he has no other commitments? yeah that's the same as playing during the school year. I mean good for them, but lets not pretend its the same thing as the other student athletes.
 
#98

volfanbill

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#98
the summer when he has no other commitments? yeah that's the same as playing during the school year. I mean good for them, but lets not pretend its the same thing as the other student athletes.
Every student athlete is different in every sport, every situation. It’s just a dumb argument from the outset. No school would turn down these players, no rules are being broken, and the athletes are doing what they’re supposed to do. Tennessee is the best program in the country and y’all wanna bi*** and moan about Kentucky’s method for also being successful.
 
#99

05_never_again

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#99
Doesn't say what you think it says. one of your articles even proves the point



they only have to pass one semester, then they can be done without hurting the APR.
Are there any intra-semester requirements that must be met in order to stay eligible? Or is a student only "evaluated" for eligibility at the end of a semester?

For example, take a one-and-done basketball player. He has to make the minimum GPA for the fall semester so he can continue to play the rest of the season. However, if he's leaving for the NBA after the season, is there anything that says he has to at least attend class, take tests, turn stuff in, etc. during that spring semester?

Or can he just cut class entirely for that entire spring semester, since he doesn't need to be eligible at the end of that semester anyway?
 

VOLnMiami

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I'm not seeing the love fest as much with Kentucky as I am with Duke.

Good grief, they probably have to bleach those microphones after a Duke game from all the slobbering over that team.
I know right?...It is sickening listening to these guys talk and brag about them...I mean they are a good team but they are talking like they are the greatest thing since sliced bread....Little do they know we would whip that azz.
 

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