Derrick Walker challenged to be the player Rick Barnes Recruited

#30

cncchris33

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#30
Don't think he has a low attrition rate but the rest I'll buy. Didn't realize how many til Thunder started listing them yesterday. But of course, most weren't his recruits.
He has had two players leave the program that he either didn’t recruit, or that he scrambled to recruit immediately after he took the job.

2015: Kasongo and Phillips were in his first class that he partially inherited, and partially scrambled to recruit last minute. Phillips was already signed when Barnes took the job. Kasongo was a hurried addition late in the spring period.

2016: Kwe Parker transferred

2017: Chris Darrington transferred

Parker is the only one Barnes recruited for the long haul and that seemingly transferred because he was unhappy for whatever reason. Darrington transferred closer to home for personal reasons (best friend was shot and killed and his mom was sick).

Without counting DJ Burns or the 2019 kids, Barnes has signed 15 total kids including Schofield and Phillips who have played at least one full season under him. I wouldn’t call 2 out of 15 signees a high turnover rate, especially in this day and age of instant gratification.
 
#32

cardvolfan

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#32
He's definitely lost weight. So much so and he seems a bit less energetic that I had wondered if he might have had mononucleosis or something to lose that much. Medical issues are kept so much quieter these day.

Loved his second half dunk versus Georgia. I bet we see more of that going forward. Burns and Walker are going to elevate each other's games going against each other in workouts over the next couple of years.

We don't get to see it much since in his limited minutes he's usually posting up down low, but he's a really good passer. He's a perfect fit for this system. Unselfish. Smart.
Unfortunately, he's commited too many turnovers. He's better than that, too. I wondered if somehow his obvious weight loss had adversely affected his game, either physically or mentally.
 
#33

cardvolfan

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#33
If Rick Barnes challenges someone, they usually respond. It happened with Grant his Freshman year, happened with Admiral in Barnes’ first year, happened with Kyle last year, happened with Bone since he got here. Notice a trend? Those are the top contributors and they all got challenged by Barnes at some point. Barnes knows what he’s doing.
Very good analysis. You are spot-on.
 
#34

cardvolfan

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#34
Barnes knows who can take being challenged and that is the type player he recruits. No surprise that so many respond and that he has a low attrition rate.
He has an amazing knack of pushing his players to an appropriate level. In response, after realizing his intent, players love him to death because they realize his goal of making them the best they can be. No better evidence than the maturation of Jordan Bone.
 
#35

bleedingTNorange

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#35
He has had two players leave the program that he either didn’t recruit, or that he scrambled to recruit immediately after he took the job.

2015: Kasongo and Phillips were in his first class that he partially inherited, and partially scrambled to recruit last minute. Phillips was already signed when Barnes took the job. Kasongo was a hurried addition late in the spring period.

2016: Kwe Parker transferred

2017: Chris Darrington transferred

Parker is the only one Barnes recruited for the long haul and that seemingly transferred because he was unhappy for whatever reason. Darrington transferred closer to home for personal reasons (best friend was shot and killed and his mom was sick).

Without counting DJ Burns or the 2019 kids, Barnes has signed 15 total kids including Schofield and Phillips who have played at least one full season under him. I wouldn’t call 2 out of 15 signees a high turnover rate, especially in this day and age of instant gratification.
Also worth mentioning on Parker he was committed to Rutgers iirc, when he decommited Tennessee came in late as he was a teammate of Tennessee commit Jalen Johnson so he may not have been someone that Tennessee had actually been recruiting very long.
 
#36
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#36
He has had two players leave the program that he either didn’t recruit, or that he scrambled to recruit immediately after he took the job.

2015: Kasongo and Phillips were in his first class that he partially inherited, and partially scrambled to recruit last minute. Phillips was already signed when Barnes took the job. Kasongo was a hurried addition late in the spring period.

2016: Kwe Parker transferred

2017: Chris Darrington transferred

Parker is the only one Barnes recruited for the long haul and that seemingly transferred because he was unhappy for whatever reason. Darrington transferred closer to home for personal reasons (best friend was shot and killed and his mom was sick).

Without counting DJ Burns or the 2019 kids, Barnes has signed 15 total kids including Schofield and Phillips who have played at least one full season under him. I wouldn’t call 2 out of 15 signees a high turnover rate, especially in this day and age of instant gratification.
Attrition isn't limited to just a coach's own recruits. McGhee, Owens, and Carmichael didn't want to play for him and Mostella didn't want to follow his rules.
 
#37

cncchris33

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#37
Attrition isn't limited to just a coach's own recruits. McGhee, Owens, and Carmichael didn't want to play for him and Mostella didn't want to follow his rules.
For the purposes of this particular discussion it absolutely matters. Mostella was dismissed, so not sure how he even fits into the conversation to begin with. Owens and Carmichael didn’t give Barnes a chance. That’s not on him. McGhee hung around for a cup of coffee. Barnes didn’t ask for any of those guys, and they didn’t ask for him.

Point remains, Barnes has a low attrition rate for guys he recruited and signed, and that likely speaks to their toughness and resolve when challenged by their coach. Traits I’m sure he looks for in a recruit’s profile.
 
#38
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#38
For the purposes of this particular discussion it absolutely matters. Mostella was dismissed, so not sure how he even fits into the conversation to begin with. Owens and Carmichael didn’t give Barnes a chance. That’s not on him. McGhee hung around for a cup of coffee. Barnes didn’t ask for any of those guys, and they didn’t ask for him.

Point remains, Barnes has a low attrition rate for guys he recruited and signed, and that likely speaks to their toughness and resolve when challenged by their coach. Traits I’m sure he looks for in a recruit’s profile.
Wasn't the comment that you took issue with that Barnes doesn't have a low attrition rate? It's certainly not low unless the goal posts are moved to only include those that he recruited.

Owens
Carmichael
McGhee
Phillips
Mostella
Darrington
Kasongo
Parker
 
#39

cncchris33

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#39
Wasn't the comment that you took issue with that Barnes doesn't have a low attrition rate? It's certainly not low unless the goal posts are moved to only include those that he recruited.

Owens
Carmichael
McGhee
Phillips
Mostella
Darrington
Kasongo
Parker
I clearly set the parameters for what I considered to be a fair judgement of attrition under Barnes; guys he recruited for more than a couple weeks that have played at least one season for him. Two out of 15 signees fit that bill. Six of the eight you listed don’t fit those parameters. I won’t fault Barnes for Mostella being dismissed, I won’t fault him for Owens and Carmichael leaving before giving him a chance, I won’t fault him for having to take a risk on a guy like Kasongo late in the signing period, and I won’t fault him for honoring Phillips’ scholarship that the previous coach offered.

Feel free to set your own parameters for how you want to attribute attrition. But, there is clearly a different level of mental toughness in those he recruited for the long haul and signed than those that he inherited or scrambled to sign at the last minute when he took the job. That really isn’t debatable, and I guarantee it is a trait he looks for in his players.
 
#40
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#40
I clearly set the parameters for what I considered to be a fair judgement of attrition under Barnes; guys he recruited for more than a couple weeks that have played at least one season for him. Two out of 15 signees fit that bill. Six of the eight you listed don’t fit those parameters. I won’t fault Barnes for Mostella being dismissed, I won’t fault him for Owens and Carmichael leaving before giving him a chance, I won’t fault him for having to take a risk on a guy like Kasongo late in the signing period, and I won’t fault him for honoring Phillips’ scholarship that the previous coach offered.

Feel free to set your own parameters for how you want to attribute attrition. But, there is clearly a different level of mental toughness in those he recruited for the long haul and signed than those that he inherited or scrambled to sign at the last minute when he took the job. That really isn’t debatable, and I guarantee it is a trait he looks for in his players.
I didn't see your parameters in calban's comment:

Don't think he has a low attrition rate but the rest I'll buy. Didn't realize how many til Thunder started listing them yesterday. But of course, most weren't his recruits.
 
#41

cncchris33

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#41
I didn't see your parameters in calban's comment:

Don't think he has a low attrition rate but the rest I'll buy. Didn't realize how many til Thunder started listing them yesterday. But of course, most weren't his recruits.
He has had two players leave the program that he either didn’t recruit, or that he scrambled to recruit immediately after he took the job.

2015: Kasongo and Phillips were in his first class that he partially inherited, and partially scrambled to recruit last minute. Phillips was already signed when Barnes took the job. Kasongo was a hurried addition late in the spring period.

2016: Kwe Parker transferred

2017: Chris Darrington transferred

Parker is the only one Barnes recruited for the long haul and that seemingly transferred because he was unhappy for whatever reason. Darrington transferred closer to home for personal reasons (best friend was shot and killed and his mom was sick).

Without counting DJ Burns or the 2019 kids, Barnes has signed 15 total kids including Schofield and Phillips who have played at least one full season under him. I wouldn’t call 2 out of 15 signees a high turnover rate, especially in this day and age of instant gratification.
Why would my parameters be in his comment?

Clearly, you are just searching for an argument at this point.
 
#42

calban

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#42
Really didn't mean the attrition rate as a knock on Barnes. that 's just a part of the process when a new coach comes in. And I agree a lot of it has to do with the difference in the mental toughness he looks for in the guys he recruits. Face it. Barnes coaches hard and the guys that really want to be their own best selves are the ones that thrive on it.
 
#44

zjcvols

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#44
The only guy I think that would have been helpful would be Owens. Because then we could have RS Kyle and have both of them for a couple years.
 
#48

cncchris33

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#48
I'm not buying your argument. Clearly the attrition hasn't been low. Nobody is arguing why or if it was good for the program. Well other than you.
Well, that's just fine. I'm not selling it. Like I said, you are just looking to argue for argument's sake. Imagine my surprise. Like I also said, define the attrition how you see fit. I never said your opinion was wrong. I just believe there are uncontrollable circumstances surrounding 6 of the 8 examples and pointed out that excluding the situations Barnes had no control over, he's only had two guys out of 15 leave the program. I find that pretty impressive. You believe we are a personnel turnover factory. Life goes on.
 
#49
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#49
Well, that's just fine. I'm not selling it. Like I said, you are just looking to argue for argument's sake. Imagine my surprise. Like I also said, define the attrition how you see fit. I never said your opinion was wrong. I just believe there are uncontrollable circumstances surrounding 6 of the 8 examples and pointed out that excluding the situations Barnes had no control over, he's only had two guys out of 15 leave the program. I find that pretty impressive. You believe we are a personnel turnover factory. Life goes on.
I'm not buying this argument either.
 

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